A ZD Timeline Project

[Zemen]

How the hell can the Triforce be the Light Force, though? You're saying that the Minish gave Zelda the Triforce?

I agree with this. It makes no sense for the Light Force to be the Triforce. We know, from OoT, that the Goddesses created the world and then bestowed the Triforce upon that world to rule the land. The Royal Family protected it, and that is the origins of the Triforce. The origins of the Light Force are that the picori supposedly came from the sky and brought the Light Force with them. These are 2, completely stories. They are too different for the items to be the same.

 

[Caleb, Of Asui]

It helps when virtually everyone agrees on the same thing (and the one person who doesn't support it also doesn't support the other). I expected a little bit more supporting the Minish-Cap-Not-First argument, but I guess not.

TMC Discussion Closed.

12. The Minish Cap
- Discussion Closed -
Conclusion: Many persuasions toward TMC as an introduction to the Zelda universe.

Order so Far:
............../--TWW
TMC--OoT
..............\MM--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA

13. Twilight Princess
- Current Discussion -

First Possibility:
............../--TWW
TMC--OoT
..............\MM--TP--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA

Second Possibility:
............../--TWW
TMC--OoT
..............\MM--FS/FSA--TP--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA

Third Possibility:
............../--TWW
TMC--OoT
..............\MM--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA--TP--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA

Fourth Possibility:
............../--TWW
TMC--OoT
..............\MM--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--TP--OoS/OoA

Fifth Possibility:
............../--TWW
TMC--OoT
..............\MM--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA--TP

IMPORTANT: This will be the LAST DISCUSSION as part of a ZD Timeline Project (PH placement is implied). Make it a good one.

 

[Hayzer]

Possibility one.

Aonuma stated that TP was parallel to WW in the timeline, which would push it a hundred/hundreds of years after OoT on the CT. SInce Ganondorf appears in this game, and not Ganon, it must take place before FSA to make any sense. Thus it would be after MM but before FS (which happens right before FSA). Also, we find out what happens to Ganondorf after the events of CT OoT. He gets executed. Also note that whether or not Ganondorf still touched the Triforce on the CT, the Triforce is still split in the game. What happens to it afterward can only be speculation.

So, #1.

 

[MrMosley]

I'll go ahead and say my choice is #1 as well. Hayzer pretty much summed it up, from Aonuma's quote about the game, to its many references. I'll just list some of these references, like I have before.

* Ganondorf's excecution scene is shown as a backstory-type cutscene during TP. This was explained by Aonuma to have been a result of Link telling Zelda about Ganondorf's evil plans when he went back to his child time in OoT.

* The Sages have not changed their form. They all appear pretty generic, aside from each bearing an image of one of the Medallions (obviously respective to their location). In WW, we see the images of the Awakened Sages on the stained-glass windows of Hyrule Castle. This is obviously because they were awakened on the AT, and were not on the CT.

* Aonuma laid it out pretty obviously. He said TP was a parallel to WW, which we know and have been told of its placement as well.

 

[angelkid]

I'm also agreeing with option 1. It's kind of boring seeing as how this is the last game, but I have to agree with TP being parallel to WW, because Anouma said so. Also, this is the only place on the timeline that Ganondorf could fit in, other than between WW and OoT, however, Anouma's quote contradicts this. Also as DL01 pointed out, the sages aren't awakened which means that it has to be on the CT as the sages ARE awakened on the AT.

 

[Megamannt125]

I may be late in saying this, but here's something I think we should consider when placing OOX after AoL, in OOX, Link is introduced to Impa, but in LoZ and AoL, he already knows her.

I'll go ahead and say my choice is #1 as well. Hayzer pretty much summed it up, from Aonuma's quote about the game, to its many references. I'll just list some of these references, like I have before.

* Ganondorf's excecution scene is shown as a backstory-type cutscene during TP. This was explained by Aonuma to have been a result of Link telling Zelda about Ganondorf's evil plans when he went back to his child time in OoT.

* The Sages have not changed their form. They all appear pretty generic, aside from each bearing an image of one of the Medallions (obviously respective to their location). In WW, we see the images of the Awakened Sages on the stained-glass windows of Hyrule Castle. This is obviously because they were awakened on the AT, and were not on the CT.

* Aonuma laid it out pretty obviously. He said TP was a parallel to WW, which we know and have been told of its placement as well.

Actually, Aonuma said Link and Zelda just left Ganondorf alone, he did something outrageous, and was to be executed, and that the scene in TP takes place several years after OOT.

 

[angelkid]

Actually, Aonuma said Link and Zelda just left Ganondorf alone, he did something outrageous, and was to be executed, and that the scene in TP takes place several years after OOT.

DarkLink01 is right. However, so are you. Link goes back and tells Zelda that Ganondorf only gets his power once Link uses the spiritual stones to open the door of time. They then decide to do nothing and leave him alone. Then he goes and does something outrageous and is sentenced to death.

 

[Pinecove]

TMC Discussion Closed.

12. The Minish Cap
- Discussion Closed -
Conclusion: Many persuasions toward TMC as an introduction to the Zelda universe.

Order so Far:
............../--TWW
TMC--OoT
..............\MM--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA

13. Twilight Princess
- Current Discussion -

First Possibility:
............../--TWW
TMC--OoT
..............\MM--TP--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA

Second Possibility:
............../--TWW
TMC--OoT
..............\MM--FS/FSA--TP--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA

Third Possibility:
............../--TWW
TMC--OoT
..............\MM--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA--TP--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA

Fourth Possibility:
............../--TWW
TMC--OoT
..............\MM--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--TP--OoS/OoA

Fifth Possibility:
............../--TWW
TMC--OoT
..............\MM--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA--TP

IMPORTANT: This will be the LAST DISCUSSION as part of a ZD Timeline Project (PH placement is implied). Make it a good one.

Wow that's baised.

How come some orders like:

/TWW/PH-LoZ/AoL-OoS/OoA
OoT
\MM-TP-FS/FSA-AlttP/LA

or

/TWW/PH-LoZ/AoL-OoS/OoA-TMC-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA
OoT
\MM-TP

Aren't on there?

Edit: If I had to choose though, it would definately be option 1.

 

[Erimgard]

Pinecove, did you read the whole thread?
Basically, he introduced the games one by one (though some out of order, and discussing old games in light of new evidence in new games wasn't apparently allowed) and after each game we debated, and Caleb decided what the general consensus was. There was no vote or anything. Just a discussion, and Caleb's seal of approval.

Not exactly a true community project, but, meh, whatever. It was okay.

 

[Caleb, Of Asui]

Yeah, Twilight Princess's placement can't really have such an epic final discussion. It seems that we're finding with all the discussions, especially more recent ones, that it can really only go one way. The only thing that really seems to get in the way is the Miyamoto Order. If Miyamoto had never said any of that, chances are that essentially the entire Zelda community would agree that the order we've come up with is Nintendo's official order.

TP Discussion Closed

13. Twilight Princess
- Discussion Closed -
Conclusion: The state of Ganon kind of backs this game into a corner. A very easy placement.

Order so Far:
............../--TWW
TMC--OoT
..............\MM--TP--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA

14. Phantom Hourglass
- Skipped -
Reason: Obviously a direct sequel to The Wind Waker.

Order so Far:
............../--TWW/PH
TMC--OoT
..............\MM--TP--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA

15. Spirit Tracks
- Pre-Release Placement -
Nintendo confirmed this as a distant sequel to TWW/PH.

Order so Far:
............../--TWW/PH--ST
TMC--OoT
..............\MM--TP--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA

 

[Caleb, Of Asui]

A ZD Timeline Project - Summary

FINAL CONCLUSION:
............../--TWW/PH--ST
TMC--OoT
..............\MM--TP--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA

All Discussions Closed.

PROCESS:
1. The Legend of Zelda
- Skipped -
Reason: Being the first game, there are no other games to compare it to.
Order so Far: LoZ

2. The Adventure of Link
- Skipped -
Reason: It is obviously a direct sequel to The Legend of Zelda.
Order so Far: LoZ/AoL

3. A Link to the Past
- Discussion Closed -
Conclusion: It was meant to explain the backstory before The Legend of Zelda.
Order so Far: ALttP--LoZ/AoL

4. Link's Awakening
- Skipped -
Reason: It is obviously a direct sequel to A Link to the Past. There is some small debate over whether or not it actually is, but it doesn't effect much to be worth adressing.
Order so Far: ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL

5. Ocarina of Time
- Skipped -
Reason: It is obviously before everything so far. Nobody's about to say otherwise.
Order so Far: OoT--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL

5.1 Miyamoto Order
- Discussion Closed -
Details: We hit a snag when the creator came out with an order contradicting what we already have. He says OoT--LoZ/AoL--ALttP, with LA going anywhere.
Conclusion: Ocarina of Time was originally meant as the Seal War, with The Legend of Zelda as a lesser part of it, explaining what happens to the Triforce. At least, this was true at the time.
Order so Far: OoT--LoZ/AoL--ALttP/LA

6. Majora's Mask
- Skipped -
Reason: It is obviously a direct sequel to Ocarina of Time.
Order so Far: OoT/MM--LoZ/AoL--ALttP/LA

7-8. Oracle of Seasons and Ages
- Discussion Closed -
Conclusion: They were originally planned as remakes of the original two, with expanded story. Plans were changed and they're still no longer remakes, but it still stands that it continues after the story of The Adventure of Link, and doesn't fit quite so well anywhere else.
Order so Far: OoT/MM--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA--ALttP/LA

9. Four Swords
- Skipped Temporarily -
Reason: Four Swords was essentially implacable at this point, and not necessarily canon, but will be both pretty soon.

BIG NOTE: This is the complicated part where the split comes in. Even though it was only a theory at the time, we are going to go with it because it has since been confirmed by Nintendo and, after all, the theory DID exist at the time.

10. The Wind Waker
- Skipped -
Reason: The prospect of the split timeline places this game for us.

Order so Far:
....../--TWW
OoT
......\MM--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA--ALttP/LA

10.5 Miyamoto Order Revisited
- Discussion Closed -
Details: The Legend of Zelda and The Adventure of Link were placed to coincide with the Miyamoto Order because it "bridges" the Seal War in Ocarina of Time to A Link to the Past (exact details are a little complicated); however, The Wind Waker makes it clear that Nintendo no longer intends for Ocarina of Time to be the Seal War. We no longer need the first two games to be a "bridge," so do we follow all existing evidence and move them back to where they originally belonged? (Probably yes.)
Conclusion: Yes, The Wind Waker definitely debunks the Miyamoto Order.

Order so Far:
....../--TWW
OoT
......\MM--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA

11. Four Swords Adventures
- Discussion Closed -
Conclusion: It is definitely supposed to lead up to ALttP, whether or not you consider it the SW itself.

Order so Far:
....../--TWW
OoT
......\MM--FSA--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA

11.09 Four Swords Placement
- Discussion Closed -
Details: Four Swords Adventures tells us enough that Four Swords can be placed. The question is, is FSA a direct sequel?
Conclusion: Yes, it is a direct sequel.

Order so Far:
....../--TWW
OoT
......\MM--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA

12. The Minish Cap
- Discussion Closed -
Conclusion: Many persuasions toward TMC as an introduction to the Zelda universe.

Order so Far:
............../--TWW
TMC--OoT
..............\MM--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA

13. Twilight Princess
- Discussion Closed -
Conclusion: The state of Ganon kind of backs this game into a corner. A very easy placement.

Order so Far:
............../--TWW
TMC--OoT
..............\MM--TP--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA

14. Phantom Hourglass
- Skipped -
Reason: Obviously a direct sequel to The Wind Waker.

Order so Far:
............../--TWW/PH
TMC--OoT
..............\MM--TP--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA

15. Spirit Tracks
- Pre-Release Placement -
Nintendo confirmed this as a distant sequel to TWW/PH.

Order so Far:
............../--TWW/PH--ST
TMC--OoT
..............\MM--TP--FS/FSA--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA

 

[sign of table]

Details: The Legend of Zelda and The Adventure of Link were placed to coincide with the Miyamoto Order because it "bridges" the Seal War in Ocarina of Time to A Link to the Past (exact details are a little complicated); however, The Wind Waker makes it clear that Nintendo no longer intends for Ocarina of Time to be the Seal War. We no longer need the first two games to be a "bridge," so do we follow all existing evidence and move them back to where they originally belonged? (Probably yes.)
Conclusion: Yes, The Wind Waker definitely debunks the Miyamoto Order.

That's a non-sequiter if I've ever seen one. Even if you think that OoT can't still be the SW, nothing about TWW screws up the Miyamoto order.

I also dislike how TWW discussion was skipped, and no one seemed to look at the possibility of games after TWW.

 

[Zemen]

That's a non-sequiter if I've ever seen one. Even if you think that OoT can't still be the SW, nothing about TWW screws up the Miyamoto order.

I also dislike how TWW discussion was skipped, and no one seemed to look at the possibility of games after TWW.

Because we know where WW goes as it was confirmed so it didn't need to be confirmed and because the general theory was the theory that was brought out. The point of the thread was to come up with a general timeline idea and whether you agree with it or not, this is what the majority of us discussed and came up with. No one is forcing you to believe this timeline.

 

[sign of table]

I wasn't talking about the TWW placement itself. That's clear enough. I'm talking about the fact that I didn't see any discussion about games taking place after TWW.

It's a very similar timeline to the one I used to follow (I still think it's quite likely, I just don't place LoZ/AoL-OoX(/LA) because I'm having trouble deciding CT or AT placements). It's not at all that it's a bad timeline. It's that there didn't seem to be any attempts to look at all the different possibilities (such as games on the AT).

 

[Zemen]

I wasn't talking about the TWW placement itself. That's clear enough. I'm talking about the fact that I didn't see any discussion about games taking place after TWW.

It's a very similar timeline to the one I used to follow (I still think it's quite likely, I just don't place LoZ/AoL-OoX(/LA) because I'm having trouble deciding CT or AT placements). It's not at all that it's a bad timeline. It's that there didn't seem to be any attempts to look at all the different possibilities (such as games on the AT).

Most likely because the majority don't believe any games go there. The point of the thread was to discuss what we think the timeline is on a game to game basis, not to discuss what we DON'T think the timeline is. That would be counter-productive.