So Who Built "Skylofts" Buildings and Temples? Dont you Dare say "The Occa"
Seems to me like your Argument is still missing some Definitive information.
Is the Master Sword Zonai made?
- Thread starter Ryuu Kage Desu
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Seems to me like your Argument is still missing some Definitive information.
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- Oct 10, 2017
Funny. I literally have a thread to discuss my theory on the time placement of Rauru's reign, which I have pointed out numerous times, all possible placements have little to bearing on the plausibility of the question at hand. Yet, the topic (nearly) everyone seems to want to debate is the plausibility of a pre-SS Hyrule. Fine, let's dig into it.
The main piece of evidence for King Rauru's Hyrule being between Skyward Sword and Minish Cap is literally this:
But! As we have seen already, these time lines are not set in stone. There have been many "official" timelines, each with shifting game placements. A game being moved to a different place on the timeline is far more impactful than anything we see off screen. And, changes tend to happen after games are released, meaning that the publications are subject to what we see in game, not the other way around.
We even have a disclaimer about it:
So, the question falls to what we see in the games.
We have the Hylian Shield, which is already legendary by the time of Skyward Sword.
There's presence of the Hylian crest at the mining facility, Also in Skyward Sword.
There was a King Owl in the past of Skyward Sword.
And, let's not forget about the technology we find, not only in Skyward Sword, but in Minish Cap as well.
Does this mean that I throw out the whole Timeline? No. It just means I add one detail:
The main piece of evidence for King Rauru's Hyrule being between Skyward Sword and Minish Cap is literally this:
But! As we have seen already, these time lines are not set in stone. There have been many "official" timelines, each with shifting game placements. A game being moved to a different place on the timeline is far more impactful than anything we see off screen. And, changes tend to happen after games are released, meaning that the publications are subject to what we see in game, not the other way around.
We even have a disclaimer about it:
So, the question falls to what we see in the games.
We have the Hylian Shield, which is already legendary by the time of Skyward Sword.
There's presence of the Hylian crest at the mining facility, Also in Skyward Sword.
There was a King Owl in the past of Skyward Sword.
And, let's not forget about the technology we find, not only in Skyward Sword, but in Minish Cap as well.
Does this mean that I throw out the whole Timeline? No. It just means I add one detail:
Ashley the Witch
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Here's the thing though, those buildings could easily have been built before Hyrule was ever established. Tribes have built things before any country existed. Ancient civilizations have buildings far beyond our comprehension in real life, those people, we know nothing about. Civilizations long forgotten. Who's to say the countries before who's to say the tribes before wasn't something like those who built Stonehenge. We know exactly when the kingdom was established, we don't know anything about the surface dwellers history before then.
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While we do see structures that predate what we consider modern civilization, in real life, we don't see such specialization, out side of a nationally coherent society. The mining facility, for instance; mines are created to serve other things. connected to it is a shipping facility, set up for rail and water transport. This is post industrial revolution.
I would also caution that not allowing for societies that existed before a contemporary era to be anything other than tribes is very reductionist. In our own history, we have had ancient kingdoms rise and fall, leaving only their archeological remains behind.
We know when the Hyrule we are familiar with was founded. We are not familiar with King Rauru's Hyrule, in that we know it does not match. King Rauru's Hyrule, what we see of it in the memories, and the remain we get to explore in game, match more closely with the nation we see the remains of in Skyward Sword, than what we see in Minish Cap.
I would also caution that not allowing for societies that existed before a contemporary era to be anything other than tribes is very reductionist. In our own history, we have had ancient kingdoms rise and fall, leaving only their archeological remains behind.
We know when the Hyrule we are familiar with was founded. We are not familiar with King Rauru's Hyrule, in that we know it does not match. King Rauru's Hyrule, what we see of it in the memories, and the remain we get to explore in game, match more closely with the nation we see the remains of in Skyward Sword, than what we see in Minish Cap.
Ashley the Witch
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But the thing is, we do know King Rauru's Hyrule, Hyrule has been subject to heavy geographical and archaeological changes throughout every single game in the franchise, Not saying it's a just a coincidence is foolhardy besides, It's not like new structures can be built without amount of time, construction for things takes a lot of time. Besides, it's no surprise they were building off structures they know that work. The Romans did the exact same thing, a lot of the time their inventions was just previously known things and built upon them.
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I'm not just talking about the structures, but that is part of it. There's the autonomous workers. The large subterranean facilities. Use of portals. The closeness with dragons. And, even the architecture. Thing about architecture, aside from emulation, it generally evolves forward, and doesn't repeat. Through the vast majority of games, the style of construction stays the same, and is very consistent. We don't see the standing archway, except for Zoni structures, and in Skyward Sword. We see Zoni like walls in Minish Cap, at the Wind Ruins, which are already ancient and old. Zelda her self stated that it was not the Hyrule she knew.
I've also put this thread together.
zeldadungeon.net
It shows that the geography between games could be extremely stable.
I've also put this thread together.
Hyrule Topography 2.0
It's that time. I have reanalyzed my map placement theory. For reference, here are the links to previous threads on this topic: 1.0 - https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threads/hyrule-topography-based-on-breath-of-the-wild.61104/ 1.5 -...
zeldadungeon.net
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Did Rauru even know about the Master Sword in TotK? Didn't seem like it.
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It was a completely novel idea to both Rauru and Mineru.
Ashley the Witch
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He did, I can tell because I immediately recognize his voice the moment Link woke up in the beginning of the game. And that was before I knew Rauru was in the game.
I think my immediate point would be that Rauru isn't an owl person. The Rauru we meet in TotK is very much a weird looking goat person without owl characteristics. Additionally, the technology we see in Skyward Sword just does not resemble that of the Zonai in TotK. We see what their technology looks like both in current day and in flashbacks and it isn't the Skyward Sword stuff. Considering that flashbacks in TotK show us a time just after Skyward Sword it wouldn't make much sense for all this Zonai tech to be laying around all decrepit and such.
There also isn't anything indicating that the Zonai were capable of just taking their physical forms and altering them into a microscopic species that they only bear a cursory resemblance to. One species suddenly changing into another already feels like an ass pull in Wind Waker, but it seems like a super ass pull with the Minish given how nothing in the series indicates it.
(I also wouldn't point to the books saying, "Bro, the timeline makes no ****ing sense," as a point in the series' favor. When the source material goes out of its way to say that it can and will retcon everything about the lore then you're in for a bad time).
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You are referring to Totk "Presant" Raru, or Totk "Past" Raru The Raru in the past has no idea of the "Master Sword" you need to get your Chronology in order Stray.
We are talking about "Raru from the Past" not knowing about the "Master Sword" until Zeldas Appearance.
This is the time Period we are Debating,
"NOT Present Tears of the Kingdom".
Of Course Raru Knows About the Master Sword As a "Spirit", This is Post to the "Memories" You are yet to Watch in game.
Play the Game Watch the Memories , Only THEN will it all make sense, cause at the moment it feels like the points presented are not being analyzed correctly from lack of Knowledge/Perspective that might come to you once you actually play the Games and come to a conclusion, rather than Explaining things with just common sense or based Lore.
The Hyrulian Shield and Crests in the Architecture, are perfect subtle examples that the "Kingdom of Hyrule" Has to have Been Established Before "Skyward Sword".
Time to Fight Conjecture with Conjecture.
The Temples, Architecture, Weapons and Technology presented in "Skyward Sword",
is evidence that proves,
100%,
without a doubt;
The existence of a "Hyrule Kingdom" in game details (Lore).
The Buildings WERE Built on Earth (Hyrule) BEFORE "Skyward Sword" and the Raising of "Skyloft".
Well Played Ryu Kage Desu, thats definantly "Check" in this "Game of Chess".
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Wait? are we talking about in the past, or in the present? Rauru had no idea what the blade was in the past, but did seem to recognize it in the present.
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Okay. it sounds like you are not reading what I post, and you are just posting to argue.
Rauru and Mineru's whole aesthetic is owls. Owl statues and owl jewelry, as pictured, plus the owl chests. One doesn't need to literally be an owl to be considered an "Owl King." Especially with how BotW and TotK treat the symbolism.
I have already stated that it's the function of the technology that defines it, not the outward appearance; even with the example that two cellphones can look different, but still have the same technology under the hood. Now you say that the outward appearance of the technology doesn't match. And, yet! if you just look at the pictures I posted, all of the example technology does indeed have some commonality. The stone, or stone like material, and the circuit patterns that glow when activated.
I have also pointed out that we absolutely see the Zoni ability to alter something's size, present in the displaced shrines growing, and large items shrinking to fit onto weapons. And, now you say that we don't have any indication of the Zoni being able to change size. Your dissatisfaction of how the series has a history of changing one people into another is pointless information.
As far as I can tell, the the only one here who is angry that things don't aparently make sence, is you. As far as I am concerned, by following the clues of the artifacts, like the creators have said, everything is making sence. It all fits, when you just follow the logic.
See, with this one statement, I can tell that you aren't even following the threads of your own logic. From the point of view that Rauru's reign took place between SS and MC, it doesn't make sence at all. And, speaking of which, you have still not explained to me about there being enough time between SS and MC for two sivilizations to emerge, one after the other. From the point of view that Rauru's reign taking place before SS, the actual war with Demise is why everything was abandoned, then the rebuilding happened after SS, which is why we don't see most of the ruins untill TotK. Placing Rauru's reign after all games, asside from the new ones makes more sence than between SS and MC, especally in defence of one line on a page that tells us that the entier page could be changed at a moment's motice.
I'll offer you one more chance, at this. How does it make sence for the Zoni to found Hyrule after SS, when the Oocca also built it, for the kingdom to fall far enough from that version for Hyrule to go around and rebuild everything, in enough time to build the Hyrule we see in MC, while also sticking to there only being one founding of Hyrule? And, does that have any berring on the origional question?
Ashley the Witch
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The past Rauru definitely knew about the Master Sword, If he didn't he would have never built the Temple of Time the way he did as using the master sword as The bridge to the Sacred Realm. As for what I was referring to, The one in Tears of the Kingdom has an uncanny similar voice to the one in Ocarina of Time, speaking from an audio standpoint. I was more referring to that. The Temple of Time was built as far as the Kingdom was established "According to legend, [The Temple of Time] was the birthplace of Hyrule."
No. Play the game.
Get your Chronology in check.
Raru only knows about the Master Sword in the "Past" Once Zelda Travels Back in time.
#Facts
Rauru's reign takes place between Skyward Sword and Minish Cap, because he explicitly says he's the king of Hyrule, a kingdom that only started existing after the events of Skyward Sword. No, there is nothing indicating it has existed before that. No, the Zonai do not make sense. They don't make sense, because Nintendo has never given a **** about the longterm lore implications of their games.
Why do the Rito exist in the TotK flashbacks, but not in Skyward Sword where they should according to the latest retcon? Because Nintendo wanted some variety in the species presented in game. They started existing there for the same reason every character keeps acting surprised whenever Ganon and the Master Sword show up, or for the same reason Zelda pretends she doesn't recognize Ganon in TotK.
Good lore doesn't need a little addendum at the bottom saying, "By the way our writers don't give a **** and will disregard everything previously written. Please care about our lore." It's pretty easy to give a **** about your writing, but Nintendo has never managed it.