Majora's Mask Origins

[Mikau94]

In Majora's Mask the mask salesman mentions that Majora's mask was used by an ancient tribe, do you think this tribe is the Sheikah? They are ancient, there is only one left. Do you think that the tribe could be the Twili, they were know as evil magicians in Twilight Princess?

 

[Zeruda]

You have to remember that the ancient tribe the salesmen talks about is probably of Terminan origins, and not of Hyrule. Some people speculate that the Sheikah are the banished tribe mentioned in Twilight Princess, but there isn't any real proof to back that up. In fact, Impaz' existence is almost enough to completely debunk that theory. On top of that, the Sheikah are a race from Hyrule, which is in a world completely parallel to Termina. So, even if they were the banished tribe, it wouldn't matter- they'd have no relation to any of the tribes from Termina, and therefore the tribe mentioned by the salesman would not be the Twili.

Termina and Hyrule are parallel worlds. They have their own gorons, zoras, etc. Termina probably has its own Sheikah as well, who probably met a fate completely different to the Sheikah in Hyrule. The Twilight Realm is the antithesis of Hyrule:

"They were banished. They were chased across the sacred lands of Hyrule and driven into another realm by the goddesses. It was another world entirely... The antithesis of Hyrule, where the sun shines bright"

This is a place where a Hyrulean (evil)tribe was banished, not a Terminan tribe as far as we know. Since Majora's Mask, there has not been any mention of the tribe the salesman spoke of, and there will probably never be any mention. I think that was the point; by not giving out any specifics of the tribe, it was made out to be more mysterious and spooky.

Just because a tribe uses magic, it doesn't mean they are going to be that banished tribe mentioned in Twilight Princess. There is no real mention of the Sheikah using any forms of magic- they only really have the Lens of Truth. It's possible that the Mask of Truth belongs to Termina's version of the Sheikah, but also possible that it was just carried over from Hyrule as it's found in Ocarina of Time. Or they could both have it. In any case, they don't seem to use sorcery. However, the Gerudo may have magical powers, seeing as Ganondorf showed these powers before ever obtaining his portion of the Triforce of Power and Koume and Kotake have their own powers. There are other races that seem to be able to use other forms of power, so you can't really use magical ability as a reason to peg any of the races as the ones being banished.

In all, it's very unlikely that any race from Termina is the banished race mentioned in Twilight Princess.

 

[Nicole]

OK, now i am the TP expert, and it's just about the only thing i know about.
Backing up to the part where Lanayru tells u about the "interlopers who excelled at magic tried to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm" and then were banished to a different world, i don't believe it was a whole tribe he talked about, but a small group. In the cutscene, there were only 3 people, and i don't think that counts as a tribe.
And not to get off topic, but isn't it Ganondorf who tried to control the Sacred Realm? (YES) And after u beat Arbiter's Grounds, the sages told u that they sucked Ganondorf into the Twilight Realm. Wasn't he the person/"interloper" who was banished?

 

[Zeruda]

Yes, Ganondorf was banished. But the Dark Interlopers are plural because there is an "s", meaning that there was more than one person banished.

"Among those living in the light, interlopers who excelled at magic appeared. Wielding powerful sorcery, they tried to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm."

So, yes, Ganon did try to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm, but many people did. In A Link to the Past, people who sought the Golden Power (Triforce) were trapped and twisted in the realm. Not all of them were Ganon's followers. An example of this is the Old Man's grandson (flute boy) who disappeared while searching for the Triforce.

As for the "3 people", that was merely an iconic depiction. The use of Dark Link model was symbolic of peoples' darker, greedier sides. The name "Dark Interlopers" is probably not the actual name of those banished, but a descriptive title. An interloper is somebody who puts themselves into others' affairs, and dark is obviously meaning the opposite of good. The three we see in a cutscene should not be taken literally... that'd be as ridiculous as taking the image of Ilia trying to kill Link with a knife. That entire scene is a representation of people blinded by greed and the power of the Triforce.

None of that, however, has ANYTHING to do with ANYBODY from Majora's Mask. Likewise, there is NO mention of the Sheikah. There is absolutely no mention of people from another world. The only thing that can be considered from that is the term "Interloper"- If they were interfering in affairs other than their own, why were said affairs not their business? But we can be almost sure that these "interlopers" were of Hyrule, as they are said to be "among those living in the light". The fact that they are referred to as "dark" beings who live in the "light" emphasizes that they are a wicked people.

It's said there were skillled in the "dark arts" which Ganondorf seems to be as well.

"According to Lanayru, powerful interlopers, skilled in the dark arts, rose up and tried to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm using the power of the Fused Shadows."

So, "rising up" probably implies that they were equals with everybody like the Goddesses made people in the begging, but their developed skills in dark arts allowed them to cause chaos. The Sheikah, however, were helpful to the Hylians. They were sworn protectors of the Royal Family. They were not a wicked people. They have no use in Termina, so why would they be a tribe that used Majora's Mask?

In any case, the Sheikah are not an evil race. It's unlikely that they'd try to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm, especially since they were aids to the Hylians. They might have been "shadow folk" but "shadow" and "dark" are now always synonymous. "Shadow Folk" pretty much refers to them living in the Hylians' shadows, doing things behind the scenes in mysterious ways. They are not "dark". And they are surely not from Termina.

 

[Nicole]

Just a quick question, but, Zeruda, do you know everything? And i mean that literally, cuz u always have an answer to anything. i'm impressed.

Now i know "interlopers" is plural and i do know what an "interloper" is cuz i looked it up in a dictionary. (do i sound like a nerd to u?)
My whole point was to debate that whole "race that was banished" thing. And i do realize the symbolizm and by no means did i try to take that screwed up scene literally. Just trying to look at it from every angle cuz of the mystery of the Zelda series.

P.S. I really am not trying to be sarcastic about the first part. I mean that sincerely.

 

[Nicole]

Oh and by the way, I wasn't alive when ALttP came out, so needless to say i've never played it.

 

[PureLocke]

I personally think that the Dark Interlopers or the Dark Tribe could have been part of (proto-?)Shiekah culture at some point. Infighting on whether or not to use more dangerous forms of magic may have split the ninja-warrior class(Impa/z) from the wizard class(assumed as most societies have some sort of specializations) in the shadow magic user's club or lead to their banishment after they attempted to take the Triforce. Royal family could have "Betrayed" the Shiekah and started killing them off for fear of another fused shadow, explaining the tear on the Sheikah eye and their traditionally low numbers. Of course all of this is pure speculation as there is very little background on any of the three groups.

 

[Pocket Asian]

Oh and by the way, I wasn't alive when ALttP came out, so needless to say i've never played it.

That's not a good argument. I wasn't born when ALttP came out and I've played it. Nintendo has a GBA port for it and its on Virtual Console for the Wii. Two easy ways to get the game.

As for the question being asked, I do not believe that the interlopers were the Sheikah or the Twili. I agree with Zeruda that the tribe mentioned is most likely Terminian. But this does make me curious, I forgot a lot that happened in TP, I think I'll replay it sometime so I can give a better answer.

 

[Nicole]

Now this probably has zero to do with the tear drop, but this morning i heard from my friends that in gangs, the amount of tear drops on someone's cheek is the amount of people they've killed. But unless the Japanese creaters of Zelda are looking into American gangs, i doubt thats the case. but it would be nice if it were that simple though. i don't really know why i'm going to post this, but soneone might find it interesting.

 

[Mikau94]

All good points, but, who said that the mask salesman got the mask in Termina, He could have found the mask in Hyrule and then went through the portal that Link finds, and traveled to Termina.

 

[PureLocke]

Good point, it is possible that the Dark tribe sealed away the Mask and started over with the Fused Shadow they were banished or are each other's counterpart in the Hyrule/Termina mirroring of people.

 

[the_gamer]

First off I would like to repeat the fact that the interlopers are made up by NoA. In no other translation they are in. It was people from everywhere in hyrule and many different races.

Second one: I'm german and I saw a lot videos of TP in english but I played it in german. What attracted my attention is that espacially Ganondorf is saying whole other things in the german and in the english version but that could make a whole new thread... Maybe I will open it another time.

Now going for a new theory in this one: In the cutscene with "the interlopers" it is said (at least in the german version but I also recogniced that other german translations are the literal translations from the japanese version like Ooccoo is called aunt. I don't know the exact translation of the japanese version of the following, though) that the people from the different races creating/experiencing new magic(the "interlopers") did there magic on the places where the goddesses touched the earth and in another land/country. I was thinking about what could be meant by that... Till I went into the boss room in Hyrule Castle. Ganondorf tells Midna that the magic of her race was that powerful but at the end (i think the end meaning before the were banished into the dark realm) they were missing power and were not powerful enough to destroy the goddesses. It came immediately into my mind. If it doesn't come into yours: when in a Zelda game did someone try to destroy the goddesses? I think that other land is termina. The twili couldn't evolve/research their magical power enough in Hyrule. They couldn't build temples because it was war (Sealwar and OoT and so on...). So they went to termina and build the Stone Tower Temple. It perfectly fits. They went into another land as mentioned in the cutscene and tried to defeat the goddesses as Ganondorf said and they sealed the fate of their tribe and the fate of termina.
Other things to back that up: Those statues licking the triforce and the Stone Tower Temple are the only places in termina to find the triforce and no one from termina knows about the goddesses so the builders have to come from hyrule. I think there were a lot of more things in Stone Tower temple which can't be found anywere else in Termina but in Hyrule, sadly it is long ago that I played MM, perhaps someone else has more?
I think the war between the garos and Ikana was after the Twili were banished.

After that he says that power(meaning the power to destroy the goddesses) is only to the chosen ones by the goddesses, looks up to Zelda and shows the triforce in his hand. I dunno what to do with that but I think it only means that he is so arrogant and thinks he is all powerful and thinks that he can destroy anyone even the goddesses. Midna also says directly after that that he is so arrogant so I think that isn't that much important to that(only to characterize Ganondorf).

Please only answer to that if you know the theory about the stone tower temple of bable(can be read here: http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums...ne-tower-of-babel-why-termina-was-doomed.html )
I know it is fanfiction but it works perfectly for me. Is anybody in here with me?

 

[Nicole]

Hey, the_gamer brings up a point that might be interesting: all of the Americans/people who played the English version know the story. But what if the story changes in a different translation? and if that is the case, whose story is accurate? i've never heard of the twili trying to destroy their goddesses, but if that's the story in German, then their could be other stories translated in different languages. The creators of Zelda are Japanese i believe, so someone who understands Japanese should play their version and see if there is any differences.

 

[the_gamer]

I had a look at the english version again and in english he says the twili defied the goddesses: [Spoilervid] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeX9jXH-n9Q [/Spoilervid]
So the german translation is stronger but the point stays the same.

The different translations weren't the point of my post, though. I tried to bring up my theory about the twili in Termina...

 

[Nicole]

yea sorry, not to ignore your point. i never played MM so i was trying to give some info i knew about