Spoiler Skyward Sword Ending Discussion Thread (OoT and SS Spoilers)

[Kaepora]

That's a lot for someone named silent link and also could mallard us be the same as demise because in Fi's info he is said to appear differently to everyone and Cole refers to him as " the demon king" just like demise and Cole's personality is very similar to Ghirahim's. A speculation but it makes sense.

 

[SNOlink]

Skyward Sword: Second Timeline Split?

I have been meaning to write this thread for a while now, but never actually got to it. I finished Skyward Sword almost a week ago now and the same question has been running through my mind since then: Did Skyward Sword end with a split? It's just really confusing me because the ending had qualities of both a linear and a split timeline.

Linear: The Goddess Statue and the Triforce were still in the Sealing Ground at the end. This would not have been needed to destroy Demise if he had been destroyed in the past by the Master Sword.

Split: The Master Sword is present in the Sealed Temple. Obviously when you were going through the game the first time, we did not see the Master Sword back there at all. Only after you defeated Demise.

So which side do you think I'm on? Well, even though I'm pretty much a die hard linearist, I think I'm leaning more towards split. Why? Well, it's because of something that Zelda says before she goes into her thousand-year slumber.

"In order to put an end to the demon king, Hylia devised two seperate plans and set them both into motion."

Zelda doesn't say that Hylia made two parts of a plan. She said they were two seperate plans. Why would she need two seperate plans and work them both at the same time? The answer: She knew about what Ghirahim would do,and formed two plans to help prevent his return in both streams of time.

Plan 1: "First, she created Fi. She made the spirit that resides in your sword to serve a single purpose: to assisst her chosen hero on his mission."

This part actually helps in both streams. Link destroys Demise in the past with the Master Sword and keeps Demise in the Sealing Spike so that Demise would get destroyed by the Goddess Statue in the present.

Plan 2: "Her second plan...was to abandon her divine form and transfer her soul to the body of a mortal. ...She made this sacrifice, as you have likely guesseed, so that the supreme power created by the old gods could one day be used. For while the supreme power of the Triforce was created by gods, all of its power could never be wielded by one. ..."

Now this actually doesn't entirely pertain to the other plan. The thing is, as you probably already know, Zelda herself doesn't actually get the Triforce. It seems like that, for one reason or another, someone couldn't actually get the Triforce unless she did this. If this were true, it would be obvious that the Triforce would be used to actually destroy Demise in the present. But, as I said, it really doesn't seem like that. What I think could be the reason for this is that if Hylia never gave Zelda her immortal soul, she never would have been brought down to the surface by Ghirahim, Link would not have had reason to go down there, and Demise would escape. We can kind of see this in something else Zelda says.

"And so Hylia...I mean, and so I...I knew that if it meant saving Zelda, you would throw yourself headfirst into any danger, without even a moment's doubt...I...I used you."

As we can see here, she definitely says she used Zelda and Link to help save the surface.

 

[cucco002]

While nothing stops Nintendo from creating a split in SS, there is not a split.

What Link did in the past has already happened in the present, Link defeating Demise at the end help the seal to last the thousands of years between the past and the present. The sword probably is still there, somewhere at the sealed temple, that would explain why the monster without consciousness tries to reach the temple, that or he tries to reach Zelda (that is more likely, as the game makes it seem), that we can see behind the door since the beginning of the game.

And talking about Zelda begin in the temple (inside the orange crystal), that help us to understand how it already happened in the past, the bracelet that gave to Impa is also there.

But that doesn't mean nothing could be changed, remember what happens with the Lanayru Dragon and the Tree of Life?. It is a video game and we can expect the laws of time-travel to be applied correctly. But I can find a way to explain it. The time travel in Zelda started with OoT, from this game we have 3 timelines, but only 2 of them are part of the split. Remember how we tried to explain the third timeline at first? with the "Link had to go back for the Lents of Truth... Spirit Temple..., etc" but it was not really that?, well, in SS we have something similar.

The changes in the past that come to the future are not creating splits, a good example is the Tree of Life, we plant it in the past and it appears in the future, there will be split? there could be a split, but there is a very similar example in OoT, and we have no split or official split. In OoT we have the magical beans, only when we plant them in the past they appear in the future, but there is not going to be a split for that.

The only way I can explain why the last travel in OoT created a split is because Zelda was the one sending Link back in time, this time it is done with the ocarina of time, and Link is send back to a time way before he pulled the Master Sword from the pedestal, to a different time.

In conclusion, there is not really a split in SS, but who says Nintendo would not like to make some changes in the future?

 

[Hitokiri_Ace]

Alright, I've read all of your guys' posts and thoughts, but I still think it goes down like this..

From the beginning of the game Zelda is sealed inside the crystal, and Impa has Zelda's bracelet. Therefore that sets out the theory that it's all predetermined that those events will, and have already, unfolded. No split time-line, just you doing what you would do, regardless. Destiny, set in stone by your own actions.

So, anyways. That sets out the idea that your events you make occur, are predestined. If you think about the end of the game, Fi says that Demise's residual conscience is sealed away in the Master Sword. Not destroyed, but sealed.

Then at the endgame you seal that sword in a pedestal in the past, where Impa, and sealed in the crystal Zelda watch over the seal. Yet, if Zelda is there since the beginning, then, the Master Sword must have been there in the future as well right? Right, and it was. Actually, my guess is that Impa took the sword, and created the sealing spike, using the Master Sword as it's center. Which explains why a Skyward Strike "charges" up the pedestal to seal it a little longer. Giving the sword a little more power extends the seals duration, no? So that's why the Master Sword is never really seen by you, even though Impa knew where it was. Also, since Demise needed to get to Zelda (who was sealed up in the temple) to restore himself to his former power. Impa, of course probably thought leaving the sword so close to the sealed Zelda was a bad idea. Rightfully so... Still kinda weird to think, you "killing" Demise in the past at the end game, was the original seal you had been restoring throughout the game. That also explains why you still needed the Triforce in the present to actually kill Demise. You sealed Demise in the past, and throughout time the Master Sword was losing power, so until you used the Triforce wish to kill him for good in the present he could've came back.

Long story short..The seal that you assumed was Hylia's doing? Was more than likely the Master Sword in the sealing spike augmenting and making Hylia's seal stronger. As you notice there was no sealing spike originally in the past. Impa was messing with stuff, and helped guide you to fulfill what she knew you could/would do.

That is what seems most likely to me, but if you see any holes or want to discuss, feel free.

 

[InoShikaCho]

From the beginning of the game Zelda is sealed inside the crystal, and Impa has Zelda's bracelet. Therefore that sets out the theory that it's all predetermined that those events will, and have already, unfolded. No split time-line, just you doing what you would do, regardless. Destiny, set in stone by your own actions.

If that is the case, then why is the Tree of Life not already in the Sealed Temple when you enter it the first time?

If you think about the end of the game, Fi says that Demise's residual conscience is sealed away in the Master Sword. Not destroyed, but sealed.

This is true, but Impa says that "the last remnants of Demise are decaying slowly within the sword." Also, while Demise's residual conscience is sealed in the Master Sword, Fi does say that he has been eradicated. Finally, why would you use the Master Sword as a sealing spike to strengthen the seal of what is already in the Master Sword?

 

[Lukémon]

When you actually stop and think about the Zelda timeline, it get's very complicated. I'd like to post a rather long post explaining what I think about the situation, but I honestly haven't got a clue what to think about it. I just think that Hylia did what she did to stop Demise, Link was protecting Zelda/Hylia, as was according to her plan, Ghirahim revives Demise, Link kills Demise, then my theory get's a little different to everyone elses, I think that Demise used the last of his power to seal his hatred inside his sword, then teleport it away somewhere ( most likely the dessert ), then, Ghirahim absorbed Demise's hatred and was reincarnated as Ganondorf. I've got no proof on the matter, except for the fact that Demise's sword/Ghirahim disappear and that Demise said his hatred would be reincarnated. But I just think it would be a rather cool way to think about things.

 

[DudeSonic1]

When you actually stop and think about the Zelda timeline, it get's very complicated. I'd like to post a rather long post explaining what I think about the situation, but I honestly haven't got a clue what to think about it. I just think that Hylia did what she did to stop Demise, Link was protecting Zelda/Hylia, as was according to her plan, Ghirahim revives Demise, Link kills Demise, then my theory get's a little different to everyone elses, I think that Demise used the last of his power to seal his hatred inside his sword, then teleport it away somewhere ( most likely the dessert ), then, Ghirahim absorbed Demise's hatred and was reincarnated as Ganondorf. I've got no proof on the matter, except for the fact that Demise's sword/Ghirahim disappear and that Demise said his hatred would be reincarnated. But I just think it would be a rather cool way to think about things.

I've never thought about the possibility of Ghirahim/Sword disappearing. I was just assuming that the disappearing was just him being destroyed. However, Demise must be Ganondorf due to him just being a reincarnation of Demise's hatred. But there is still the possibility of the hatred using Ghirahim's body as a vessal.
Personally, I always thought that Demise would end up as Ganondorf and Ghirahim was sealed away to eventually become Zant. But that was before I actually beat the game.

Off-topic: Any thoughts as to whether or not Demise created the fused shadows via some dark magic?

 

[Michael Heide]

And that backs up DuckNoises' theory; you take the seed out of the future, bring it into the past, plant it, and then, when returning to the "present," Groose acted like the tree was there the whole time because it WAS there the whole time, thanks to Link planting the seed in the past.

And yet later, Link steps through the portal, which is then destroyed by Impa. Back in the present, the portal should already be destroyed, but instead it exists long enough for Link to step out of it. How is that possible?

 

[Jxudo]

You know there could be so many theories and arguments about the Zelda timeline and how it all fits together and how the time actually works.
What if Nintendo just never put any thought into it? What if their just making Zelda games with stories of their own that have bits and pieces of other events that occur in other Zelda games.
In Skyward Sword they explained a lot about everyone's origin, but there are still things that don't fit perfectly.
I'm really not sure if there is actually a "proper" Zelda timeline, even at Nintendo.

 

[Smoore]

Off-topic: Any thoughts as to whether or not Demise created the fused shadows via some dark magic?

I don't think it was Demise himself, but I think it was his followers. My theory is that sometime prior to the backstory of Skyward Sword, the Dark Tribe followed Demise. The Light Spirits tried to banish them, but a few escaped. Ghirahim obviously escaped, as did Demise. (This was before Ghirahim devoted is soul to becoming a weapon for Demise.) The Dark Tribe had already created the Fused Shadows at this point. Actually, I guess it could have been Demise himself who created it. In any case… Batreaux also escaped banishment because he repented and paid homage to the Goddess, so she allowed him to live with the humans as a guardian. And finally, a segment of the Dark Tribe went into self-exile in the depths of the desert, well beyond what would eventually become Gerudo territory. The Zuna gave up their evil ways and became a peaceful tribe, but they still worshiped Demise in their temple. Over the centuries, their perception of him changed so that they forgot about his evil. After Demise was defeated in the past, some Zuna managed to secure the Dark Master Sword. Broken and largely robbed of power, it was a useless relic. But a bit of Demise's soul clung to it all the same, so the Zuna refashioned it into a trident and placed it deep within their temple. For a millennia afterward, they worshiped it as the last remaining icon of their god. Finally, a sapling Ganondorf broke into the temple and claimed the trident, establishing himself as the successor of Demise. Thus, after the sages banished him to the Twilight Realm at Link's insistence, Zant immediately recognized him as a powerful god—he contained the essence of Demise that had been resting within the trident. The Fused Shadow was fool's play compared to the soul of Demise in Ganondorf, who by this time also possessed the Triforce of Power.

**BACK ON TOPIC NOW**

I need to replay Skyward Sword to get a better feel for the timeline, but I generally agree with you, Jxudo. As you can see from the above paragraph I wrote, there is so much more potential for the Zelda stories than Nintendo seems willing to recognize. Backstories don't have to be isolated events, and the timeline can actually fit together tightly like a puzzle. The ¿split? in Skyward Sword throws me off majorly, but I wish that they would put more thought into the timeline in general.

 

[piraka12]

over the matter of destroying the timegate is simple the timegate is something that exsist out side the normal time and is if destroyed in any time doesn't matter when for ever destroyed so in the future but in the past too but people who used it are not like they never used it becasue it is what is said something outside the time and space

 

[Demise24680]

This kind of confuses me tough although they all have a greaty source of adventure in there gameplay!

 

[Andkon]

Here's my idea. when Fi went into the master sword maybe part of her didn't make it into it thus creating the even more annoying then Fi, Navi.

 

[chucker173]

Ya the thing is TIME TRAVEL IS IMPOSSIBLE so al the talk about time space continuum and paradox is way to complicated for this game I think the intended goal of the creators of the Legend of Zelda was a much more simple answer than what most people have made it out to be.

 

[darkvaati99]

The fact that the future wasn't demolished by Demise when you time travel is that Demise exists outside of time. Fi stated that he had conquered time and Axle The Beast even talked about this.