Western RPGs Vs. JRPGs

[Castle]

Western RPGs are vastly superior to JRPGs.

WRPGs have improved in the scope of their game worlds, their level of interactivity, methods of role play, combat systems, settings, complexity of narrative, and other aspects while JRPGs have remained unchanged since their heyday. JPRGs still rely on the same silly, tired and pathetic cliched characters, themes, and battle systems that they have had since the early 90s. The genre's flagship franchise, Final Fantasy, has turned into complete tripe, and even JRPG gems such as Xenoblade have trouble getting the recognition they deserve.

Even still, I do not actually consider JRPGs role playing games at all. Their lack of character customization, linear progression and non-interactive stories (even the most interactive pale in comparison to even the earliest western rpgs) are the complete opposite of what a role playing game even is. JRPGs are all essentially descendants of Dragon Quest, while DQ is itself derivative of Ultima, brainchild of Richard "Lord British" Garriot, a super popular western rpg for its time. DQ simplified the common aspects of PnP RPGs that had found their way in limited capacity into CRPGs of the day. So JRPGs are, to me, role playing games in name only since they defer to DraQue and not the PnP RPGs that western CRPGs are derived from.

While western RPGs only grow to become more like PnP RPGs, JRPGs continue to be mired in the same ol' tired and silly genre conventions and even in their heyday, still consist of little more than the basis set forth by DraQue.

 

[Ventus]

But it really isn't lol. Grinding isn't fun. Playing the game and achieving power by doing that is what's fun. Sitting there repetitively battling monsters just to gain experience is boring as Seriously. Why would you sit in the same area moving up and down battling monsters for 6 hours just to be able to play the rest of the game without actually having to use your brain? It seems like it's taking away the only part of the gameplay in JRPGs.

You can't argue that what's fun for you is fun for me. We're different people and as such have different preferences. I personally like to OHKO (One Hit Knock Out) everything I see. Others like to take several turns of hitting and dodging. There's nothing stopping from player Y from beating the game without grinding. But, should player X want to, he can grind all he wants - it just takes a bit more effort to achieve the experience points that Y would receive later in the game.

WRPGs have improved in the scope of their combat systems

I'm curious; why do you think WRPGs had to improve as far as their combat systems were concerned, but JRPGs could sit in their cesspool? Would you think, perhaps, because WRPGs were primitive?

 

[Zenox]

You can't argue that what's fun for you is fun for me. We're different people and as such have different preferences. I personally like to OHKO (One Hit Knock Out) everything I see. Others like to take several turns of hitting and dodging. There's nothing stopping from player Y from beating the game without grinding. But, should player X want to, he can grind all he wants - it just takes a bit more effort to achieve the experience points that Y would receive later in the game.

>turns
>implying I'm a fan of turn-based battling

But even in real-time combat games, the only time I like to OHKO anyone is when I'm sneaking and I backstab them. Or in shooter RPGs (Fallout, etc) if I'm sniping them. I have to feel like I had to put at least some effort into it. I'm not going to argue what's fun for me should be fun for you, I'm just saying it's somewhat ridiculous to find making the game pathetically easy fun.

I'm curious; why do you think WRPGs had to improve as far as their combat systems were concerned, but JRPGs could sit in their cesspool? Would you think, perhaps, because WRPGs were primitive?

You have no idea how much I'd love to reply to this, but I can't without getting banned again.

 

[Ventus]

>turns
>implying I'm a fan of turn-based battling

But even in real-time combat games, the only time I like to OHKO anyone is when I'm sneaking and I backstab them. I have to feel like I had to put at least some effort into it. I'm not going to argue what's fun for me should be fun for you, I'm just saying it's somewhat ridiculous to find making the game pathetically easy fun.

You have no idea how much I'd love to reply to this, but I can't without getting banned again.

Sorry for the implication; I should've said something closer to "rounds" in that you have to attack repeatedly, take to different strategies and what not. Didn't mean to imply "attacking once then letting your enemy hit you" lol.

Well...to each his/her own.

Reply, just don't use offensive language. I'm genuinely interested. People use the whole "oh this game/series/genre evolved whereas this one sits and does nothing!!1on1eo" excuse to justify why X is "better" than Y. They do it with Zelda vs Call of Duty, WoW vs its clones, et cetera. Me, though, I don't see how one series evolving makes it better than the one that does nothing but still makes sales. What is it that WRPGs do in their evolution that supposedly outclass JRPGs which are, to some, unchanging in their entirety?

 

[JuicieJ]

JRPG's have decreased dramatically in quality as of late. Xenoblade Chronicles and Dark Souls were exceptions, but that's the thing. They were exceptions. Not the rule. On the other hand, WRPG's have done nothing but improve and innovate. Games like Fallout 3, Skyrim, and Bastion have each brought their own unique features to the table to provide quality experiences worthy of coming back to time and time again. JRPG's used to be the king. Way back when. But that was then. And this is now.

 

[Zenox]

Reply, just don't use offensive language. I'm genuinely interested. People use the whole "oh this game/series/genre evolved whereas this one sits and does nothing!!1on1eo" excuse to justify why X is "better" than Y. They do it with Zelda vs Call of Duty, WoW vs its clones, et cetera. Me, though, I don't see how one series evolving makes it better than the one that does nothing but still makes sales. What is it that WRPGs do in their evolution that supposedly outclass JRPGs which are, to some, unchanging in their entirety?

I think the very fact that almost every JRPG uses a slight variant of the same system. turn-based select-your-attack battling. The biggest thing to come in that system is when FFIV added the timer to attacks. Which, let's be honest. if that's the biggest thing to happen to JRPGs, that's absolutely pathetic. I'll be honest, strategy RPGs (grid-based battles) are pretty interesting to me, but I've never seen one that was engaging enough to keep me interested.

Western RPGs have all sorts of different combat systems. Fable's B-Y-X Melee-Ranged-Magic system, Skyrim's two-hand system, Fallout's generic shooter-meets RPG system, you could basically have any type of combat in a Western RPG. All JRPGs stick to the same boring- turn-based hit-the-guy format, and there's really just noting to pressing A over and over. (Pokemon is different I promise [if necessary I'll explain] inb4 necessary)

 

[StarBound]

JRPG's have decreased dramatically in quality as of late. Xenoblade Chronicles and Dark Souls were exceptions, but that's the thing. They were exceptions. Not the rule. On the other hand, WRPG's have done nothing but improve and innovate. Games like Fallout 3, Skyrim, and Bastion have each brought their own unique features to the table to provide quality experiences worthy of coming back to time and time again. JRPG's used to be the king. Way back when. But that was then. And this is now.

Maybe on consoles, but on handhelds no.

 

[Ventus]

I think the very fact that almost every JRPG uses a slight variant of the same system. turn-based select-your-attack battling. The biggest thing to come in that system is when FFIV added the timer to attacks. Which, let's be honest. if that's the biggest thing to happen to JRPGs, that's absolutely pathetic. I'll be honest, strategy RPGs (grid-based battles) are pretty interesting to me, but I've never seen one that was engaging enough to keep me interested.

Western RPGs have all sorts of different combat systems. Fable's B-Y-X Melee-Ranged-Magic system, Skyrim's two-hand system, Fallout's generic shooter-meets RPG system, you could basically have any type of combat in a Western RPG. All JRPGs stick to the same boring- turn-based hit-the-guy format, and there's really just noting to pressing A over and over. (Pokemon is different I promise [if necessary I'll explain] inb4 necessary)

Uh...JRPG =/= TurnBased RPG. Y'ever hear of Star Ocean just to name one? SO is not a turn-based JRPG. There are likely more than just that out there.

EDIT: I see you said "almost every", but even so, you're terribly generalizing what a JRPG is.

 

[Viral Maze]

I don't get it. What's wrong with building your character until it's stronger than everyone else? That's one of the most satisfying things about RPGs.

Where's the fun in being able to one hit kill everything in sight?
I get it that you spend hours building this character and you want him to be the best, but I don't see how that is satisfying. There is no challenge anymore, and honestly if the story isn't amazing, there is no reason to play anymore.

 

[Hanyou]

Where's the fun in being able to one hit kill everything in sight?
I get it that you spend hours building this character and you want him to be the best, but I don't see how that is satisfying. There is no challenge anymore, and honestly if the story isn't amazing, there is no reason to play anymore.

Getting there could well have been challenging, and being able to take down enemies instantly might just be my reward for hard work.

In any case, it's fun for me, and it's not exclusive to JRPGs. One of the delights of playing the aforementioned Morrowind is that the entire world feels like it's out to get you for your first few levels. The first time I played the game, I was repeatedly mauled by bugs, crabs, and cave rats. But now that I've invested a bit of time in creating and training a powerful character, I get to take down the most powerful enemies in the game with relative ease.

Part of the reason I refuse to play Oblivion is because that was taken away (the world stupidly leveled with you) and I've yet to find a satisfactory substitute. Now, there was some scaling in Morrowind, but its sequel took it too far.

Grinding to get a more powerful character is a component of both WRPGs and JRPGs, and it's lots of fun in both, at least for me.

Also, challenge and fun are not really correlated in my gaming experience. Challenge can make a game more fun, but it's not a required condition. So there's that. Fortunately, challenge has made a lot of RPGs, especially the ones where I can grind for a more powerful character, fun for me.

 

[JuicieJ]

Maybe on consoles, but on handhelds no.

Can you give me some examples, please?

 

[Viral Maze]

Getting there could well have been challenging, and being able to take down enemies instantly might just be my reward for hard work.

In any case, it's fun for me, and it's not exclusive to JRPGs. One of the delights of playing the aforementioned Morrowind is that the entire world feels like it's out to get you for your first few levels. The first time I played the game, I was repeatedly mauled by bugs, crabs, and cave rats. But now that I've invested a bit of time in creating and training a powerful character, I get to take down the most powerful enemies in the game with relative ease.

Part of the reason I refuse to play Oblivion is because that was taken away (the world stupidly leveled with you) and I've yet to find a satisfactory substitute. Now, there was some scaling in Morrowind, but its sequel took it too far.

Grinding to get a more powerful character is a component of both WRPGs and JRPGs, and it's lots of fun in both, at least for me.

Also, challenge and fun are not really correlated in my gaming experience. Challenge can make a game more fun, but it's not a required condition. So there's that. Fortunately, challenge has made a lot of RPGs, especially the ones where I can grind for a more powerful character, fun for me.

I get where you're coming from.

Though I do like it when the enemies you face get harder and harder as you level up (making it impossible to enter certain places or do specific quests until you are strong enough), I dislike it when the whole world levels up with you, like Oblivion, as you mentioned. Getting killed by a rat because you weren't paying attention or because you just ran away from a particularly nasty monster and had no health isn't exactly fun.

I tend to like games that find a balance between the two. They may make experience harder to come by if you are OP late in the game, or make health packs/potion rarer, or something of that sort.

For me it is the challenge that makes it memorable, as much as it is the story elements that go with it. When I remember games I think of tense situations where death was a mistake and a half second away. But obviously, as this thread shows, everyone enjoys RPGs for different reasons.

 

[Garo]

This thread had to draw me away from my essay.

Let's make sure we're all on the same page here: WRPGs and JRPGs are NOT different styles of the same genre. They are two completely different genres, developed in different places on the globe at roughly the same time, but drawn from similar source material - standard, pen and paper / tabletop role playing games. Because of that, they have come to bear similar monikers despite being different genres. Equally, JRPGs and WRPGs are NOT defined by their country of origin. Dark Souls, a game developed by a Japanese studio, is not a JRPG. It is very much a WRPG. Similarly, Septerra Core, developed by an American studio, is very much a JRPG. Geography does NOT determine whether a game is a JRPG or a WRPG.

Now that that's out of the way, I can say that I very much prefer JRPGs to WRPGs, for a very simple reason. JRPGs are far more concerned with telling you a story than WRPGs, which tend to place you within a story. Both approaches are valid and I enjoy a good WRPG from time to time - but most of the time, I am seeking a finely crafted experience that tells a complete story, rather than being placed into a story and expected to shape it. JRPGs provide that, and since that's what I am looking for, my preference is for JRPG.

I also want to dispel this notion that JRPGs are inherently influence by Japanese culture. A large number of them are, but that's because Japan is the producer of the bulk of JRPGs simply because the genre is far more popular in Japan than in the Western world. JRPGs are defined by their approach to storytelling above all else. I could point to a number of common battle systems, but since they vary somewhat widely, that would be a futile effort. Equally, I could point to similar art and character design, but again, that's variable and not something that defines JRPGs as a genre.

I've said my bit. I'd recommend the Extra Credits series on this very topic (Western RPGs vs. JRPGs, it's three parts), as they have similar views and a lot more interesting things to say than I do.

 

[JuicieJ]

Also, challenge and fun are not really correlated in my gaming experience. Challenge can make a game more fun, but it's not a required condition. So there's that.

Kind of a tangent, here, as I know what I'm about to talk about wasn't your point, but the only way challenge can correlate with fun is through depth. Strangely enough, a lot of people fail to understand this. They seem to think difficulty means something along the lines of a situation that's frustrating to overcome, when in all reality it's... well, frustrating. These kinds of challenges are frustrating due to cheap design (something you'll find in nearly every NES game).

On the other hand, challenges through depth come about because a game is hard but fair. If you mess up, it's your own fault, not because something like a millisecond-long QTE came out of nowhere or an enemy is OP. Zelda can actually relate to these two polar opposites when comparing Zelda II to Spirit Tracks and Skyward Sword. But that's beside the point. My point is, as you said, challenge can make a game more fun, but only if it's not due to broken design.

 

[feraldonkey]

I'm obviously in the minority here but I actually prefer western RPGs. I find JRPGs too melodramatic at times, and the voice acting usually sucks..