General Zelda What if We Lose a Fight?

[Mangachick14]

Now this title may seem kind of odd, so let me explain. A little while ago, I created a thread about why the villains don't go after you more than they do. Many people answered that if the villain kept coming after you and losing, then they wouldn't feel very threatening, and I guess I agree. However I do still feel that having the villain sit on a throne somewhere far away, not even trying to thwart my progress makes me feel just as intimidated--that being not at all. So I thought that a good way to establish the villain as well as make him seem like a threat might be if you (Link) actually lose a fight near the beginning of a game.

Now, bear with me, because I know people might not like being beaten. But I think it could be a good way to motivate players even better than the 'saving important person' concept. Having been beaten and left for dead by the villain will likely make you want to redeem yourself by fighting and winning against him/her, not to mention give the villain a reason not to go after you since they think you're already dead. It could show Link's growth in power from a regular boy into a hero by the end of the game, which would be good from a plot standpoint. It could also serve as a way to bring Zelda into the plot and make her seem stronger and more compelling, if she's the one who saves you (She seemed to have healing powers in ALttP :thinking.

So what do you guys think of the idea of having Link actually lose a fight for once?

EDIT: This would also be a scripted event that the player participates in, not just a cutscene.

 

[ihateghirahim]

i think it could be a great motivator. Your failure can build your drive to win. It can add tension and a desire to see the game to it's finish. I like the idea.

Besides, isn't this what happens when Ganondorf gets the Triforce in WW?

 

[TMLink76240]

YES! It would make Link look more realistic, and would provide more reason why you should become more wise and powerful through the game.
I think they should've done this with TP; it would've perfectly suited the game.

 

[r2d93]

Yes I couldn't agree more. I need a blow to my self esteem to make me actually feel threatened. And it's a great tool to develop a true hatred for the villain which I always like. But they'd have to pull it off well if it's the main villain of the game. If they're around too much they won't have that intimidating "untouchable" feeling

I think they should've done this with TP; it would've perfectly suited the game.

In a way they soort of kind of did it with Zant. After Lakebed Temple Zant shows up and kind of kicks Midna's *** steals the fused shadows and turns you into a puppy and pretty much tells you to stop messing around haha

 

[DarkestLink]

Having revenge as a motive doesn't seem...appropriate...for the target audience.

 

[Mangachick14]

Having revenge as a motive doesn't seem...appropriate...for the target audience.

Revenge is the motive for the player, not Link.

 

[ihateghirahim]

Na, Link shouldn't be motivated by vengeance, only justice. He's the chosen hero to be the light. He shouldn't be seeking vengeance.

 

[Mangachick14]

Na, Link shouldn't be motivated by vengeance, only justice. He's the chosen hero to be the light. He shouldn't be seeking vengeance.

Again, that's the player's motive. Link can still be motivated by justice.

 

[ihateghirahim]

aren't we supposed to project ourselves onto Link and feel what he feels? Isn't he the link between us and the experience of the game?

 

[Mangachick14]

aren't we supposed to project ourselves onto Link and feel what he feels? Isn't he the link between us and the experience of the game?

Originally, yes. But lately, Nintendo has been making Link his own character. The player having different motivations than the character they play as is nothing new, it's been there the whole series. Link saved the world because it's justice. We're controlling him saving the world because it's fun to us.

 

[Fraxinus]

This has already been done, to a certain extent, if you think about it. During Link's encounters with villains in a few titles of the series, Link doesn't necessarily "lose" but he definitely isn't deemed victorious. Just because it's not part of the gameplay doesn't mean it's not expressing a negative confrontation/battle on Link's part. But, yeah... what about that one cutscene in The Wind Waker during Link's second visit to the Forsaken Fortress and barely escapes alive? That's intimidating, isn't it? Even in Ocarina of Time when Zelda is being chased on horseback, Link is defenseless and gets attacked by Ganondorf.

I wouldn't necessarily say that events such as these couldn't be taken further, but it has been done on some level. I, personally, always thought it would be cool if Nintendo structured a game spanning more than one generation because the first hero gets killed off and you have a hand in that. But that's a little impersonal because the next hero wouldn't have actual knowledge of that, but the player would.

 

[Doc]

I feel like what you explained has been done before. In The Wind Waker, Link gets beaten by Ganondorf twice (yes, I consider the first time Ganandorf beating him). I love this concept, not for motivation but for intimidation. Ghirahim failed to intimidate players because there is no establishment that he is greater than Link, IMO. But then when facing a villain like WW Ganon, I am much more frightened of the final battle. Twice, Link failed! Twice! I would perhaps want to see something like this once more, maybe another time farther down the line.

 

[mαrkαsscoρ]

yeah we kinda have seen this before [not trying to copy those guys,reading that just made me think of the ganon encounter in ocarina of time]

 

[Salem]

If losing a fight is given to us INSTEAD of having a cutscene where Link loses a fight like the Kakariko village one in OoT and the times Ganon fights Link in WW, then I'm up for it.

 

[Ventus]

Having Link be defeated requires one thing: a scripted event. Immediately what comes to mind is Kingdom Hearts II. As soon as you first gain control of Sora, you have to fight a new enemy. Of course, them being new and Sora newly awakened, Sora and co. lose the fight no matter what. It's an endurance thing, and Sora canonically does not have the endurance as of that point in time. Something similar could (and should) happen to Link. He'll come at a new enemy thinking "hah I'm an fukin hreo" and get beaten, then some story important character woudl reveal that he just isn't of the proper skill level...yet.