What makes an RPG?

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

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RPG is an acronym that gets thrown around a lot these days. From the beginning of the genre's popularity with the release of the first editions of Dungeons and Dragons to the 2023 release of Baldur's Gate 3, it's an acronym that has soaked its way into the gaming vocabulary more and more in recent times. While once the RPG conjured images of PC games with manuals so detailed they could serve as college textbooks, these days most games that introduce a built-in progression system fall somewhere under the nebulous label of games with "RPG elements".

It's become a difficult genre to lock down. While there are games like Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect, and the Witcher games that fall squarely into what most people would point at and describe RPGs, so too do many others. The Elder Scrolls games, Persona, Fire Emblem, and Pokemon are all games lumped into the RPG category that have shifted sharply from the genre's origins as a more open ended tabletop game into something with a larger focus on fixed narratives. A whole genre has spawned in the form of the JRPG: linear, story-focused adventures with leveling systems.

As one of those boring tabletop players who loves to roll a fistful of dice and scribble numbers on character sheets I can't help but feel that RPG has lost its meaning (which feels a whole lot like being an old man yelling at kids about how things were different back in my day). And while it's difficult to define an entire genre of video game, I've settled on this:

Any video game with a system of character and skill progression that allows for a consistent level of player impact on the narrative.

That personal definition is why, while I enjoy them, I don't consider most JRPGs to fall under that RPG flag. What about you guys? What are your standards for what is and isn't an RPG?

 

[mαrkαsscoρ]

some sort of character based level progression system
maybe this can be attributed to leveling weapons too since for a game like Dark Cloud, the characters don't really level up but their weapons do, and it's still considered an action RPG

there's certainly some wiggle room for interpretation, hence why I tend to see Zelda, Yakuza, or post Symphony Castlevania games get called RPGs even though I still wouldn't

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

some sort of character based level progression system
maybe this can be attributed to leveling weapons too since for a game like Dark Cloud, the characters don't really level up but their weapons do, and it's still considered an action RPG

there's certainly some wiggle room for interpretation, hence why I tend to see Zelda, Yakuza, or post Symphony Castlevania games get called RPGs even though I still wouldn't

I definitely see the leveling and progression as important, but I tend to think about the D&D roots. D&D includes lots of leveling and abilities, but is ultimately a bunch of players improving and stumbling through a story together.

 

[thePlinko]

I don’t think that narrative should be heavily considered in a mechanical sense when discussing an RPG, otherwise the original Dragon Quest wouldn’t be considered one.

The definition that I always use for “RPG” is “any game where the primary challenge comes from the indirect control of 1 or more characters.” The keyword there is “indirect,” meaning that you’re giving the character commands that he or she then follows, as opposed to something like Zelda where you’re directly controlling Link. This is why I don’t consider a stat or level system to be an “RPG element,” as well as why I wouldn’t call Elder Scrolls, Zelda 2, or the Symphony of the Night-styled Castlevanias “RPGs.”

 

[mαrkαsscoρ]

The definition that I always use for “RPG” is “any game where the primary challenge comes from the indirect control of 1 or more characters.” The keyword there is “indirect,” meaning that you’re giving the character commands that he or she then follows, as opposed to something like Zelda where you’re directly controlling Link. This is why I don’t consider a stat or level system to be an “RPG element,” as well as why I wouldn’t call Elder Scrolls, Zelda 2, or the Symphony of the Night-styled Castlevanias “RPGs.”

we've talked about this before but there exists action RPGs, what would you call the Tales of games, Mana, or Ys then?

I definitely see the leveling and progression as important, but I tend to think about the D&D roots. D&D includes lots of leveling and abilities, but is ultimately a bunch of players improving and stumbling through a story together.

you basically have that in JRPGs too though, a cast of characters stumbling together and embarking on a journey

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

we've talked about this before but there exists action RPGs, what would you call the Tales of games, Mana, or Ys then?

I'd even say something like Witcher 3. It's got very action heavy combat but falls in line with what I'd call a regular ol' RPG.

we've talked about this before but there exists action RPGs, what would you call the Tales of games, Mana, or Ys then?


you basically have that in JRPGs too though, a cast of characters stumbling together and embarking on a journey

I think the difference for me is more the interactions of the players. When I think of the games I'd call RPGs I tend to think of player choice and influence on the story, rather than just following a set of established characters as they make decisions sans any player input.

 

[mαrkαsscoρ]

I think the difference for me is more the interactions of the players. When I think of the games I'd call RPGs I tend to think of player choice and influence on the story, rather than just following a set of established characters as they make decisions sans any player input.

I think the idea is still there though w/ player agency being a big part in those games, even w/ the stories being more established and linear

also I just remembered the playstation website had a page as an overview to the genre, so just for the heck of it

Style and substance: The best JRPGs on PS4 and PS5 - guides & editorial | PlayStation

From iconic series like Final Fantasy to mind-bending existential masterpieces like NeiR: Automata, discover the most popular and critically acclaimed Japanese RPGs on PlayStation consoles.

www.playstation.com

 

[thePlinko]

we've talked about this before but there exists action RPGs, what would you call the Tales of games, Mana, or Ys then?

Now I’ve never played any of these (apart from the tiniest bit of secret of mana), but from what I’ve seen I definitely wouldn’t call them RPGs.

 

[mαrkαsscoρ]

Now I’ve never played any of these (apart from the tiniest bit of secret of mana), but from what I’ve seen I definitely wouldn’t call them RPGs.

I don't think you'll be convincing any fans of these games that they're not RPGs, especially when they're officially labeled as RPGs

TALES OF

One of the most iconic series in the history of Japanese RPG The Tales Of series is all about adventure in fantasy worlds, and overcoming obstacles through friendship and determination. During your journey, you will meet with a cast of endearing characters, bonding with them against wind and...

en.bandainamcoent.eu

 

[thePlinko]

I don't think you'll be convincing any fans of these games that they're not RPGs, especially when they're officially labeled as RPGs

TALES OF

One of the most iconic series in the history of Japanese RPG The Tales Of series is all about adventure in fantasy worlds, and overcoming obstacles through friendship and determination. During your journey, you will meet with a cast of endearing characters, bonding with them against wind and...

en.bandainamcoent.eu

I’m pretty sure Igarashi called SotN an RPG too. That doesn’t mean it is one.

 

[mαrkαsscoρ]

I’m pretty sure Igarashi called SotN an RPG too. That doesn’t mean it is one.

SotN isn't regularly labeled an RPG like those other series I mentioned, not all RPGs are turned based

 

[thePlinko]

SotN isn't regularly labeled an RPG like those other series I mentioned,

I tend to see it called an RPG more often than not.

SotN isn't regularly labeled an RPG like those other series I mentioned, not all RPGs are turned based

I never said that they were. Indirect control doesn’t mean turn based.

 

[mαrkαsscoρ]

I tend to see it called an RPG more often than not.


I never said that they were. Indirect control doesn’t mean turn based.

I see "RPG elements" for sure, but if you look at say a bunch of top 10 lists of best ps1 RPGs, it'll vary as to whether or not you'll see it on there, despite it being acclaimed as being one of the best games on the system

while true enough, I don't see a reason why direct control would somehow negate it being an RPG

 

[thePlinko]

while true enough, I don't see a reason why direct control would somehow negate it being an RPG

Well it’s mainly because indirect control is the most common element that unites the vast majority of RPGs that isn’t “has stats.”

We already agree that “stats” don’t necessarily make a game an RPG, right? I also wouldn’t call a stat system an RPG element either for that reason. I want to define the genre to something that’s almost exclusive to it, and the only thing I can think of is “indirect control of 1 or more characters” as it’s primary challenge.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

Well it’s mainly because indirect control is the most common element that unites the vast majority of RPGs that isn’t “has stats.”

We already agree that “stats” don’t necessarily make a game an RPG, right? I also wouldn’t call a stat system an RPG element either for that reason. I want to define the genre to something that’s almost exclusive to it, and the only thing I can think of is “indirect control of 1 or more characters” as it’s primary challenge.

I dunno if indirect control would really describe most RPGs. Stuff like Baldur's Gate offers direct control of the party's actions, but it has a lot more dialogue and player input on the story.