Is the Master Sword Zonai made?

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

I intended for this to be more of a discussion about the Master Sword, I guess that's my fault for bringing them up as a possible connection. Oh well, might as well.

The problem I see with the Zonai being Minish is, due to the fact that even though we don't exactly know how long it is, between Skyward Sword and Minish Cap, but they are next to each other in the Timeline.

But then again, the Rito tribe evolved from Zoras in just 100 years.

With all of their similarities, it would be more of a rebranding, than an evolution. The horns and third eye, which many point out as differences, look more like body modifications. All we are left with is the fur, long ears, snout, and ability to control size. That easily describes both Zoni and the Minish.

Before someone tries to call out the size alteration thing. Yes. We do see that the Zoni had that ability. Look at the displaced shrine quests, and all of the massive things that shrink down to be fused to weapons.

The big evidence that the technology isn't Zonai is that the Zonai aren't there.

The only thing that proves is that we don't see recognizable Zoni in SS. The technology has similar styling, function, and operation. The most blatant is the circuitry patterns, use of portals, and the automated robotic servants who have floating limbs. We see a lot of gaps for the different races between games; it's not evidence for them not existing in games they don't appear. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that the Zoni did exist before SS, and no good evidence against it.

I do admit that this does cause a small problem for placing Rauru's reign any time after SS. Like you said, we don't see them in the time period they should be active in. That's not a problem with placing Rauru's reign before SS. The only Zoni left, at that point, is Mineru, sleeping away in the Pura Pad. We don't see any because they have all reportedly vanished.

But, bringing this back around to the Master Sword, regardless of when you place Rauru's reign, it's easy to see that Zoni technology (or something ridiculously like) it is present in the past of SS, when the Goddess blade was made, and the same tech may have even been involved with forging it into the Master Sword. And, the technology placement is entirely possible.

 

[Saint Ravenboo]

I intended for this to be more of a discussion about the Master Sword, I guess that's my fault for bringing them up as a possible connection. Oh well, might as well.


With all of their similarities, it would be more of a rebranding, than an evolution. The horns and third eye, which many point out as differences, look more like body modifications. All we are left with is the fur, long ears, snout, and ability to control size. That easily describes both Zoni and the Minish.

Before someone tries to call out the size alteration thing. Yes. We do see that the Zoni had that ability. Look at the displaced shrine quests, and all of the massive things that shrink down to be fused to weapons.


The only thing that proves is that we don't see recognizable Zoni in SS. The technology has similar styling, function, and operation. The most blatant is the circuitry patterns, use of portals, and the automated robotic servants who have floating limbs. We see a lot of gaps for the different races between games; it's not evidence for them not existing in games they don't appear. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that the Zoni did exist before SS, and no good evidence against it.

I do admit that this does cause a small problem for placing Rauru's reign any time after SS. Like you said, we don't see them in the time period they should be active in. That's not a problem with placing Rauru's reign before SS. The only Zoni left, at that point, is Mineru, sleeping away in the Pura Pad. We don't see any because they have all reportedly vanished.

But, bringing this back around to the Master Sword, regardless of when you place Rauru's reign, it's easy to see that Zoni technology (or something ridiculously like) it is present in the past of SS, when the Goddess blade was made, and the same tech may have even been involved with forging it into the Master Sword. And, the technology placement is entirely possible.

I'm going to have to agree full-heartedly with this thought process, I've always been one to say even the Shiekah may still exist somewhere in Hyrule unexplored in the games that they don't appear in. So it's not unreasonable to assume the same can go for the other races as well. And you make a great point with the technology being extremely similar, as well as the shrinking ability. Rauru's reign has to be after Skyward Sword, as the Temple of Time was built by him, but this could easily be rebuttled as the Temple of Time isn't actually shown in Skyward Sword if I recall correctly. Meaning it could very well exist, and just not be shown.

The possibilities with the idea of us not being shown it, doesn't mean it's not there pretty much puts everything in the official timeline into question. Focusing on what is in front of us isn't always the best option, but neither is looking at the things that isn't shown. We have to strike a fine balance with this variable.

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

Very well said, Stray the Witch. I have my theories about the Temple of Time, but that's for a different discussion.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

The only thing that proves is that we don't see recognizable Zoni in SS. The technology has similar styling, function, and operation. The most blatant is the circuitry patterns, use of portals, and the automated robotic servants who have floating limbs. We see a lot of gaps for the different races between games; it's not evidence for them not existing in games they don't appear. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that the Zoni did exist before SS, and no good evidence against it.

I do admit that this does cause a small problem for placing Rauru's reign any time after SS. Like you said, we don't see them in the time period they should be active in. That's not a problem with placing Rauru's reign before SS. The only Zoni left, at that point, is Mineru, sleeping away in the Pura Pad. We don't see any because they have all reportedly vanished.

But, bringing this back around to the Master Sword, regardless of when you place Rauru's reign, it's easy to see that Zoni technology (or something ridiculously like) it is present in the past of SS, when the Goddess blade was made, and the same tech may have even been involved with forging it into the Master Sword. And, the technology placement is entirely possible.

The issue is that Rauru's reign isn't before Skyward Sword. He is explicitly stated to be the first king of Hyrule, a kingdom that did not exist chronologically until after the events of Skyward Sword, and the Zonai are never seen even in the background during that game. Unless the Zonai are big fans of just leaving their trash everywhere for people to find then it's safe to assume the technology we find isn't theirs, since they should very much be an active civilization.

I don't like the "refounding" thing, because there's nothing indicating it in the series. Kingdoms aren't wedding vows. You don't reconvene every fifty years to reaffirm your kingdom vows.

 

[GZ Zelda]

Not mot much to go in depth about here, to start. It's entirely based on how the sword reacts to the Zoni fusion ability. When fusing items into the Master Sword, the item is absorbed; not just visually, but Pelison can't find anything to pull apart. Then there's the runes that appear on the blade.

Assuming the Zonai were sent by Hylia (like the Oocca and the Minish), and their magic-tech comes from them, then I don't doubt that the robot-sword is compatible with the Zonai's robot-abilities.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

But then again, the Rito tribe evolved from Zoras in just 100 years.

There was a big geographic change (with The Great Flood) so this isn't unreasonable in that circumstance. I thought there isn't a given timeframe between the flood and Wind Waker, so I'm wondering where you got 100 years for the evolution to take place, I can't remember anything in the books saying that, or in The Wind Waker.

Anyway, it is very far fetched for the Zonai to evolve into the Rito in only 100 years without something happening to necessitate it.

I don't really agree with putting the ancient era of Tears after Skyward Sword or before it, though. I think it works better as a refounding after some kind of collapse of the ancient kingdom of Hyrule.

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

Assuming the Zonai were sent by Hylia (like the Oocca and the Minish), and their magic-tech comes from them, then I don't doubt that the robot-sword is compatible with the Zonai's robot-abilities.

That's another way to get to the same point.

The issue is that Rauru's reign isn't before Skyward Sword.

We don't know the placement, for a fact. I think there is stronger evidence for one placement, and you prefer another. Thing is none of the placements work against the idea that the Master Sword may have been made with Zoni technology.

a kingdom that did not exist chronologically until after the events of Skyward Sword

A large, powerful, nation, led by one central individual, absolutely existed before the present of Skyward Sword. If you want to deny all of the evidence that tells us that nation was also called Hyrule, fine, it has no bearing on the theory at hand. Why? Because, the Zoni absolutely predate Rauru's reign.

To say that Rauru's reign happened between SS and MC, which it seems like you are championing, but to also say that there were no Zoni before that; you would need to explain, and find evidence for, an entire civilization to be born, become stable enough to have a defined culture, then vanish within not just the gap between the two games, but about half of that gap; to allow the Hyrule we see in MC to pickup after the last of the Zoni vanished, become stable, and produce their own separate culture. And, no, the Hyrulian led Hyrule would not be able to just keep operating as per usual. The Castle would need to be built. the right to rule would be shifted from "a god" to a not god. Rauru basically vanished during a major upheaval. Even if all of Ganondorf's monsters vanished at that moment, there is still the remains of that war. And, if real life and BotW/TotK is any indication, it takes a long time to recover from that kind of devastation.

Unless the Zonai are big fans of just leaving their trash everywhere for people to find then it's safe to assume the technology we find isn't theirs, since they should very much be an active civilization.

Someone had to have left the technology and architecture behind for us to make use of in SS. I mean the whole society was crushed by Demise. Do you have a group of people that you find more likely to have been the progenitors of that technology, that also so closely resembles the Zoni technology? And, why does the technology match so closely?

I don't like the "refounding" thing, because there's nothing indicating it in the series. Kingdoms aren't wedding vows. You don't reconvene every fifty years to reaffirm your kingdom vows.

This, I generally agree with.

 

[Saint Ravenboo]

There was a big geographic change (with The Great Flood) so this isn't unreasonable in that circumstance. I thought there isn't a given timeframe between the flood and Wind Waker, so I'm wondering where you got 100 years for the evolution to take place, I can't remember anything in the books saying that, or in The Wind Waker.

Anyway, it is very far fetched for the Zonai to evolve into the Rito in only 100 years without something happening to necessitate it.

I don't really agree with putting the ancient era of Tears after Skyward Sword or before it, though. I think it works better as a refounding after some kind of collapse of the ancient kingdom of Hyrule.

Last time I checked, it was clearly stated that Twilight Princess and Wind Waker takes place at the same time, but in different timelines and we know at least Twilight Princess takes place a century after the events of Ocarina of Time. It's not unreasonable to assume that the same goes for the other. I forget where I got that information from, probably from one of the developer interviews, but I believe it's the only huge time gap we know how long it was between games. But then again, knowing how much the developers changes things nowadays, That statement could be put into question.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

That's another way to get to the same point.


We don't know the placement, for a fact. I think there is stronger evidence for one placement, and you prefer another. Thing is none of the placements work against the idea that the Master Sword may have been made with Zoni technology.



A large, powerful, nation, led by one central individual, absolutely existed before the present of Skyward Sword. If you want to deny all of the evidence that tells us that nation was also called Hyrule, fine, it has no bearing on the theory at hand. Why? Because, the Zoni absolutely predate Rauru's reign.

To say that Rauru's reign happened between SS and MC, which it seems like you are championing, but to also say that there were no Zoni before that; you would need to explain, and find evidence for, an entire civilization to be born, become stable enough to have a defined culture, then vanish within not just the gap between the two games, but about half of that gap; to allow the Hyrule we see in MC to pickup after the last of the Zoni vanished, become stable, and produce their own separate culture. And, no, the Hyrulian led Hyrule would not be able to just keep operating as per usual. The Castle would need to be built. the right to rule would be shifted from "a god" to a not god. Rauru basically vanished during a major upheaval. Even if all of Ganondorf's monsters vanished at that moment, there is still the remains of that war. And, if real life and BotW/TotK is any indication, it takes a long time to recover from that kind of devastation.


Someone had to have left the technology and architecture behind for us to make use of in SS. I mean the whole society was crushed by Demise. Do you have a group of people that you find more likely to have been the progenitors of that technology, that also so closely resembles the Zoni technology? And, why does the technology match so closely?


This, I generally agree with.

We know for a fact that Rauru was the first king of Hyrule because he says it in Tears of the Kingdom. Hyrule's a pretty specific name. It isn't like people are just going to pull that out of their butts hundreds of years later and decide to name the place the same thing on a whim. At this point there are three pieces of evidence suggesting that the Master Sword isn't Zonai made.

1) The Zonai aren't in Skyward Sword even though they would be active at that time.
2) Rauru just straight up says he's the first king of Hyrule, a kingdom not established until after Skyward Sword. To assume he's talking about some other Hyrule in the way distant is to write fanfiction. There's nothing wrong with it, but it's fanfiction.
3) We see the Master Sword made in Skyward Sword and there ain't anything Zonai about it.

I am willing to support the theory that the Zonai are just massive litterbugs that leave their trash all over the place.

 

[Saint Ravenboo]

There's a problem with your last point, we don't ever see the Master Sword, we only see the transformation of the Goddess Sword into the Master Sword. We also don't know the time in which the Goddess Sword was created. The Master Sword and in turn the Goddess Sword was made with the help of the Ancient Sages, Rauru could have easily been alive to help create the Goddess Sword, and still be the first King of Hyrule. His life span as a Sage has survived through millennias at this point.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

There's a problem with your last point, we don't ever see the Master Sword, we only see the transformation of the Goddess Sword into the Master Sword, The Master Sword and in turn the Goddess Sword was made with the help of the Ancient Sages, Rauru could have easily been alive to help create the Goddess Sword, and still be the first King of Hyrule. His life span as a Sage has survived through millennias at this point.

I tend to distinguish between the Goddess Sword and the Master Sword. The former might have been around, but it wasn't actually a powerful artifact yet. The Master Sword itself didn't exist until Skyward Sword.

 

[Saint Ravenboo]

I tend to distinguish between the Goddess Sword and the Master Sword. The former might have been around, but it wasn't actually a powerful artifact yet. The Master Sword itself didn't exist until Skyward Sword.

But that doesn't take away that it was born from the same blade. It's like saying the dull master sword from Wind Waker was transformed into a new master sword, completely different from the old one. It's preposterous to think they aren't made from the same material.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

But that doesn't take away that it was born from the same blade. It's like saying the dull master sword from Wind Waker was transformed into a new master sword, completely different from the old one. It's preposterous to think they aren't made from the same material.

But the game treats the blades as distinct entities. It isn't the Master Sword until it's finished, it's the Goddess Sword.

 

[Saint Ravenboo]

But the game treats the blades as distinct entities. It isn't the Master Sword until it's finished, it's the Goddess Sword.

That's because it was reforged, The Master Sword was still forged from the Goddess Sword. They're made from the same chunk of metal. It doesn't matter if it's a new name, new identity, You can just have the Moddess Sword lying next to the Master Sword side by side, One was made out of the other.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

That's because it was reforged, The Master Sword was still forged from the Goddess Sword. They're made from the same chunk of metal. It doesn't matter if it's a new name, new identity, You can just have the Moddess Sword lying next to the Master Sword side by side, One was made out of the other.

It's made from the same material, but no one was calling it the Master Sword and it lacked those magical characteristics. The material existed, but the Master Sword did not.