Mafia 5: Arkham City

[Jimmy]

Not really. Ky often switches between being involved in games and not caring. He's been absent from Beginner Mafia for a couple of days aswell, so I expect he just has better things to do at the moment.

 

[DeletedUser9]

Along with what jdenicholls said, Ky's meta (as far as that is concerned) has shifted a bit as of late and he seems to take his time a bit more. Or that's what I've observed in both Beginner's Mafia and some of Mafia 4. So I don't find it that unusual.

 

[Zenox]

I apparently haven't been around a lot longer than I thought, so I guess you guys are probably right.

 

[Nicole]

The problem with the beginning of mafia games is that you can never be sure of anyone. They might say something scummy or act weird, but that can possibly mean absolutely nothing. As the game progresses, it gets easier to point out little, shall we say, slip-ups or mistakes because it is a smaller group and you have more evidence from nightkills, previous lynches, etc.

Basically lynching anybody at this stage in the game is based on gut feeling, as you can't say so-and-so was associated with the Mafia or not because, well, we don't *know* who is mafia. There are only little tells you can go on this early in the game. Some people seem suspicious already, some are lurking, and some are at each other's throats. Because of the lack of evidence and the fact that roles will start to be revealed as the Days progress, I'm not ready to vote on anyone. Plenty of people appear shady, but it could just be a "playstyle." I personally think we should take our time in choosing on the first lynch, if we even decide on a lynch for Day 1.

 

[DeletedUser9]

The problem with the beginning of mafia games is that you can never be sure of anyone.

This statement applies throughout the entire game, from beginning to end, actually. Even the surest evidence still only amounts to a theory; the most obvious scum can turn out to be town and the most trustworthy town can just be really good Mafia. Point is to be decisive and be ready to make mistakes.

 

[Nicole]

This statement applies throughout the entire game, from beginning to end, actually. Even the surest evidence still only amounts to a theory; the most obvious scum can turn out to be town and the most trustworthy town can just be really good Mafia. Point is to be decisive and be ready to make mistakes.

Quite true, Mafia 4 is a prime example. I assume you know what I meant with that statement, but in the case that you didn't, I meant it gets easier for evidence to turn up as slip-ups are more frequent and roles have been revealed due to nightkills or lynch results.

 

[Jimmy]

Yeah I'm with Axle on that one. At this stage in the game we outnumber the Mafia considerably, and the loss of one townie is not as much of a disaster as it would be in the last few days (I just read the end of Round 2 where 4 mafia were left alive and killed the 3 townies left on the last day, for example). I do appreciate that SoL is right in that we have less to go on, and any players we've never played with before are more mysterious initially. I'm going to wait until tomorrow to collect my thoughts and do some accusing though.

 

[David]

I still stand by my suspicions of DracoMajora, Illimatic, and Hero of Music.

Why defend me? EXPLAIN YOURSELVES!

Oh hey... Jo's suspicious of me. Again. And... You don't have to yell at me to get me to post.

Jo, if you remember, I flipped town last time with your suspicion (well... I was acting odd in the last game, even though I was a vanilla townie). If my defense of myself isn't adequate enough for you, I promise you that you'll really, and I mean really, regret killing me off when I flip townie, and I promise that I will flip townie.

Now, for my defense.

The post that Zenox posted that I felt didn't have any real claim in it:

You know, Jo. I really didn't think much of this list, but I think I'll bring it up.

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=JEEP's_Tells_for_Finding_Mafia

Rule number 6: Mafia generally have more information than other players, so whoever picks up on tells/hints easiest is more likely to be mafia.

You seem very eager to jump at people to acuse them, and you instantly seemed to assume TheGreen and I had a tell, which would lead me to assume you have inside information = Mafia.

With that FOS: Baysiderulez

EBWODP: In addition, to remain neutral, you quickly say "It's too early to tell" to try and take the blame away from you, my guess. Just some more facts for the table.

As you can see, Zenox seemed oddly suspicious of you, Jo, with reasons that I felt were not applicable to your first post. As Axle mentioned, he cut off the last little bit of the rule that gives an exception to a "scum-tell" rule. Zenox said later that he didn't feel it necessary to put that in his post, which I also find odd, because he should know that you are a very experienced player. But, I will say that I'm glad that he's researching some rules and tips outside of this game to help himself in this game.

My defense of you was to show him that there are other factors that show that you were not scum with the information that we had. I merely told him that it was too early in the game to be placing an FOS on someone with only the first post of that person to go off of. Jo, your post was only a couple of sentences that pointed out that you thought that TheGreen and Zenox were a little eager to get things going. I also said that your post could have been scum tell, but it was too early to place heavy suspicion.

Axle said, in response to Zenox's post that accused Jo:

Uh... huh... As empty as her statement about eagerness is, yours is equally empty. In what way does her statement imply having more information? Furthermore, how does it even count as picking up a tell, since for reasons stated above eagerness isn't a tell at all?

That's exactly what I was thinking when I read Zenox's post. I honestly felt like there was an "empty" argument used to support Zenox's claim. It didn't make sense.

Also, What Jo said about people defending her:

Why thank you, I love not having to defend myself... Keep going

Everyone knows my position in mafia is the Town Conversation starter... might get me killed. Might prove to be helpful in scum hunting. Guess we will find out now won't we?

Why would you suddenly flip on those that defended you, a few posts later, when you said that you "love[d] not having to defend [your]self?" (quote only changed to match proper grammar. In no way was this slight change meant to take the quote out of context) That post seems like you're happy that we defended you. It would save you some work and time in the game. Also, if you really are town, like you claim, you would prove to be quite an asset to us.

Last sentence summarizes why those 3 are protecting me. I thought that was quite obvious...
Jden, lets say you are scum, and you know for a fact that I am not scum. Wouldn't it be wise to defend me during the day. To make you appear like you are protector of all things good in humanity? I am clearly not a person that needs others to defend me, as I am experienced enough to know how to properly defend myself. Why would 3 other people come to my rescue.

Simple. I think they are scum. If I died... and those 3 defended me. It would place them in the clear, why you guys went after those who voted for my lynching. It is the same tactic (as I've now said twice) that Kybyrian used in game 2 when he was the godfather (he protected me from all harm, warded off suspicion and when I was lynched it made him appear clean), and the tactic I used in Mafia 3 when I was the godmother (I was an avid defender of Linksbro, and every other townie that the town attempted to Lynch). It has proven to work, in game after game, because our minds aren't programed to think that those who may defend the innocent can be scum. Just like some of the greatest "scum hunters' can be mafia, even if they successfully give up one of their own to help us (hence MK9's tactic in Mafia 2 that ultimately gave him away to me). These activities give us something called pseudo-trust. We trust them because they have led us in the right direction, but they are only doing so to confuse us, and ultimately betray us.

Now if that doesn't make sense, then I must give up explaining, because I lack the words to simplify it anymore. If I die, I will flip town. You can choose to trust that statement or you can choose to decide I am lying. A time will come when you know all I've said is true. It is my meta to only tell the truth in these games.

Technically, 4 people "came to your rescue" right after that post. You listed me, Dracomajora, and Illmatic. You missed Axle. Why aren't you suspicious of him? Then, on the next page (4), jdenicholls "came to your rescue" as well. And further down on that page, you've got some support from Meego7 and kokirion. Why aren't you suspicious of any of those other three? Or do you know something about the "original" three of us that others don't? Only Mafia would know such information here on day 1.

If people defend me but I still die... and I WILL flip town, there's no doubt about that. What will you think about the people who defended me? Will you go after them, or will they appear to be smart assets to the town and you will keep them around... The only people who currently have information about who is mafia and who is not... Is the Mafia. They know I'm, innocent. So why not protect me if it seems like a lost cause? Kyby did it in Mafia 2. I did it in Mafia 3. I have to say it was a working strategy in both games.

This post gives me a few mixed feelings. What do you mean by "lost cause?" Why would the Mafia use a tactic that they know that previous Godfathers/Godmothers have used? Especially when those two are playing this game? It just doesn't add up in my mind.

Then, Jo commenting on us "defenders":

I think they have already slipped up. By defending me. I also might have a distorted view of what warrants a title of "slip up"

You really think that defending someone that we feel is a powerful and useful player is a "slip up?" Its Day 1, and those posts were made on the 3rd page. Zenox made a rather large accusation of you only after a few posts. In my opinion, there isn't much to go off of with a first post like yours, Jo. The three of us that you are suspicious of said in our defenses of you that Zenox was making claims that weren't valid. It doesn't mean it is a "slip up."

 

[green goron]

Why would you suddenly flip on those that defended you, a few posts later, when you said that you "love[d] not having to defend [your]self?" (quote only changed to match proper grammar. In no way was this slight change meant to take the quote out of context) That post seems like you're happy that we defended you. It would save you some work and time in the game. Also, if you really are town, like you claim, you would prove to be quite an asset to us.

She is suspicious of her defenders because in previous games mafia have defended townies in order to look good and she thinks you guys might have did that. But Bay, more people than just these three defended you why not be suspicious of them?

 

[Baysiderulez]

Thats not true. Owen basically said that both Zenox and I were both full of ****. And that's true. I took little bit of nothing (well it was something... a comment enough to sound slightly out of place) and voiced a few names to see what would become of it. Zenox fed the same thing back to me. It was to be expected.

Jden also remained neutral. I also happen to know that Jden is skeptical of me because of the way he words his posts. He is quick to not assign a townie or scum title to me just yet.

So when you learn to interpret posts and not purposely butcher them, in order to make me look bad. Come back and we'll talk. Until then you 3 will remain my suspects.

 

[Jimmy]

Here's the way I see it. Bay is a good player. If she is scum this makes here dangerous to the town, but if she is a townie she is a huge asset to the town. Odds are (disregarding any information from the posts) that Bay is a townie, as townies outnumber scum 3 to 1 (or thereabouts). This is Mafia, so while I don't trust her absolutely it just makes sense mathematically to predict that she is a townie, unless observations/gut feelings assert otherwise. Towns often will lynch players who stick their neck out on the first day, and Bay could be a valuable player to have around later if she flips town. That said, she is a big girl and I'm sure she is quite capable of defending herself.

I've no idea why she hasn't picked up on Axle, Meego, Koki or me defending her. But I've seen her in past games and she often plays a bit mysteriously. So I'll await further comment until things have played out further.

EBWODP Dammit Bay. Ninja'd again.

 

[DeletedUser9]

Owen

That's me for those who don't know. We should probably use usernames or obvious nicknames rather than real names. Which means I should probably stop calling Bayside "Jo". >.<

 

[Baysiderulez]

That said, she is a big girl

Making fat jokes are we? Better know who you are dealing with....

I dont recall a meego post. must go look for this <_<

 

[Zenox]

This is Mafia, so while I don't trust her absolutely it just makes sense mathematically to predict that she is a townie, unless observations/gut feelings assert otherwise.

While I understand where you're coming from, it's Day 1. You should never assume anyone is Townie. For me, everyone is scum until they do something to prove them otherwise.

 

[Baysiderulez]

While I understand where you're coming from, it's Day 1. You should never assume anyone is Townie. For me, everyone is scum until they do something to prove them otherwise.

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