They really weren't taken off when you get down to it. Each and every enemy gives you ample time to think, plan and act. The enemies, while aggressive, just aren't aggressive enough. Link should not be able to take on any enemy (well, really this is the player) without prior experience with little to no trouble -- the enemies after say Skyview Temple should at least be quicker in their antics if not varying significantly.
Should the Overall Combat Battle Speed Increase?
- Thread starter Ventus
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They really weren't taken off when you get down to it. Each and every enemy gives you ample time to think, plan and act. The enemies, while aggressive, just aren't aggressive enough. Link should not be able to take on any enemy (well, really this is the player) without prior experience with little to no trouble -- the enemies after say Skyview Temple should at least be quicker in their antics if not varying significantly.
Pretty much this. They were never taken off. I'd like to see a point where an enemy type I faced before can actually catch me off guard in combat. I shouldn't be able to predict each and every move they're going to make.
JuicieJ
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Yes they were. The enemies require you to read and react to their actions and makes you have to think on your feet. It wasn't a simple case of run up and attack anymore. It was all about paying attention and attacking properly and with precision. If that's training wheels, than combat in past titles is a super guide.
I think they focused more on defensive ai intelligence. Like you said, they give you plenty of time to react and each have a technique required to be defeated. I think later in the game they should have created more aggressive enemies that weren't just defending against you, attacking at certain times. The only time I really felt I was being aggressively attacked was the last Ghirahim fight, when the hordes chase you. As much as I liked the battle system in SS, I do agree they should have been more aggressive at some point.
JuicieJ
SHOW ME YA MOVES!
They did.
Yes, this was something they did really well in. Even later on in the game, Bokoblins made it hard to hit them, as if you tried to rush at them, they'd block each and every strike you were going to make- even skyward ones. ;D That was about all they did, at least in my experience with the game.
This coming from someone who's played Skyward Sword through and through possibly more than 50 times since its release. Do you know the effects of something like this? After having defeated the same enemies numerous times, it's become ingrained in your mind and is presently nothing but second nature to you. As such, I'm not sure you'd be able to distinguish when the "training wheels" were discarded; but I'm using that point as a comparison to others who (including myself) have not replayed SS more than ten times. To be frank, many of the didactic aspects from the beginning of the game carried over throughout the duration of the story—this specific case addresses the combat, but it did involve other things.
Howbeit, even with all that said, I tend to agree with you. Skyward Sword is the first to test our intuitiveness and reaction time, namely on standard foes. If we didn't strike an enemy in the weakness that they left open accordingly, then they had ample time to retaliate. The only beef I had with this is that it seemed to never remove those purported training wheels, as we were constantly supposed to teach ourselves to be aware. The instructions at the beginning were meant to get us started, but to me it felt as if that instructiveness never left; that's just the nature of the game, though, since, again, it challenged our mental and physical reactions.
JuicieJ
SHOW ME YA MOVES!
Thareous, I played the game for a first time once, you know. I'm pretty sure I remember what that was like. That meaning I remember it vividly.
I fail to see how, say, OoT's enemies are any harder. All of the enemies were pretty chill. They never kept attacking you. They attacked you, waited a bit, and then attacked again. They usually only had 1 or 2 attacks, and I usually had no trouble avoiding pretty much any enemy. If you were good enough, you could've easily went through the entire game without dying. I died in Skyward Sword multiple times, and was often caught off guard. This was not the case in most other Zelda games.
Anyways, I think it would be fun if the battle speed increased. It would make things alot more frantic, and more difficult. Harder enemies is something I think Zelda needs, and I think SS was definetly a big step in the right direction.
First, I never said OoT's enemies were harder, lol. Re-read what you quote, and read the entirety of that post! :yes:
Second, about dying. I died quite a bit in OoT, wasn't so in Skyward Sword. It's practically impossible, for me, to be "caught off guard" in SS simply due to how the enemies act and react. Not the case in OoT. OoT's horrible camera coupled with the 'dive bomb' personality of most enemies just makes it so that, if you aren't to quick action or perhaps stunning (heck, just hold that R button lol), you will take damage. SS? Just take your time, no problem at all!
This isn't to say that SS enemies are complete passive. Again, they are aggressive at times, but not nearly enough for me.
I personally never had such trouble with OoT, but my playstyle in Zelda is rather aggressive as it is. I never gave them the chance to hit me, therefore, I rarely, if ever, died. Most times, I never die at all. The main thing is that enemies leave themselves quite open in OoT, where as in SS, they do a better job of defending themselves. I never personally had issues with the camera, either in the original or 3DS versions, but to each his own. I do agree that they aren't anywhere close to the level of aggression they need to have.
I can agree with this totally; I rarely have trouble with OoT nowadays, but as a fresh experience I had at least minimal trouble with a few enemies. SS? None at all, as for me being a somewhat aggressive "pattern-seeker" and the fact that SS' enemies are mostly 'puzzle based', I could figure out what I needed to do long before I needed to do it; call it a sort of foresight if you will. Granted, in OoT, all you REALLY have to do is "hack and slash", but even then I feel as if I had more to look out for from them than the enemies that populate the SS universe. This is, in part, because the game speed of SS (overall combat, base enemy speed) is or at least feels to be much slower than any game previous to it.
I know. I was just using OoT as an example. And about the enemies, all you really had to do was sidestep or backflip to avoid most attacks. In SS you had to avoid their attacks, and think about how to attack them at the same time. You had to juggle both in your mind, and be careful. In OoT you just had to dodge their attacks, mash the B button, and dodge again.
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Contrarily, I found Skyward Sword's enemies to be much more aggressive. Majora's Mask sharpened my skills early on, and practically prepared me for Ocarina of Time. Ocarina has few enemies that gave me trouble, as I'd basically uncovered how to beat them all in MM. Also, I'm curious; what did you mean by "dive bomb personality"? The Tektites? They were really the only foes to jump on you, unless you're counting the Keese and Guay, except that they were hardly any trouble. I just want to understand what you meant by that.
Skyward Sword took it up a notch by making standard foes more of a menace. It really did. The Bokoblins of, say, Wind Waker or Twilight Princess weren't nearly as foreboding as Skyward's; by blocking Link's swings they were certainly a step up. OoT might've had some harder foes (Moblins and Iron Knuckles mainly), but I think SS enemies have the difficulty won considering that regular enemies can be just as hard.
Fair enough. Just wanted to be sure. :yes:
(Sorry to jump in on this conversation, but I really just had to)
I'm really with Thareous over here about how Skyward Sword made the enemies much more of a menace. I for one had a lot of trouble with the enemies and how they would block your attacks. If you didn't do it right, the fights could be very problematic, as they were for me.
I'm really with Thareous over here about how Skyward Sword made the enemies much more of a menace. I for one had a lot of trouble with the enemies and how they would block your attacks. If you didn't do it right, the fights could be very problematic, as they were for me.