Game Thread The Clone Saga: A Spider-Man Mafia 3

[Captan_Lunch]

It was talked about, in the trial, that a second lynch on CL would possibly keep him down. Prior to him, though, I'd rather see Gaunt or PK gone.

I was not under oath. In fact it's even more likely a lie. I can come back indefinitely always.

 

[15377]

No, I'm asserting that SMS possessing a pro-town win condition by definition precludes him from constituting a (necessary) mechanical threat.

In other words: The guy who can win with town is less mechanically threatening than the guy who is mechanically required to kill town's best ally.

Per his own words he constitutes a mechanical threat until such time as he doesn't. For town to win he either needs to stop, which nobody has an idea on instigating, or he needs to be handled in the usual methods. You've yet to argue why town needs to wait around for an event that literally may never trigger, see OPs for role PMs being allowed to be misleading, nor have you established a reason to let a player who has yet to slip his threat status be allowed to take whatever actions he wants, especially considering at any point he can decide "I don't feel like winning with town anymore".

As for funnier the only thing that matters is if he's considered a mechanical threat, as he doesn't have a nifty second win con per his own admission. If he's a mechanical threat he ABSOLUTELY has to be put down. His deciding he is going to tell the town he is going to play towards their ends doesn't change that.

As for goblins, their status as a lyncher doesn't make them a mechanical threat to town.

@minpin, I'm still on standard spider win con. I'll let you know when I change it.

 

[Captan_Lunch]

I agree with numbers logic about the mechanical threat that as he's also not winning with maf.

Unvote
Vote: SMS

 

[Skystone]

Per his own words he constitutes a mechanical threat until such time as he doesn't.

Yes. That last word is important.

You've yet to argue why town needs to wait around for an event that literally may never trigger, see OPs for role PMs being allowed to be misleading, nor have you established a reason to let a player who has yet to slip his threat status be allowed to take whatever actions he wants, especially considering at any point he can decide "I don't feel like winning with town anymore".

Leaving aside the obvious fact that SMS has been topical since Day 1 (and, thus, that the issues you mention have long since been discussed), I have so far been specifically addressing your erroneous claims with regard to mechanical threat. I suppose you're welcome to move the goalposts, and I'm happy to score in the new ones too if you need me to reprise the mountain of my earlier thoughts. But don't mistake our discussion for an absence of salient points in those other domains.

As for funnier the only thing that matters is if he's considered a mechanical threat, as he doesn't have a nifty second win con per his own admission. If he's a mechanical threat he ABSOLUTELY has to be put down. His deciding he is going to tell the town he is going to play towards their ends doesn't change that.

I mean, if your argument boils down to "scum alignment is scum alignment," then...yes? That's obviously true. But I'm trying to work from the (apparently tenuous?) assumption that we're collectively operating above the 'put foot in front of other foot to walk' level of discussion. We don't intrinsically care about the formal designation of alignment as much as we care about the actual, functional impact that a given role and person will have on the game, i.e. town wins by killing the stuff that kills town and so on and so forth. I'll even lay it out for you:

Skystone's Handy Guide to Assessing Scum Threat Level
(Threat level: Example)

1) High: Kills town.
2) Med/Med-High: Wins by killing town's most powerful role.
3) Med: Technically scum, but is armed with ennui and inflatable hammers.
4) Low: Is visibly committed to and mechanically able to win as town.

I'm still on standard spider win con. I'll let you know when I change it.

Standard Spider win-con (assuming a standard definition of standard) is either "you win by being alive" (i.e. self) or "you win by being Spider-Man + [redacted]."

The first one is amusing given your own insinuations about my self-alignment. The other is patently untrue given your willingness to sell Spider-Man out to Freddeh. So either you're self-aligned, or you're lying, or you're aiming to become the real Spider-Man after gutting the original. The last one, of course, still pits you against the good goblin as likely as not.

...But all of this ignores the fact that we put to rest every one of your objections by vote-pressuring Freddeh into revealing a (sufficiently convincing) win-con, then reassessing or re-ranking everyone accordingly.

 

[Aaarrrgh]

I'm fine with either lynching CL or pressuring Freddeh. Not sure which one to prioritize, though. So I'll do this, but I'm happy to switch if people want to:

Vote: CL

 

[Captan_Lunch]

Is your vote hurting me Aaarrrgh?

 

[Captan_Lunch]

Im not being roleblocked am I?

 

[Aaarrrgh]

As far as I know, my vote is just a vote. There shouldn't be any special effects connected to it.

 

[Zinger2099]

DAY 5: Second Vote Count

Freddeh (2): Ragnarokio, Spiritual Mask Salesman
Captan Lunch (2): Tevish Szat, Aaarrrgh
funnier6 (1): 15377
Paranoid King (1): funnier6
Storm (1): Zinger2099
Killjoy (0.5): Freddeh

Not Voting (12): Morbid Minish, Rubik, Storm, Silverfish, Captan Lunch, Hapi, KingofDominaria, Killjoy, Paranoid King, Mellow Ezlo, ExLight, Skystone
Voteblocked (1): funnier6

With 22 available votes, it takes 12 votes to reach a Majority.

The Day 5 Deadline is set for August 9th at 7:15 AM EST. Click here for an accurate countdown.

Spoiler: Vote Log

1. Spider-Man attempts to vote Zinger2099, but, as we've seen before, votes against the Mod don't count
2. funnier6 votes Freddeh [Note: This vote was counted, at the time it was cast]
3. Freddeh votes Killjoy
4. Paranoid King votes Paranoid King; then votes funnier6 in the same post
5. ExLight votes Freddeh
6. 15377 votes funnier6
7. Ragnarokio votes Freddeh
8. Tevish Szat votes Captan Lunch
9. First Vote Count Tallied
10. funnier votes Paranoid King
11. Paranoid King unvotes [404: No link found]
12. ExLight unvotes; votes Mellow Ezlo
13. Spider-Man again wastes a vote trying to take down the unbeatable Mod, will he never learn?
14. Storm follows the Spidey trend of trying to vote the Mod, but hey, look! It still didn't work!
15. Killjoy's turn... *Yawn*
16. Skystone votes Mellow Ezlo, and the Mod says: "Finally, something interesting that isn't a futile attempt to vote me"
17. ExLight unvotes
18. Skystone unvotes
19. Zinger2099 ModVotes Storm for being in violation of rules 1.1, 1.2, and 1.9—arguably the three most important rules of the game...
20. Spiritual Mask Salesman votes Freddeh
21. Aaarrrgh votes Captan Lunch
22. Second Vote Count Tallied

 

[funnier6]

Vote: Numbers


Still think Fred is the best lynch today.

 

[funnier6]

Vote: Freddeh

 

[ExLight]

someone roleblocked me

 

[15377]

We don't intrinsically care about the formal designation of alignment as much as we care about the actual, functional impact that a given role and person will have on the game, i.e. town wins by killing the stuff that kills town and so on and so forth.

I guess I will have to explain how win cons work. You see when a moddy makes a game he creates mechanical threats to town. These are roles labeled as such so that when the town win does game state checks, it'll know if the game can end or not. So any town that knowingly ignores dealing with players with this designation, regardless of what their alignment designation is, are town that are actively NOT pursuing their win con. This is, has been, and continues to be the entire discussion revolving around funsies, sms, Fred, and the goblins. I'm not the one moving goal posts. You're the one constantly trying to reframe the situation because you have no factual arguments to make against what I've laid out. This is simple to note when an observer watches your progression. Initially you simply tried to argue the two didn't claim to be mechanical threats. I pointed out where they did. Then you tried to argue the goblins were just as big a threat (funny I thought you just said you weren't basing things on alignment designation, guess that was a lie); I pointed out how gaunts kill is a threat while the rest haven't shown to be such based on the wording of the goblin win con (also funny that the argument you are currently trying to make is that I've deviated from game impact lowering priority despite that). Now you're trying to argue mechanical threats are irrelevant because reasons. They aren't. For all you know town could end this game immediately by resolving sms, funnier, and CL. There's a reason why town always removes the known threats before chasing maybes. What I'm speaking on is basic game strategy. It's not some new wild theory.

But as I said before, I'm not gonna fault you for the distraction. You're not claiming to be town or work in towns best interest.

 

[KingofDominaria]

Is it possible to fall for JD all over again? It's like deja'vu, only I'm not on the receiving end.

 

[ExLight]

Is it possible to fall for JD all over again? It's like deja'vu, only I'm not on the receiving end.

yikes