Is the Master Sword Zonai made?

[GZ Zelda]

Part 2:

What the **** is actual levels. I've said before, Tears of the Kingdom is the only game in the series I know next to nothing about for the most part.

Then I'll come back when I do, but there's things a person can do before establishing their own kingdom that makes a significant difference. I've never said that Ryu is entirely wrong, but using a theory to confirm a theory is the only thing I have a problem with this thread.

Stray, you're fine, we love you.

But you clearly are yet to obtain the information we are talking about. HH and Encyclopedia do not have the any information presented in "T.O.T.K Memories" you are proving to us, there are ways to obtain the information, but the information you are referring to (H.H H.E) is not the "Applicable" information for this debate.
T.O.T.K memories are what you are missing.
you are also telling us you hadn't seen the memories with the relevant information,
whilst telling us "I can see them on the net , but I don't want to."

But TotK memories don't tell us anything about the past, that's their problem.

All we know is there's lots of forests, an OoT-era Death Mountain, multiple Gerudo settlements (some siding with Ganondorf, others against), an ancient Goron city, a Rito settlement with a big boat, a Zora settlement that, at one time, sourced the water in East Reservoir Lake, three Zonai castle-mazes, a variety of underground Zonaite mines with statues leading to them, an underground Construct factory with accompanying large temple, a Zonai Temple of Time and a Zonai Hyrule Castle (one of which is moved to the sky, one of which is destroyed), and a variety of identical floating sky chunks, one of which mines for Luminous Stone, another which has exhaust vents?, and a third that is in the shape of a dragon and has a temple. None of this has anything to do with SS or OoT, which have a sparse sky, no underground, no Rito, and Zoras living in caves.

Also there's two Imprisoning Wars now, and two Raurus who might be the same Rauru, and also a Sage of Lightning and Wind now. And there isn't a Master Sword (or even a Goddess Sword), and, in some theories, Demise's curse doesn't do anything, and also the Triforce is a complete non-entity and also there are two Triforces (which I love very much, but goes against OoT's split if we're talking about canon).

This is complete jibberish if compared to SS or OoT, suggesting a refounding much later in the overall Zelda story.

White Dragon.

I don't think this is symbolic, it's Zelda, the Master Sword was in the White Dragon's skull, and so Zonai material thinks its interfacing with her

If there is no "Hyrule Kindom mentioned "Pre-SS" do we ignore the points "Ryu Kage Desu" is presenting?
all of the points he brought to light would suggest Logically that this is the case,
Buildings
Sheild
Triforce monuments,
Mines,
Sheika tech and "ROBOTS"

tribes in da bush dont build ROBOTS

The buildings are strong evidence for pre-Skyloftian civilization, but the empty, unclouded sky goes against Zonai activity (unlike City in the Sky or Minish Cap sky which are heavily clouded and probably below the barrier).

The Hylian shield is given to Link by Lanayru; it is "imbued with heroic power" by Lanayru.

The Triforce Monuments leave the unaccessed Triforce even less explicable.

The mines exist in an underground portion of Hyrule (upheld by large roots), which aren't shown anywhere in any games besides Zelda 1 and maybe Subrosia.

The Sheikah Tech and robot stuff uses blue, like, "time energy?" compared to Zonai's green spirit energy. The Zonai tech is strong, but they didn't build Divine Beast. Lanayru explicitly uses the Ancient Robots, powered by timeshift stones, so they probably weren't built by Zonai (who don't have timeshift stone capabilities outside of the Secret Stones).

To make things clear, I was talking about Ocarina of Time Rauru, considering I know nothing about the Rauru in Tears of the Kingdom. I have nothing to say to contradict or confirm anything about his placement and the timeline, and what he did. You do make an interesting points of referring to a Link to the Past, something I have yet to consider. However there is one thing I want to consider, Is it just me, or in the position of Ganondorf's original placement being underneath Hyrule Castle at the beginning of Tears of the Kingdom, could lead the present of the game, at least, to sometime after the adult timeline, before the events of Tears of the Kingdom. If the great flood did receed at one point after the events of Spirit Tracks, it wouldn't be unreasonable for Zelda's descendants to reinhabit the old Hyrule. Eventually having to seal ganondorf by another method, due to the flood no longer keeping his seal underneath the waves and able to weaken. But this is a theory for another day, and something to consider. And something I believe has credibility in itself.

This is my theory exactly: an AT placement for TotK past. Why is there an entire underground section of Hyrule, identical to the surface, held up by roots that are, in some instances, literally the roots of the Great Deku Tree, if not for the Great Deku Tree's Korok sidequest to have an impact? There are people who think Triforce wishes are permanent, but they get overturned every other game.

Before I go any further, do we know Tears of the Kingdoms placement in the timeline officially?

We know the game takes place at the very end, but we don't know about the start. I think the safest assumption is a refounding entirely at the end of the Downfall timeline for the canon placement, if we ever get it.

 

[Lambsquirt]

Part 1:

This is super true, I just don't think we should call it "Zonai technology" but "Hylian technology," though I understand the instinct. I don't think Fi is Zonai-made is what I mean, I think she's made by Hylia.

I do think that the Zonai sages may be the sages who "forged" the Master Sword in ALttP, and the "Dark World" Ganon was sealed in may be the Depths, and "the Imprisoning War of ALttP" may be the Imprisoning War in TotK. Not quite sure where the Sacred Realm and Triforce fit in...maybe the Zonai just do have nothing to do with the Master Sword.

That would make the presence of the Hero of the Winds set and the Hero of Twilight set in TotK very confusing...

But it is suspicious that the Master Sword plan is so cleanly laid out. There may be some pre-destiny that allowed the Master Sword to be created because Zelda had brought it from the past and shown it to the Zonai. Maybe Rauru is Hylia.

But then how did a war with Ganondorf precede the war with Demise? Wouldn't TotK Ganondorf want the Triforce, not some stone?

Hyrule was founded after Skyward Sword. Unless that was a refounding. Unless TotK takes place after Skyward Sword and before MC, there is at least one refounding of the Kingdom of Hyrule.

If TotK past takes place before Ocarina of Time, how did the OoT king and population not know about Ganondorf? I guess the Sky is as memory-debilitating as the Great Sea, maybe.


OoT Rauru is literally an owl and TotK Rauru wears owls everywhere. The King Owl thing is by far the strongest piece of evidence for TotK past being pre-SS, I just don't think the lack of 3 key races, the lack of Triforce/Hylia, the presence of pre-OoT Ganondorf, or the fully explorable but meaningfully empty sky supports a pre-SS placement.

Absolutely not, the lore never mentions a Hyrule kingdom before SS unless you already assume TotK's past to take place before it.

TotK Rauru didn't build the OoT Temple of Time, OoT Rauru did. Unless you're saying that TotK Rauru first sealed Ganondorf and then built a temple?

But Rauru rules over a race that doesn't exist until after the Wind Waker. And the wars before OoT were explicitly over the Triforce: where is it in TotK? And they just forgot about their greatest enemy being named Ganondorf in OoT? The pre-OoT placement makes only slightly more much sense than the pre-SS placement. Not saying mine is any better cuz it's a linear timeline lmao, but @Moblinking5000 DT placement is only slightly better than @Ryuu Kage Desu and @Lambsquirt placement. We still haven't done enough TotK lore work to figure out its world, I personally think; it took 5 years to scratch BotW's surface and 20 (with three more games) to understand OoT. Just because these are the first 3D games since the books doesn't mean that the process isn't the same as it was in the aughts.

A war with Demise Before "SS" is Plausible as we now have the concept of the incarnations of the sealed "Demon King Ganon"
You really need to Grasp the concept of re-incarnation of the sealed "MummyDorf".
Projecting his "Malace" and incarnating when powerful enough,
(Demise)

#note
Look at demises aesthetics, then look at Ganons aesthetics and "FORM" when hes trapped in the Twillight realm.

Ganons true power is in his "Sealed" Demon king form".
As he gradually weakens "Rarus magic Zonai tupperware" he is sealed in, his soul can incarnate into a lesser form of himself.

The Ganon every 100 years (subject to circumstance).
Circumstance being, E.g In Skyward Sword when its Ganons time to incarnate, Groose the Gerudo male,
Is Protected by the Godesses in skyloft, so Ganon cannot incarnate. it was planned.

With no vessel for incarnation we see "Demise" the 1st malace form of the "Imprisioned" Demon King Ganon.

 

[Lambsquirt]

Part 2:


Stray, you're fine, we love you.

But TotK memories don't tell us anything about the past, that's their problem.

All we know is there's lots of forests, an OoT-era Death Mountain, multiple Gerudo settlements (some siding with Ganondorf, others against), an ancient Goron city, a Rito settlement with a big boat, a Zora settlement that, at one time, sourced the water in East Reservoir Lake, three Zonai castle-mazes, a variety of underground Zonaite mines with statues leading to them, an underground Construct factory with accompanying large temple, a Zonai Temple of Time and a Zonai Hyrule Castle (one of which is moved to the sky, one of which is destroyed), and a variety of identical floating sky chunks, one of which mines for Luminous Stone, another which has exhaust vents?, and a third that is in the shape of a dragon and has a temple. None of this has anything to do with SS or OoT, which have a sparse sky, no underground, no Rito, and Zoras living in caves.

Also there's two Imprisoning Wars now, and two Raurus who might be the same Rauru, and also a Sage of Lightning and Wind now. And there isn't a Master Sword (or even a Goddess Sword), and, in some theories, Demise's curse doesn't do anything, and also the Triforce is a complete non-entity and also there are two Triforces (which I love very much, but goes against OoT's split if we're talking about canon).

This is complete jibberish if compared to SS or OoT, suggesting a refounding much later in the overall Zelda story.

I don't think this is symbolic, it's Zelda, the Master Sword was in the White Dragon's skull, and so Zonai material thinks its interfacing with her

The buildings are strong evidence for pre-Skyloftian civilization, but the empty, unclouded sky goes against Zonai activity (unlike City in the Sky or Minish Cap sky which are heavily clouded and probably below the barrier).

The Hylian shield is given to Link by Lanayru; it is "imbued with heroic power" by Lanayru.

The Triforce Monuments leave the unaccessed Triforce even less explicable.

The mines exist in an underground portion of Hyrule (upheld by large roots), which aren't shown anywhere in any games besides Zelda 1 and maybe Subrosia.

The Sheikah Tech and robot stuff uses blue, like, "time energy?" compared to Zonai's green spirit energy. The Zonai tech is strong, but they didn't build Divine Beast. Lanayru explicitly uses the Ancient Robots, powered by timeshift stones, so they probably weren't built by Zonai (who don't have timeshift stone capabilities outside of the Secret Stones).

This is my theory exactly: an AT placement for TotK past. Why is there an entire underground section of Hyrule, identical to the surface, held up by roots that are, in some instances, literally the roots of the Great Deku Tree, if not for the Great Deku Tree's Korok sidequest to have an impact? There are people who think Triforce wishes are permanent, but they get overturned every other game.

We know the game takes place at the very end, but we don't know about the start. I think the safest assumption is a refounding entirely at the end of the Downfall timeline for the canon placement, if we ever get it.

Oh yes they do if you were paying attention!
In the Memories, (Totk past) The "Temple of time" that Raru built is on the ground yea?
In the game (Totk Presant) Its floating in the Sky islands.

This tells us 2 cold hard facts.

1.) Rarus Hyrule is set Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay Before the Sky Islands were Raised.

2.) Once learning of Ganon Through Zelda (the Goddess Hylias incarnation),
Raru and Hylia (Zelda) Raise the Sky islands.

You are forgetting that Zelda was sent to the past and is a legit Incarnation of Hylia (Evident time power).

#As was Sonia but thas a balance disscussion as Gannon had to balance the powers of yin and yang by killing Sonia,
Hylia cannot exsist in two instances in the same time this was an "Unbalancing of the Zelda universe".

 

[Lambsquirt]

We know the game takes place at the very end, but we don't know about the start. I think the safest assumption is a refounding entirely at the end of the Downfall timeline for the canon placement, if we ever get it.
.
T.O.T.K past cannot fit after OOT. lol
impossible

 

[Ashley the Witch]

Oh yes they do if you were paying attention!
In the Memories, (Totk past) The "Temple of time" that Raru built is on the ground yea?
In the game (Totk Presant) Its floating in the Sky islands.

This tells us 2 cold hard facts.

1.) Rarus Hyrule is set Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay Before the Sky Islands were Raised.

2.) Once learning of Ganon Through Zelda (the Goddess Hylias incarnation),
Raru and Hylia (Zelda) Raise the Sky islands.

You are forgetting that Zelda was sent to the past and is a legit Incarnation of Hylia (Evident time power).

#As was Sonia but thas a balance disscussion as Gannon had to balance the powers of yin and yang by killing Sonia,
Hylia cannot exsist in two instances in the same time this was an "Unbalancing of the Zelda universe.

Your first point doesn't actually make sense, The Temple of Time location doesn't really prove or disprove anything. Secondly, the game series is no stranger to time travel, and before Tears of the Kingdom, Ocarina of Time is in the only time they did it Skyward Sword, and Twilight Princess's Temple of Time, also did so, Time was also stopped in Hyrule Castle in the Wind Waker, which just furthers the theory of Tears of the Kingdom taking place in the Adult Timeline. Thirdly, every incarnation of Zelda, not just the one has the blood of the goddess. In other words, none of these points actually give us concrete proof. Only a very rough idea.

 

[Lambsquirt]

Your first point doesn't actually make sense, The Temple of Time location doesn't really prove or disprove anything, secondly the game series is no stranger to time travel, and before Tears of the Kingdom, Ocarina of Time is in the only time they did it Skyward Sword, and Twilight Princess's Temple of Time also did so, Time was also stopped in Hyrule Castle in the Wind Waker, which just furthers the theory of Tears of the Kingdom taking place in the Adult Timeline. Thirdly, every incarnation of Zelda, not just the one has the blood of the goddess. In other words, none of these points actually give us concrete proof. Only a very rough idea.

it does indeed make sense Stray, if we are looking at something "chronologically" the Raising of the sky islands happens after T.O.T.K past and Before Skyward Sword.
This is the point the information they give you is suggesting, IF you Decipher it correctly.

 

[Ashley the Witch]

it does indeed make sense Stray, if we are looking at something "chronologically" the Raising of the sky islands happens after T.O.T.K past and Before Skyward Sword.
This is the point the information they give you is suggesting, IF you Decipher it correctly.

The thing is, at the beginning backstory, and at the end of Skyward Sword, the Sky Islands were on the ground, but we also know that after Skyward Sword, Sky Islands were also raised again, because of Minnish Cap and Twilight Princess, once again not proving anything or disproofing anything. If this Sky Islands were never raised again. The sky people from both of those two games wouldn't exist. So it doesn't necessarily have to be the Sky Islands seen in Skyward Sword. Skyward Sword is just the only prominent game that heavily focuses on Sky Islands.

 

[Lambsquirt]

we are taking 3 other points into consideration at once though we have already clarified this, not just the raising of the sky islands,

The Master sword and Rarus lack of knowledge of,
Evidence of a Kingdom Before Skyward Sword,
The Goddess temple nd statues in "SS" and "Totk"

and the raising of the sky islands.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

@GZ Zelda To briefly respond to this post over yonder (sorry, was at work and couldn't check ZD until now):

1) TotK wears the face of an owl on his chest, but is still altogether a different non-owl species.
2) A future game may lay claim to the idea that the Zonai were involved with the Master Sword's creation in some tangential way, but at the moment Skyward Sword explicitly contradicts this.
3) Everyone in the series forgets about Ganon, the Master Sword, and the Link because everyone in the series is a thundering dumbass and Hyrule doesn't keep track of its own history.

 

[Ashley the Witch]

we are taking 3 other points into consideration at once though we have already clarified this, not just the raising of the sky islands,

The Master sword and Rarus lack of knowledge of,
Evidence of a Kingdom Before Skyward Sword,
The Goddess temple nd statues in "SS" and "Totk"

and the raising of the sky islands.

I totally agree with this, we do need to discuss the other factors, Tears of the Kingdom Rauru could have easily not known about the Master Sword, The imprisoning war as far as I know, didn't use the Master Sword to finish it, once again, I could be wrong. While there is evidence of a civilization before Hyrule, there has been multiple times in IRL history where another civilization completely conquers an old one, basically almost or entirely wiping their known history from existence, upon building a new civilization. As for the goddess temple, Hylia was on the surface, and revered as the goddess she is by the inhabitants, even before the events of Skyward Sword. It's no wonder the temple was stayed intact before and after Skyward Sword and Tears of the Kingdom.

 

[Lambsquirt]

I don't think this is symbolic, it's Zelda, the Master Sword was in the White Dragon's skull, and so Zonai material thinks its interfacing with her.

im just sharing what white dragon symbolises in japanese hence the game was made by the japanese? i don't understand why this had to be addressed???

 

[Ashley the Witch]

@GZ Zelda To briefly respond to this post over yonder:

1) TotK wears the face of an owl on his chest, but is still altogether a different non-owl species.
2) A future game may lay claim to the idea that the Zonai were involved with the Master Sword's creation in some tangential way, but at the moment Skyward Sword explicitly contradicts this.
3) Everyone in the series forgets about Ganon, the Master Sword, and the Link because everyone in the series is a thundering dumbass and Hyrule doesn't keep track of its own history.

Lol. That is so true. I mean take Shad from Twilight Princess, barely having a clue of anything regarding the City in the Sky. Despite The game telling us it was important to the royal family at one point. You think Hyrule would keep records of those.

 

[Lambsquirt]

@GZ Zelda To briefly respond to this post over yonder:

1) TotK wears the face of an owl on his chest, but is still altogether a different non-owl species.
2) A future game may lay claim to the idea that the Zonai were involved with the Master Sword's creation in some tangential way, but at the moment Skyward Sword explicitly contradicts this.
3) Everyone in the series forgets about Ganon, the Master Sword, and the Link because everyone in the series is a thundering dumbass and Hyrule doesn't keep track of its own history.

our whole theory is based around Ganon, and his incarnation processes you are currently yet to comprehend correctly.
do a little bit of digging into Japanese culture,
you will see how Ganon is portrayed as the death and reincarnation process, "buddah" and
link is the Essence of "Shinto" the Life force, death is not focused on in Shinto beliefs,
The game does not focus on links death rather his destiny to beat Death (Ganon/Reincarnation).

Buddhism is portrayed as the opposing religion to Shintoism.

Just as Ganon will always Oppose Link

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

Lol. That is so true. I mean take Shad from Twilight Princess, barely having a clue of anything regarding the City in the Sky. Despite The game telling us it was important to the royal family at one point. You think Hyrule would keep records of those.

Yeah, it's one of those elements of the series that bothers me. BotW is the first time we've really seen someone try and preemptively engage Ganon. Given how often Link and Ganon show up so often that you'd think someone would crack open a book and say, "Wait, this has happened before!"

 

[Ashley the Witch]

Yeah, it's one of those elements of the series that bothers me. BotW is the first time we've really seen someone try and preemptively engage Ganon. Given how often Link and Ganon show up so often that you'd think someone would crack open a book and say, "Wait, this has happened before!"

At least with Breath of the Wild, It's understandable that most of the country's history is lost.