A ZD Timeline Project

[MrMosley]

^Then would you say that TWW referencing things that happened in MM is evidence enough to disprove the split timeline?

I'm not sure. I haven't ever seen this quote. I know you keep mentioning it a bunch of times, but it would be helpful if you would actually show us the exact quote.

Also, I don't recall the quote in TWW saying that the islands are Hyrule's mountaintops. Can you show me the quote?

Daphnes (King of Hyrule)
Hyrule was turned into a world of shadows by Ganon, who sought to obtain the power of the gods for his own evil ends. My power alone could not stop the fiend, and our only choice was to leave the fate of the kingdom in the hands of the gods... When the gods heard our pleas, they chose to seal away not only Ganon, but Hyrule itself... and so, with a torrential downpour of rains from the heavens... Our fair kingdom was soon buried beneath the waves, forgotten at the bottom of the ocean. Yet all was not lost. For the gods knew that to seal away the people with the kingdom would be to grant Ganon's wish for the destruction of the land. So, before the sealing of the kingdom, the gods chose those who would build a new country and commanded them to take refuge on the mountaintops.

Frankly, though, I don't give a damn about geography. It's so literal, it just doesn't work. And it changes so often it's impossible to make a good geographic comparison. And it has NOTHING at all to do with the story of the game.

As I said, general geographical locations aren't very helpful or very important sense they vary so much. But when you take a very specific location, and name an island specifically after it because THAT island is supposed to be the top of that location, then it becomes important. The more specific geography gets in the games, the more important it is. This piece of geography is more important than say, two lakes both named Lake Hylia, or Hyrule Field in old Hyrule and a potential Hyrule Field in a new Hyrule.

Also, if names of islands and such are oh-so very important, what about the Maze Island in PH? Remember, there's a maze island in AoL.

"Maze Island" is a general name. Plus, we already know that PH isn't set in Hyrule. That holds no importance. But saying that: Here's a country, buried beneath the sea, where the people now live on the tops of its mountains, one of which is now called Spectacle Island, named after Spectacle Rock, a place in the buried country... Is much more important.

 

[Zemen]

I'm not sure. I haven't ever seen this quote. I know you keep mentioning it a bunch of times, but it would be helpful if you would actually show us the exact quote.

I don't think that this is what SoJ is referring to (which I would love to see which quote he is referring to) but in WW, on Phantom Ganon's sword, there is some Hylian writing on it and if you translate the Hylian writing then you will see 2 names.

Zubora Gabora

That is what his sword says, and those are the names of the Terminian blacksmiths in MM so this suggests that those 2 blacksmiths made Phantom Ganon's sword, even though we have only ever seen their presence on the complete opposite side of the timeline.

 

[MrMosley]

I don't think that this is what SoJ is referring to (which I would love to see which quote he is referring to) but on Phantom Ganon's sword there is some Hylian writing on it and if you translate the Hylian writing then you will see 2 names.

Zubora Gabora

That is what his sword says, and those are the names of the Terminian blacksmiths in MM so this suggests that those 2 blacksmiths made Phantom Ganon's sword, even though we have only ever seen their presence on the complete opposite side of the timeline.

If that's the reason, then that's a dumb reason. Its not like Zelda players know how to read Hylian unless they study it, and the creators aren't going to make something as deep-rooted as that. That's like suggesting that Phantom Ganon rolled up in Termina and was like, "Hey guyz. Make me a sword."

I did find one quote in the game (WW) that was Daphnes, talking about the Hero of Time had to leave Hyrule for another adventure, which caused the Triforce of Courage to leave him. Its when he is telling how the ToC split in eight parts. Now when read, that would seem like the King is referring to Link going to Termina, which I'm sure he lost the Triforce as a kid whenever he went there too. But its not specific to say that. And Young Link wasn't really the Hero of Time. Whenever Adult Link went back in time, he obviously didn't take the ToC with him. The fact that it shows on the back of his hand as Young Link in the last scene plays in my theory that Ganondorf actually did enter the SR on the CT, but that's another discussion.

Anyway, that's the only quote I know of that would seem like it was talking about Link going to Termina. But it could just as well mean that he went back in time, which he did. That's why he wasn't around when Ganon came back.

 

[sign of table]

I'm not sure. I haven't ever seen this quote. I know you keep mentioning it a bunch of times, but it would be helpful if you would actually show us the exact quote.

No it's not Zubora Gabora. The Legend of the Fairy. It's part of the Tingle quests. It talks about Tingle meeting Link in MM, which is impossible with a split timeline. I'm too lazy to get the quote, but you can find the translation on the ZI translation thread which lists 'em all (I made a link in my crappy translation thread here).

Daphnes (King of Hyrule)

Uhm... nothing in that quote says that the mountaintops are islands now. Just that people fled to the mountains.

"Maze Island" is a general name. Plus, we already know that PH isn't set in Hyrule. That holds no importance. But saying that: Here's a country, buried beneath the sea, where the people now live on the tops of its mountains, one of which is now called Spectacle Island, named after Spectacle Rock, a place in the buried country... Is much more important.

You're suggesting that if there is a new Hyrule they put it right on top of the old? The land of PH could be the land of AoL.

By the way, here's the dictionary.com definition of "spectacle":

anything presented to the sight or view, esp. something of a striking or impressive kind: The stars make a fine spectacle tonight.

Umm... Spectacle Island is just as "general" as Maze Island.

 

[Zemen]

Uhm... nothing in that quote says that the mountaintops are islands now. Just that people fled to the mountains.

The Gods chose people and told them to flee to the mountain tops because the Gods were going to flood the land. Anyone with half a brain knows that the reason that the survivors chosen were told to go to the mountain tops is so they would not drown in the flood. Why wouldn't they drown in the flood? Because the mountain tops would not be covered. If all other land has been flooded other than the mountain tops, then what do you suppose the islands are? Probably those same mountain tops. That quote doesn't straight up say that the mountain tops are the islands but it's not hard to see how heavily suggested it is.

Are you suggesting that the islands just magically appeared?

You're suggesting that if there is a new Hyrule they put it right on top of the old? The land of PH could be the land of AoL.

By the way, here's the dictionary.com definition of "spectacle":

anything presented to the sight or view, esp. something of a striking or impressive kind: The stars make a fine spectacle tonight.

Umm... Spectacle Island is just as "general" as Maze Island.

If there was once a place called spectacle rock, and then the world floods and spectacle rock is covered, and there is an island over the land that once had a spectacle rock that is called spectacle island, then that's probably a good indication that spectacle island was part of spectacle rock.

 

[sign of table]

The Gods chose people and told them to flee to the mountain tops because the Gods were going to flood the land. Anyone with half a brain knows that the reason that the survivors chosen were told to go to the mountain tops is so they would not drown in the flood. Why wouldn't they drown in the flood? Because the mountain tops would not be covered. If all other land has been flooded other than the mountain tops, then what do you suppose the islands are? Probably those same mountain tops. That quote doesn't straight up say that the mountain tops are the islands but it's not hard to see how heavily suggested it is.

Are you suggesting that the islands just magically appeared?

I was tired... sue me

If there was once a place called spectacle rock, and then the world floods and spectacle rock is covered, and there is an island over the land that once had a spectacle rock that is called spectacle island, then that's probably a good indication that spectacle island was part of spectacle rock.

Or maybe the island is just a spectacle to see.

There's no way in freaken hell that an island with a similar generic name is more important than a quote from Aonuma saying that the towns of AoL are named after the sages (which are only awakened in the AT), and the same interview says that AoL takes place "after the events of OoT" (the only events in OoT were the AT ones), another island with a generic name (Maze Island). Oh and the only possible way the AoL BS can work in full.

Also, after the flood how would they remember what Spectacle Rock was called?

Is Spectacle Rock your only evidence?

 

[Zemen]

and the same interview says that AoL takes place "after the events of OoT" (the only events in OoT were the AT ones)

I don't like how you worded this. You're making it sound like that the only important parts of OoT were the adult parts. If AoL is said to take place after the events of OoT, then that could mean either the adult or child ending. You're making it sound like it's only possible for that to mean it goes after the adult ending. You're acting like it can ONLY mean the adult ending because that's where the only events occurred, and that is not only completely false, but that is completely biased (as that is your opinion).

Link went through the GDT dungeon, Jabu Jabu dungeon, Dodongos Cavern dungeon and part of the Spirit Temple all as a kid. He also, as a kid, saved the Zora princess and saved their beloved Jabu Jabu. Sounds to me like there were a lot of events that occurred in the CT portion of the game. To say otherwise is complete disregard for the game as a whole.

 

[Raven]

young link also finds the lens of truth in the well and sells masks for the mask trader.

You're suggesting that if there is a new Hyrule they put it right on top of the old? The land of PH could be the land of AoL.

And no phantom hourglass is not AoL flooded, u must be comfused. in phantom hourglass we never see below the ocean so your just saying random stuff PH is somewhere on the great sea but you can't just locate it without knowing what your talking about.

also in WW there is clear evidence that the mountains of hyrule are now islands, we get to go under the water and see that hyrule is beneath the great sea. the islands above may be different from what we know but the sea has expanded beyond just hyrule so some of the islands are probably mountains from the surrounding regions.

 

[sign of table]

Link went through the GDT dungeon, Jabu Jabu dungeon, Dodongos Cavern dungeon and part of the Spirit Temple all as a kid. He also, as a kid, saved the Zora princess and saved their beloved Jabu Jabu. Sounds to me like there were a lot of events that occurred in the CT portion of the game. To say otherwise is complete disregard for the game as a whole.

Just because he did all that as a kid doesn't mean it all happened on the CT. Explain why after Zelda sends you back, the kid Zelda makes that gasp that you ONLY see at the very end, and when you first meet her. She never makes that gasp any time except for the first time you meet her.

Considering it says that immediatly after saying that the town names of AoL are named after the sages of OoT (they are ONLY sages on the AT), I'd say that the quote is clear enough based on the context.

And no phantom hourglass is not AoL flooded, u must be comfused. in phantom hourglass we never see below the ocean so your just saying random stuff PH is somewhere on the great sea but you can't just locate it without knowing what your talking about.

What? We never see below the ocean? What does that have to do with new Hyrule?

 

[MrMosley]

No it's not Zubora Gabora. The Legend of the Fairy. It's part of the Tingle quests. It talks about Tingle meeting Link in MM, which is impossible with a split timeline. I'm too lazy to get the quote, but you can find the translation on the ZI translation thread which lists 'em all (I made a link in my crappy translation thread here).

Well laziness doesn't quite cut it, bub. I was active enough to find a quote, so you can bring me one if you want to use it as evidence. If it was part of the Tingle quests, I don't remember it. Unless your talking about the ones that you have to have the GBA to do or something. In that case, I never even played those parts of the game.

There's no way in freaken hell that an island with a similar generic name is more important than a quote from Aonuma saying that the towns of AoL are named after the sages (which are only awakened in the AT), and the same interview says that AoL takes place "after the events of OoT" (the only events in OoT were the AT ones), another island with a generic name (Maze Island).

Actually it is just as important in my opinion, which I explained above. If Aonuma wrote the game, wrote the storyline for the game, he obviously took part in naming the islands. Thus, Aonuma himself made it so clear the Spectacle Island was the top of Spectacle Rock, just as he made the aspect of the towns being named after the Sages clear when he quoted it.

And its actually probably more important seeing as how Aonuma didn't even take part in AoL OR OoT, but he did in WW. I could see the guy who made the story of WW relating an island to a previous game, but he is saying that they made OoT's "Sages" to be named after the towns in AoL. He didn't take part in either of those games, so how does he know that they were naming them after only the Sages? Remember, Kasuto and Mido were not sages.

Also, after the flood how would they remember what Spectacle Rock was called?

They don't have to. Of course, I could say that the inhabitants that fled to that particular island named it after what it was before. But I could just as well say that the inhabitants of AoL's verison of Hyrule would have no way of remembering the Sages names, so how could they name towns after it? Its failed logic to leave things like that up to the people when its obvious that the developers done it that way.

 

[sign of table]

Well laziness doesn't quite cut it, bub. I was active enough to find a quote, so you can bring me one if you want to use it as evidence. If it was part of the Tingle quests, I don't remember it. Unless your talking about the ones that you have to have the GBA to do or something. In that case, I never even played those parts of the game.

I didn't feel like going through that 50 page monstrosity on LA looking for the translation, and ZU was down so I couldn't get a link to the translation. But ZU's back up now... so here it is:

Well laziness doesn't quite cut it, bub. I was active enough to find a quote, so you can bring me one if you want to use it as evidence. If it was part of the Tingle quests, I don't remember it. Unless your talking about the ones that you have to have the GBA to do or something. In that case, I never even played those parts of the game.

It is said that the "Hero of Time" met this fairy in the midst of his journey. When he lost sight of the road, it gave the fairy a reason to show its figure in front of the hero. By a mysterious art it was floating in the air, it is said that the balloon burst with a sound just like with a snap, and it is said that it fell and danced.

The fairy handed a map to the lost hero and it is said that it flew away. The fairy proceeded to dangerous places earlier than the hero, created maps and handed them over. The legend goes on, the Hero of Time was saved by the courageous one, the plump figure, whenever he proceeded.

Fairies live for a time of thousands of years, but this mysterious fairy was a bit different. The mysterious fairy was born near a lake, when he met the Hero of Time he was only 35 years young. Today, people knowing such a fairy have become sparse.

Now, there are few people knowing the legend of the mysterious fairy. However, on a certain island the 35th birthday is still celebrated with green clothes and red pants. And they pray to become like the fairy of the legend, "Tincle".

And, yes... his name is (or was...?) Tincle in the Japanese version lol

But that's in TWW, and it refers to MM. Only possible in a linear timeline.

Actually it is just as important in my opinion, which I explained above. If Aonuma wrote the game, wrote the storyline for the game, he obviously took part in naming the islands. Thus, Aonuma himself made it so clear the Spectacle Island was the top of Spectacle Rock, just as he made the aspect of the towns being named after the Sages clear when he quoted it.

And its actually probably more important seeing as how Aonuma didn't even take part in AoL OR OoT, but he did in WW. I could see the guy who made the story of WW relating an island to a previous game, but he is saying that they made OoT's "Sages" to be named after the towns in AoL. He didn't take part in either of those games, so how does he know that they were naming them after only the Sages? Remember, Kasuto and Mido were not sages.

So what? They don't all have to be sages. It's the towns that were named after sages that matter.

They don't have to. Of course, I could say that the inhabitants that fled to that particular island named it after what it was before. But I could just as well say that the inhabitants of AoL's verison of Hyrule would have no way of remembering the Sages names, so how could they name towns after it? Its failed logic to leave things like that up to the people when its obvious that the developers done it that way.

According to Aonuma, they did remember the names of the sages.

Geography vs geography, the only story in the entire game, and a developer quote

I have more evidence, clearly.

 

[Zemen]

I don't think the legend of the fairy points to a linear timeline, as you suggest it could. If it was meant to be the same encounter as in MM then they wouldn't refer to Link as the hero of time. Also, no where does it say in that legend that they were in a different dimension. In fact, the only relevance this legend has with MM is that Tingle made maps and hung from a balloon, everything else has absolutely no match up with MM, so it's possible that this is just some random legend handed down that may not even be true.

Also, how would this legend be passed down after the flood? The legend contradicts itself more than it contradicts a split timeline.

Also, the split wasn't confirmed until AFTER WW was created which means that they probably didn't create the entire game with a split in mind.

 

[MrMosley]

I didn't feel like going through that 50 page monstrosity on LA looking for the translation, and ZU was down so I couldn't get a link to the translation. But ZU's back up now... so here it is:

And, yes... his name is (or was...?) Tincle in the Japanese version lol

But that's in TWW, and it refers to MM. Only possible in a linear timeline. So what? They don't all have to be sages. It's the towns that were named after sages that matter. According to Aonuma, they did remember the names of the sages.

Geography vs geography, the only story in the entire game, and a developer quote

I have more evidence, clearly.

Not really. You have the theory that a Hyrule could be set up in the way that it was set up in OoX (with the Triforce in Hyrule Castle). What is always beats what could be. You have a developer quote by a developer who didn't have anything to do with either game he was referencing, although he could have been told that the towns were named after the Sages, he didn't make the game. Plus, not all the towns were Sages, and that IS important. You can't just pick and choose this and that and say well this part works but the other part that makes it not work doesn't matter, when all parts are of equal value. In this case, all the towns in AoL are of equal value, and two of them do not match up to Aonuma's quote.

I have the Triforce in Hyrule Castle in OoX (clearly sets up for the AoL BS where the King would rule with the Triforce). I have a location in WW named specifically after a location in LoZ (both locations even look similar from above), which Aonuma DID take part in making (WW). And I have the fact that the towns in AoL could have just as well been named after people of importance in Hyrule, and not just the Sages. I'd say that a guess on that part has value considering Aonuma didn't write or help make OoT or AoL. I could say that the towns make more sense to have been named after various leaders of the tribes of Hyrule at a point in time, and it would work.

So you don't have more evidence. You just believe your evidence of one quote is better than all the things that would make AoL come on the CT.

 

[ironknuckle1]

I was just think ing that OOx could happen on either side of the timeline because even if Minish cap is on the other side it is a different Link and he doesn't know them also characters from one side of the timeline do appear on the other sides such as Tingle.

and can someone post what the Timeline actually is so far.

 

[sign of table]

I don't think the legend of the fairy points to a linear timeline, as you suggest it could. If it was meant to be the same encounter as in MM then they wouldn't refer to Link as the hero of time.

What would they refer to the Hero of Time as (which has already been referred to many times as the Hero of Time), then?

Also, no where does it say in that legend that they were in a different dimension. In fact, the only relevance this legend has with MM is that Tingle made maps and hung from a balloon, everything else has absolutely no match up with MM, so it's possible that this is just some random legend handed down that may not even be true.

Umm... I'll point out the things that match up:

"It is said that the "Hero of Time" met this fairy in the midst of his journey. When he lost sight of the road, it gave the fairy a reason to show its figure in front of the hero. By a mysterious art it was floating in the air, it is said that the balloon burst with a sound just like with a snap, and it is said that it fell and danced." Hell I shouldn't even have to explain this. All of this stuff happened in MM.

"The fairy handed a map to the lost hero and it is said that it flew away. The fairy proceeded to dangerous places earlier than the hero, created maps and handed them over. The legend goes on, the Hero of Time was saved by the courageous one, the plump figure, whenever he proceeded." The first half is exactly what happened in MM. Tingle went to the areas before the HoT and made maps for him there. The HoT being saved by him... ehhh that doesn't fit.

"Fairies live for a time of thousands of years, but this mysterious fairy was a bit different. The mysterious fairy was born near a lake, when he met the Hero of Time he was only 35 years young. Today, people knowing such a fairy have become sparse." Tingle was 35 years old in MM IIRC.

"Now, there are few people knowing the legend of the mysterious fairy. However, on a certain island the 35th birthday is still celebrated with green clothes and red pants. And they pray to become like the fairy of the legend, "Tincle"." There ya go, exactly the same. His name is (or was. I'm not completely sure. They may have only changed it to Tingle in the NoA version, but he most definitely was Tincle in the Japanese version) Tincle/Tingle.

That fits in every single way except for one. It is DEFINITELY talking about the events of MM.

You could say it may not even be true, but every single thing in that story happened in MM (except, maybe, Tingle saving Link. Which, arguably, may have happened in Tingle's eyes if he sees maps as a neccesity).

Also, how would this legend be passed down after the flood? The legend contradicts itself more than it contradicts a split timeline.

How could the story of the HoT be passed down, or the other legends mentioned in TWW?

You have a developer quote by a developer who didn't have anything to do with either game he was referencing, although he could have been told that the towns were named after the Sages,

Considering he's the current director for Zelda, and he's the one who actually cares about the timeline and is the only one who could release a canon official timeline, I'd say his statements to any of the games matter, as he's the one who chooses where they go.

You can't just pick and choose this and that and say well this part works but the other part that makes it not work doesn't matter, when all parts are of equal value. In this case, all the towns in AoL are of equal value, and two of them do not match up to Aonuma's quote.

Does it matter when 2 of them aren't perfect when the other 5 match up and are only named because of the sages which ONLY happened on the AT, according to the only person who could release a canon timeline?

I have the Triforce in Hyrule Castle in OoX (clearly sets up for the AoL BS where the King would rule with the Triforce).

So how can the sleeping Zelda be first generation, then?

And explain why you see the Triforce flying AWAY from Hyrule at the end of OoX?

I have a location in WW named specifically after a location in LoZ (both locations even look similar from above), which Aonuma DID take part in making (WW).

Aonuma never said that that was significant in the slightest. Whereas he said that AoL takes place after the events of OoT (the majority, if not all, of the events in OoT happened on the AT) and that the towns were named after the sages (they were ONLY sages on the AT. Sure they could have been important people on the CT (I doubt Nabooru, however. I can't imagine that a member of a theif organisation whose leader was executed for invading Hyrule), but they were only SAGES on the AT). And I have the fact that the towns in AoL could have just as well been named after people of importance in Hyrule, and not just the Sages. I'd say that a guess on that part has value considering Aonuma didn't write or help make OoT or AoL. I could say that the towns make more sense to have been named after various leaders of the tribes of Hyrule at a point in time, and it would work. [/quote] Too bad Aonuma, the only person who could really create an official canon timeline, disagrees with you.

So you don't have more evidence. You just believe your evidence of one quote is better than all the things that would make AoL come on the CT.

Aonuma disagrees with you. That's enough evidence.