Non-linearity Vs Involved Overworld

[Spirit]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here in regards to all the non-linearity discussions following Aonuma's statement on Nintendo Direct.

We all know that he vaguely hinted at something that could possibly mean some form of non linearity, and so let us run with that notion and if it is needed at all.

I'm currently playing Wind Waker (in my excitement for WWHD) and you are given the opportunity to sail to wherever you want in the game's massive overworld quite early on. Having played WW numerous times before and being intimately familiar with it, i was kind of overwhelmed at how much was suddenly open to me with the ability to go anywhere (save later dungeons) I wanted. I could spend days pillaging watchtowers, raiding submarines, salvaging sunken treasure, doing sidequests, collecting charts and maps and many other things... all before the next dungeon.

So, here is the point; do we really need non-linearity in dungeons when we could have such an involving overworld? If we were to spend so long in an overworld which combined leisure and progression (on the collectable front at least; treasure, heart pieces etc) would a set order of dungeons really make a difference? We would spend so long in the overworld that any dungeon would just feel like the next dungeon so why not the next one that the story needs?

So, involved overworld which gives the adventure scale to make the game have a sense of freedom or dungeons in any order to make the game have a sense of freedom?

 

[JuicieJ]

and you are given the opportunity to sail to wherever you want in the game's massive overworld quite early on.

Ehhhhhh, it's actually not really open until after the third dungeon. The game is pretty restrictive about where you can go until then.

Anyway, I don't see why these two things have to be mutually exclusive. I mean, A Link to the Past merged them together seamlessly. Quite honestly, I don't see why anyone would WANT them to be mutually exclusive. Getting one or the other is like getting a cake with no icing. It may be good, but it's not complete. Zelda needs to have both of these features if it wants to provide the ultimate "Zelda experience".

 

[Justac00lguy]

Even though I like the idea of exploration in TWW if a Zelda game was to have a hugely open overworld that you could explore from the outset would kind of put me off!

However I love the Fallout series and in Fallout you could go out and explore pretty much 2 hours into the game maybe even less. What Fallout did though was that in the overworld you would come across tough enemies so if you decided to explore far out into the world you would clme across tough enemies with little experience and lack of powerful weapons! This made the game feel more real as you coukd explore if you insisted too but however there would be a very significant challenge if you did so!

I think if a Zelda game were to take this approach of Non-Linearity they would have to limit off some areas in case of Spoilers but they could also instead of just putting a physical barrier in the way there could be other methods like having tougher enemies out in the overworld, maybe even a boss that guards a certain province! This would create the illusion of Non-Linearity but without complete freedom to explore...

 

[Ventus]

Having an involved overworld and non-linearity in dungeons are not mutually exclusive. Tons of MMORPGs nail this very well, specifically Guild Wars 2 in which you can travel the base overworld at any moment in the game, at whatever level you might be, still complete engaging quests, and you even have a personal story to advance your line as a Hero(ine) of Tyria.

Zelda could do this as well. There's no reason why I can't traverse the overworld as I did in The Wind Waker, have an engaging story like Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword, but complete most if not all dungeons in any order like Legend of Zelda allows me to.

We especially should get non-linear dungeons alongside a great overworld if the next Zelda games will feature mundane quest item collecting. Why should my getting shard 4 after shard 3 matter if we're just looking for the entire thing? That's right; it's shouldn't.

 

[DarkestLink]

Eh, I'd rather have a closed overworld until we do some dungeons. I hate running into sidequests by accident during my first run of the main quest, they detract from the real story and I always trying to get out of them ASAP because I don't know if I can do them or not and don't want to be found in the position of being stuck in a sidequest but not being sure if it's because I'm just stuck or because I don't have the proper methods to do the quest.

 

[Satsy]

This is a very good question. Where's my thinking hat...

Having only just gotten Wind Waker back out (unlike others, I haven't played this a whole lot), I've just found myself about to tackle Dragon Roost Island. Before I'm even through I'm thinking about getting that grapple, finding the map fish, and finding any and every island I can for any and all different items and bonuses.

It reminds me of both AoL and LttP, where once I had the item, I'd dash off to find bonuses. I'd never start the next dungeon early, since that still felt 'wrong', but it was entirely possible.

So would this idea of non-linearity be their way of saying "We know you do this anyway, so go nuts!"?

An overworld I can explore to find helpful items would probably be more productive to my journey than a lax approach to dungeons. Frankly, this raises concerns for the increasing difficulty against enemies. Will that be going out with linearity? Or will they be non-linear but there'll always be an 'advised path' for them?

 

[2bmc]

I am totally down with an overworld that has many options of exploration early on that only gets greater as you acquire items. Order of dungeons doesn't matter to me.
However, one of my biggest pet peeves is when the entire game is linear and then all of a sudden there's one moment of nonlinearity, such as in SS when you all of sudden have a choice in the Song of the Hero (which ultimately would be screwed up by that glitch if you did the Lanayru area before the others). For some reason it's always seemed gimmicky to me... "The rest of the game we made you follow a set path so for this tiny section we will let you choose what way to go"

Also, if anyone wants to share, what are your thoughts on having the structure of dungeons individually being nonlinear?

 

[The Wanderer]

First of all, as JuicieJ said, The Wind Waker's supposed openness early in the game is not quite as open as it would first seem. I tried exploring at my own pace before reaching the first or second dungeon, and the King of Red Lions just insisted I turn around after a certain point and forced me back. The game doesn't actually open up until the midway point.

But anyway, if I were to choose either non-linear dungeons or an involved overworld, but not both, I'd take an involved overworld. We can still have the freedom to explore and be our own heroes without doing dungeons in whatever order we want. Besides, the concept of exploration is more integral to Zelda than the concept of open choice; the latter is highly important, but still second fiddle to the big picture. Zelda needs a huge, open overworld with hundreds of little secrets, dungeons, caves, collectibles, and sidequests more than it needs dungeons with arbitrary order.

But as I've pointed out before, Nintendo can easily do both if they set their minds to it. We can have deep, intricate stories, difficult but fun gameplay, and an effective sense of freedom with an involved overworld and non-linear dungeons. They'll hopefully realize the potential of non-linearity and capitalize on it without messing anything up, but I have confidence in them so far.

 

[Castle]

If you look at the very first TLoZ game, the overworld was the link between the dungeons. TLoZ had a very open overworld with dungeons that were available in almost any order. The bulk of the fun of that title was in scouring over every pixel of Hyrule looking for that next secret dungeon or hidden cave. What good is a wide open overworld that limits the dungeons that are available to a pre-determined series?

Take Majora's Mask for instance. One of the biggest things that irk me about Majora's Mask is the way the overworld is cordoned off so arbitrarily until you complete the last dungeon. Can't get to Great Bay without the horse, but you aren't getting the horse until you beat Snowhead. You can't get to Snowhead without the arrows from Woodfall. Why the FRACK can't I get into Great Bay just because? Or... why not design it so I can complete Great Bay first if I want to? Then Woodfall... then Snowhead and maybe then Ikana Canyon? All this time almost all of Termina would be open to exploration.

Much of the fun of the first TLoZ was in finding the dungeons yourself, not having to wait until the game lead you there when it was ready. Uncovering those secrets was met with much satisfaction as was the adventure's primary draw.