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General Modern Should the Six Starting Hearts Return in Future Games?

Should the starting 6 hearts return?

  • Yes

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  • No

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  • Undecided

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Demise_

Gwoh hoh hoh!
In SS, the game started with Link having 6 heart containers instead of the usual 3. This has never really happened before (except in spin-offs and such); but do you think it should be done again?


My personal opinion is definitely yes. The only con that I see is that something which has been a tradition in throughout the whole series will be removed, without being an actual innovation; but should we really stick to tradition instead of improving the games?

My main argument is about the scaling of the challenge in the games. Let's take OOT for example. As you started playing it for the first time, you had only 3 hearts, nearly 0 skill, maybe even were unused to 3D gaming in general (though not necessarily) etc. So enemies had to deal small damage to let you survive during the first dungeon; as a result, they all dealt 1/2 heart of damage.

The problem is that immediately after the first dungeon, you gain access to most of the overworld, with only 1 extra heart and very little extra skill. So all the enemies found in the overworld also deal 1/2 heart of damage. So throughout the game, nearly all enemies damage you only by 1/2 heart, and even enemies found later on (e.g. torch slugs) still stick to this "standard" amount.

Towards the end of the game, you will have at least 11 heart containers; plus, even a first-time inexperienced player can be expected to come across some heart pieces (even if by accident), so we can assume that you will have about 14 heart container. This allows you to take 28 half-heart hits - nearly 5 times more than at the beginning; add to this the fact that you're probably much more skilled, and the game turns out to be about 7-8 times easier than at the beginning.

But does the game raise the challenge 7-8 times? Probably not. Sure, Stalfos deal 1 or even 2 hearts of damage, Redeads are annoying and Blue Tektites have 2x as much health as the red ones; but Stalfos aren't very frequent, and become a breeze towards the end of the game, Redeads are easy to avoid/stun, and BTs still deal 1/2 heart of damage and aren't close to anything like a threat, however small. (And since I know people are gonna ask, there are only 3 Iron Knuckles in the game before you get double defense and they become nothing more than slow Stalfos.)


My point is that in OOT, I can't help coming near to Game Over several times in the Great Deku Tree, and maybe dying once or twice (especially on MQ), but never die again throughout the game.


Now for SS. It's 6-heart system really fixes that. The "standard" damage throughout the game is one whole heart; this means that while the beginning isn't harder than OOT's one, the end, when you have about 17 or so heart containers, isn't 8 times easier; and each heart container doesn't give you 2 extra hits, but only one. At the same time, SS scales its combat accordingly; at first, you only encounter Red Bokoblins, but towards the middle-end, Blue Bokoblins and Moblins are the norm. All this combines to make the game challenging and fun throughout, and you become encourages skill improvement to increase your chances of survival.


So, what do you think? Should future games continue what SS started, or try to improve the 3-heart system?
 
i dont think i mind if 6 hearts come or go, i like collecting heart containers in Zelda and starting with six made me feel quite powerful in SS, the game was pretty easy and the 6 hearts seemed to be more of charity more so than anything else, and a cheap move for taking yet more collectibles out of the game..

But i dont mind six or three, its hard to die in a Zelda game with both so it didnt bother me at all and i wouldnt be opposed either way
 

HylianHero

Gardener of Elysium
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Location
Academia de Hyrule
My first instinct is too say no. By starting out with six hearts, you eliminate three dungeons or 12 (or if it is five hearts pieces to container 15) heart pieces. I would much rather have more content than risking me dying in the first part of the game. You could possibly make the sword do more damage or something to offset your low health early on. Now Demise_ your argument is very compelling, but again, I would rather have more content in the game at the risk of more Game Over screens early on.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
I don't think it matters either way. I wouldn't be surprised if it goes back to 3 from here on out, since the 6 hearts in SS were clearly there due to the intense learning curve, but I think it would be kinda cool to see handheld titles use 3 and console titles us 6.
 

Moonstone

embrace the brand new day
Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Actually, I think it should depend. If we get another adult Link, I'd be happy to see him have 6 hearts (I dunno, general life experience or whatnot.). If we get a child Link, I think they should start with three or four hearts. Just my opinion.
 

DarkestLink

Darkest of all Dark Links
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
No. It was only a cheap way to needlessly remove content and made the game overly easy to begin with.
 

Demise_

Gwoh hoh hoh!
My first instinct is too say no. By starting out with six hearts, you eliminate three dungeons or 12 (or if it is five hearts pieces to container 15) heart pieces. I would much rather have more content than risking me dying in the first part of the game. You could possibly make the sword do more damage or something to offset your low health early on. Now Demise_ your argument is very compelling, but again, I would rather have more content in the game at the risk of more Game Over screens early on.

Actually, the main argument is that the game is too easy at the end, not that it's too hard in the beginning. Might have phrased that badly. :bleh: Because in OOT, the normal damage is 1/2 heart, so you can get hit 5 times before a game over; while in SS, although you have 6 hearts, the normal damage is one whole heart, thus amounting to the exact same amount of possible hits. The difference comes in at the end, when in SS you have 2-3 times more health while in other games you have 5-6 times more health.


Though I do agree with your argument, I think that properly scaling difficulty and having improved general gameplay is more important than having more heart pieces. These seem like a cheapish way to throw in more sidequest content. I think that having less heart pieces, but instead having a new and well-designed sidequest wouldn't hurt either.
 

SpiritGerudo

Flamey-o, Hotman!
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Location
Halfway There
I guess I never thought about it like you said, Demise: that having six hearts makes the game easier at the beginning and harder at the end. However, Nintendo could easily fix this by just making enemies harder . . . and then we have opportunities for more bonus content, such as trading sequences, for heart pieces, which Nintendo's been slacking off on of late . . . *COUGHGoddessChestsCOUGH* So I think starting with six hearts really just isn't needed.
 
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Ventus

Mad haters lmao
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May 26, 2010
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Akkala
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Hylian Champion
No. Not only does this make early AND endgame too easy, but it severely stunts the creativity as far as meaningful secrets go. 3 hearts equates to 12 or 15 heart pieces - why should we have those at the start of the game? No, those hearts should be EARNED.
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Location
On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
No. Not only does this make early AND endgame too easy, but it severely stunts the creativity as far as meaningful secrets go. 3 hearts equates to 12 or 15 heart pieces - why should we have those at the start of the game? No, those hearts should be EARNED.

We could always go with 5 pieces for a 6 heart start.

I also don't think it automatically makes things too easy. I would have died multiple times in the Skyview Temple if it weren't for dem 3 extra hearts.
 

DarkestLink

Darkest of all Dark Links
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
No. Not only does this make early AND endgame too easy, but it severely stunts the creativity as far as meaningful secrets go. 3 hearts equates to 12 or 15 heart pieces - why should we have those at the start of the game? No, those hearts should be EARNED.

Or 3 dungeons.
 

Ventus

Mad haters lmao
Joined
May 26, 2010
Location
Akkala
Gender
Hylian Champion
We could always go with 5 pieces for a 6 heart start.

I also don't think it automatically makes things too easy. I would have died multiple times in the Skyview Temple if it weren't for dem 3 extra hearts.

That's true. But, I still prefer 3 hearts because conservative.
 

ihateghirahim

The Fierce Deity
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Location
Inside the Moon
We need to up the ante as far as difficulty. Play OoT and then play SS. We have lost a lot of difficulty over the years. Zelda needs to become harder and more serious. SS just felt too east when you combine the Sheikah Stone hints, dungeon ease, and the six hearts. I can only see six hearts being used in a special mode called "Baby Mode". Honestly that would be pretty cool if they actually did it.
 

Azure Sage

Join your hands...
Staff member
ZD Legend
Comm. Coordinator
I wouldn't mind either way, but I think an important factor is how difficult the game will actually be. Lord knows I needed the six hearts in the beginning of Skyward Sword, or else Ghirahim would've wiped the floor with me a whole bunch of times. And like you said, the game gradually gets more challenging. The six hearts were necessary for Skyward Sword. Whether future games use six starting hearts or not should depend on the difficulty level. Games with a difficulty like Majora's Mask's for example (I'd say the player could benefit from six starting hearts in that game) should get the six hearts. But if the game is going to be easier, like Twilight Princess or Phantom Hourglass, then three hearts will be plenty to start with.
 

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