Zelda: Hylian Enlightenment

[Keats]

Before I begin, a word of warning is necessary. If you have a problem with any of the following, it would be a good idea for you to refrain from posting and/or avoid this thread entirely:

- A Zelda game with actual firearms
- A Zelda game with choices that affect the story, gameplay, etc.
- A Zelda game that doesn't involve Hyrule, the Triforce, etc.
- A Zelda game with limited dungeon crawling
- A Zelda game with a darker, more mature story
- A Zelda game where Link's primary uniform is NOT a green tunic
- A Zelda game that is more challenging than Twilight Princess or The Wind Waker
- A Zelda game with a fully orchestrated soundtrack
- A Zelda game with voice acting

I'll give you a moment to make your decision.

...

Okay, now we can move on.

Since this is first and foremost a game idea, I'd like to start off with something I consider to be "the basics," that being the game's world. Since this particular game takes place several hundreds of years after the established canon (the latest of which being Spirit Tracks, which supposedly takes place a hundred years after Phantom Hourglass, and the landmass in this game is the same landmass that Link and Tetra eventually find), a lot has changed. People have long since forgotten about Hyrule, the Goddesses, the Triforce, and the Ancient Hero, and have instead turned to science and philosophy, two of the most influential ideas of the real world enlightenment.

As with old Hyrule, this world (which we will refer to as Hylia) is a monarchy, and is ruled by a Royal Family. However, while their power is quite absolute in the Castle City, those outside its walls care little for its laws, with many of the towns having their own governing bodies and laws. (They do keep in contact, however, in case a criminal in one town travels to another.)

There are many races of sentient beings in this world, such as humans, Gorons, etc., as well as several new races, such as a species of yeti-like creatures that inhabit the cold, mountainous regions of the world. Humans have by and large dominated the land, but they exist peacefully with the likes of the Gorons and the ever elusive Zora. In fact, the yeti creatures are on good terms with humans, as well. However, there exists strife between the non-human creatures; Gorons hate Zoras, Zoras hate Yetis, and Yetis hate Gorons. This is fairly general, though, and there are exceptions.

In terms of technological advancement, Gorons reign supreme, followed by humans, then Yeti, then the Zoras. By this time, Gorons have once again adapted to an arid volcanic lifestyle, and have progressed to the point where they have become completely industrialized. Goron machines are powered by steam and magnetism, and they have a rudimentary understanding of electricity. Humans possess technology that is roughly that of the real world enlightenment; guns exist, but are quite primitive and rely on flintlock mechanisms to work. In close-quarters combat, swords and spears are still used. Longbows have been phased out completely, and the crossbow is becoming more and more obsolete. Yetis are still fairly primitive, but are more than capable of building castles and houses. Guns are unknown to them, and they rely more on close quarters melee combat. Zoras are the least developed of them all. They still reside in caves, and resort to simple weapons made of non-metallic materials in combat. They have advanced little.

Now, about the landmass itself. Overall, it's roughly the size of Europe. However, the portion you will explore is a small portion that's roughly 1000 square miles; slightly larger than the Great Sea map in The Wind Waker (which was 1000 square kilometers). In order to block off the player, the edges of the explorable game world are either sheer cliffs that you cannot climb or deep chasms you cannot cross. If neither exist, you will be told by the game that going any further is not advised and you will be turned around.

Unlike previous Zelda games, the world here is lush and full of life. Each and every part of the world is unique, from the trees down to the appearance of a roadside sign. Unique NPCs with full schedules wander their respective towns, waiting to be talked to. Seasons change, as well; when they do, the environment and the beings within it act accordingly, e.g. an NPC that wears shorts and a shirt during the summer would wear a thick coat during the winter.

Sidequests are once again an important part of the game's world, and performing them has interesting effects on the world and what you can do. Performing these quests will usually net you some extra spending money, as well as a unique item for you to use. Be warned, though; performing some sidequests will prevent you from being able to perform another, but may open up other sidequests for you to sink your teeth into, e.g. helping a naughty child cause mischief on a farm will prevent you from being able to perform sidequests for the unfortunate farmer, but will also open up future sidequests involving that naughty child. It's a delicate process; in the end, one person may not have the same experience as another, and thus will end up differently.

Items in the game can either be rooted in reality or quite spectacular in retrospect. Your gun, for instance, is very realistic; however, on the opposite end of the spectrum, items like the Grapple Shot (this game's version of the Hookshot or the Clawshot) or the Lens of Truth are quite mystical in function. NPCs in the game will sometimes comment on how bizarre some of your equipment is.

Unlike other Zelda games, this particular title features actual voice acting. However, it's not in English; instead, the characters speak a fake language created specifically for the game. It's relatively simple in sound, consisting mainly of vowels with few consonants, and the syntax is identical to English. When characters speak, a dialogue box opens and the text is written so you can read it, ala Midna.

One of the things I look for in a game is a graphical style that looks great and fits the game. Naturally, this game would take advantage of this. I would describe it, but I found a picture that sums it up rather well. Click here. A somber look and feel = win.


Now, we can talk about Link's character. He is roughly 17 years old and originates from a small town in the northern tip of Hylia called Ordonia. (Gotta love throwbacks to old locations, eh?) He lives in this small settlement with his father and older brother, both of whom are hunters, though the father is also an adventurer. Since he is nearly 18, both of the older men have been teaching him important skills, such as the ability to hunt, use a sword, shoot, etc. One evening, both his father and his brother fail to return from a hunting trip. Concerned, Link ventures into the forest. There, he finds them surrounded by bizarre creatures. He attempts to free them, but before he is able to, he is shot in the back by a masked man in a coat. Severely injured, Link dies while his father and brother cry out in emotional agony.

However, that isn't the end of the story. Upon his death, Link travels to the afterlife, which is a euphoric fantasy covered in a dreamlike haze. After solving a series of challenges, Link is able to enter the centerpiece of this world; a huge, castellated temple. Inside, he finds the ethereal spirit of the old queen name (you guessed it) Zelda. She explains to him that he is a part of a long line of heroic figures, and that the Goddesses have shown favor on him. She also explains a little about the creatures he encountered. After this, she awakens his spirit, calling him a Reborn Hero, and he is resurrected and apparently unharmed.

In the same fashion as Twilight Princess, Link's clothing is altered after this experience. After his resurrection, he is told by Zelda that he is wearing clothes "fit for a hero." It consists of a light green shirt over a darker green shirt that boasts a hood. (This serves as Link's trademark hat.) He is also wearing chainmail and a leather pauldron on one shoulder. The aforementioned shirts and chainmail also extend passed the belt, giving the appearance of a tunic. Beneath this, he wears dark gray pants that are typical of the era, as well as a set of hardy boots. Another difference, though, is his coat, which is a dark gray-brown overcoat that is left unfastened. It covers both arms and extends to just below the knee. He also wears gloves; the glove that covers his shield hand is fingerless and made of cloth while the one on his sword hand is fingered and made of leather. As is typical, he has a scabbard on his back that is attached via belt. Overall, his uniform is very reminiscent of Link while being very different.


Link is able to use many items throughout the course of the game. These items have a variety of uses; some are used in combat, some are used to solve puzzles or open up new paths, and some are used for several purposes. The most important, though, are his sword and shield. The sword you begin with is known as the Heirloom Sword. It is described in game as a simple iron weapon that has been passed down from generation to generation. The shield you begin with is a simple wooden shield. As the game progresses, you are able to use several other swords and shields, such as a certain blade of evil's bane.

Another important item is your ranged weapon. You will find four in the entire game: a Crossbow, a Pistol, a Rifle, and a Turret Rifle. You find the Crossbow soon after Link's resurrection, and in truth, you never have to upgrade it. In order to get the other three, you have to perform certain activities. When you have more than one ranged weapon, you can choose between the ones you have in the Items submenu. Each weapon has various advantages and disadvantages: the Crossbow is weaker than a rifle, but it has superior accuracy at a distance. A pistol is weaker than the rest, but it can be reloaded very quickly and fired without much need for preparation. The rifle has the most power of them all, but is slow to reload and shoot. The Turret Rifle does less damage than the crossbow or rifle, but it can fire more than one shot before having to be reloaded. (The reason for this is that it's a multi barreled weapon.)

Alright, I'm tired of writing, so I'll leave it here. Discuss.

 

[basement24]

I'm a little confused since your opener led me to believe I would be reading about something so drastically different from a Zelda title that I would refuse to accept it, and then what you presented here was just a bit of an evolutionary twist to the series. It sounds interesting, but I fear you might be scaring off people from posting their thoughts based on your criteria at the top of the page.

You've also essentailly stated that you only want positive feedback in the rules, and when you bring something like concept this to the table, you're bound to get nay-sayers, which is something that good discussion is based on. Just food for thought!

That said, I want to comment, but I'm afraid I can't unless I bend the rules listed at the top a bit. I'm not outright negative on the subject, but I really wanted to post my thoughts on it. Forgive me on this.

It is interesting to me, and the good basis of fiction, but I don't see how it's that drastically different. It may not take place in Hyrule by name, but you've described Hyrule in appearance and personality. Calling it Hylia and using Gorons and Zoras might make it confusing. If people remember an existing land's name, and have races that are familiar to Hyrule then they are bound not to have lost the name of Hyrule and all that it involves. Something catastrophic must have happened to eliminate Hyrule, but the evidence of what remains doesn't suggest that.

Also, the Yeti are not really a new race since their use in TP and also a similar race in PH. Maybe they are new in interacting with other races though since prior games have shown them to be outsiders, and specifically in TP, monsters that should be feared.

It's a good basis of a story though, but in terms of a game, I think there needs to be more discussion on actual gameplay. You've stated there's a lack of dungeons, and talked about sidequests, but sidequests don't make up a game. I like grandiose stories in my games at times, but a great story doesn't take over from gameplay, and fetch / side quests do not make the good basis of a game in my eyes.

I'm interested to see more on how science and philosophy works into the game. There's definitely a technological advancement, but I don't see how these specific attributes factor in.

I hope I'm not sounding too negative, but I've dealt with a lot of pitch work in my life, so I might be delving into that mindset a bit too much when it comes to my thoughts on pitched story ideas. There's a good basis going here, but I think some of the guidelines you've set up at the beginning are lost towards the end. That, or there's more you're already fleshed out about these points that aren't mentioned here. I'm intrigued to see where it's going though.

 

[Shadsie]

I think that the Triforce has to be there, somewhere (even if it's not mentioned by name, like how it's not mentioned in TP but everybody knows its there). Even if it's just... a repeated decorative motif in some of the archetecture and hinted at.

I enjoy the idea of flintlock guns, though - just love. They're guns, but they're not too modern, early guns (which were present in latter medieval times) - and other things that lend an "evoloving society" feel, while, at the same time, not killing the classic "legend" feel.

I would agree that, for a game, you might want to think more about the gameplay - the mechanics, the enimies, and so forth.

What you've described here feels more like it would make a great AU/Original Legend of Zelda fanfic.

 

[Keats]

Finally, responses!

I'm a little confused since your opener led me to believe I would be reading about something so drastically different from a Zelda title that I would refuse to accept it, and then what you presented here was just a bit of an evolutionary twist to the series. It sounds interesting, but I fear you might be scaring off people from posting their thoughts based on your criteria at the top of the page.

You've also essentailly stated that you only want positive feedback in the rules, and when you bring something like concept this to the table, you're bound to get nay-sayers, which is something that good discussion is based on. Just food for thought!

That was mainly to weed out the people who contribute nothing to the thread at hand beyond "lol dis is bad idea." I have no problem with criticism. I probably should have mentioned that. Hehe.

It is interesting to me, and the good basis of fiction, but I don't see how it's that drastically different. It may not take place in Hyrule by name, but you've described Hyrule in appearance and personality. Calling it Hylia and using Gorons and Zoras might make it confusing. If people remember an existing land's name, and have races that are familiar to Hyrule then they are bound not to have lost the name of Hyrule and all that it involves. Something catastrophic must have happened to eliminate Hyrule, but the evidence of what remains doesn't suggest that.

Not always. Even in real life, ancient civilizations are forgotten by the populace; the same thing has happened here. The reason I used the traditional names for all of the races was mainly for familiarity. As for using Hylia as the world's name... I'm not exactly good at coming up with those.

Also, the Yeti are not really a new race since their use in TP and also a similar race in PH. Maybe they are new in interacting with other races though since prior games have shown them to be outsiders, and specifically in TP, monsters that should be feared.

That was basically what I was getting at.

It's a good basis of a story though, but in terms of a game, I think there needs to be more discussion on actual gameplay. You've stated there's a lack of dungeons, and talked about sidequests, but sidequests don't make up a game. I like grandiose stories in my games at times, but a great story doesn't take over from gameplay, and fetch / side quests do not make the good basis of a game in my eyes.

I think you misinterpreted what I said. I said that dungeon crawling would be limited, not that there would be a complete lack of dungeons. Think of how Majora's Mask worked; temples were important for progressing the story, but the vast majority of the game was spent completing sidequests that netted you both masks and rendered you a little wiser in regards to that character's life and current situation. It's basically the same thing here. The major difference, though, is that more than just temples are used to advance the story.

I'm interested to see more on how science and philosophy works into the game. There's definitely a technological advancement, but I don't see how these specific attributes factor in.

A lot of the technological advancements would have an impact on gameplay, e.g. the guns. I don't quite understand what you're getting at, though. Please explain. D:

I hope I'm not sounding too negative, but I've dealt with a lot of pitch work in my life, so I might be delving into that mindset a bit too much when it comes to my thoughts on pitched story ideas.

Not a problem. =D

There's a good basis going here, but I think some of the guidelines you've set up at the beginning are lost towards the end. That, or there's more you're already fleshed out about these points that aren't mentioned here. I'm intrigued to see where it's going though.

To be quite honest, I really didn't have anything thought out before I started writing this. It's something of a rambling session. I have been working on the idea a bit, though.

I think that the Triforce has to be there, somewhere (even if it's not mentioned by name, like how it's not mentioned in TP but everybody knows its there). Even if it's just... a repeated decorative motif in some of the archetecture and hinted at.

You mean it's recognized as a traditional design, but any sort of cultural or spiritual meaning has been lost? I don't see why that wouldn't work, actually.

I enjoy the idea of flintlock guns, though - just love. They're guns, but they're not too modern, early guns (which were present in latter medieval times) - and other things that lend an "evoloving society" feel, while, at the same time, not killing the classic "legend" feel.

I'm glad you see things the same way. It's saddening that a majority of the fan base doesn't seem to grasp this simple concept. Then again, most of them probably don't even know was a flintlock mechanism is, so... <_<

I would agree that, for a game, you might want to think more about the gameplay - the mechanics, the enimies, and so forth.

As I said before, I was pretty much rambling while writing this, and I was kind of focused on the story, so that explains the lack of gameplay related information. I'll try to think of more in the coming days; I may even draw something related to it. Maybe.

What you've described here feels more like it would make a great AU/Original Legend of Zelda fanfic.

Too bad I'm not a writer. ):

 

[Shadsie]

Well, maybe I'm a bit open-minded on some of this stuff, too? Maybe a little too much?

I'm currently writing (co-writing, as I'm using a friend's ideas as well as my own) a big long Zelda fanfiction that's essentially Zelda meets the Old West with a little bit of sci-fi thrown in. Link still uses swords - and the Master Sword at that, but he also has a Colt-style six-shooter. In the Hyrule of this story, swords are considered archaic - only a few people ever use them anymore, but I don't have anyone carrying around high-powered assault rifles or AK-47s or anything, because it would completely kill the feel. There's lots of magic floating around, though, and the Triforce is still a big part of it. But, that's my and my friend's story, and we set it up from the beginning to be an AU fanfic rather than as a plan for an actual game.

It probaly wouldn't work as an actual game given the sheer amount of personality I've given the era's Link.


Back to your ideas... Regarding the Triforce... think about how sacred symbols evolve our own world. How many people really know the significance of crosses anymore? A lot of people wear them and use them in art and archetecture just to be pretty. They're seen as general "Christianity" symbols, but they aren't even used as that, always, anymore. Along the side of the road, they're a symbol for "someone died in an accident here" regardless of what religion the vicitm was or wasn't. Even among Christian and quasi-Chrisitan people... how many of us wearing a little gold cross around our necks tell people, "Oh, I'm wearing an ancient execution device?" Think about it.

 

[Zemen]

If you want a game like this, buy Fable or Fable 2. It's basically exactly what you described.

 

[basement24]

I'm not too adept with multi-quoting multi-quotes, so I'll just instead use some short paragraphs here.

Ok, glad to know you don't mind constructive critisism. I know what you mean, the "thies ideea sucx!" posts are not great to come back to when you've put thought into something!

I see what you mean about ancient civilizations being forgotten. It's true it does happen in the real world. I suppose I just felt that it wouldn't be forgotten because with the common races from othe games, it almost might feel too familiar, and therefore not far enough away in time from other installments. It might be interesting to have new races, and then the newly knighted hero gets word of an ancient race who know more about the heroes past. So, he heads off to learn more from them. It could possibly be the Zora's since they are pretty much loners who dwell in caverns and lakes. They're pretty mysterious as well.

Yeah, I think I dwelled too much on sidequests and not enough on dungeon crawling. I glazed over the word "reduced" I think when I began typing! It's all good.

For the technology and philosophy, I meant that there wasn't too many examples given above. Moreso philosophy, since technology is shown in advancement of weaponry and the like. I thought it was interesting, but didn't know how it would play into the game as such. It'd be an interesting feature if done well.

No worries on it being a rambling session, sometimes the best ideas come from those!

 

[TVTMaster]

Alright, another fangame plan! I love to see these kinds of things, mostly because it makes good imagination fodder. I've actually found that when I'm bored, coming up with stuff to put in one of these is a good time killer.

Anyway, I like most of your suggestions, but I've got concerns about a few. I'll go through each of your bullet points and weigh in.

- A Zelda game with actual firearms

Okay, I definitely like both the concept and the sticking to the era. However, my main concern is that, with so many firearms with different qualities, the player might be forced to choose between different styles- either sword or gun. In order for combat to flow smoothly without making it kind of a TPS, you're going to have to work out a way to separate gun and sword combat without making it feel artificial or forced- a trickier dilemma than I thought at first, since I still can't find a single obvious solution in the five or so minutes I've been thinking about it.

So what you need is a way to divide gunplay and swordplay, without ever forcing the player to use one or the other. Perhaps giving the guns limited ammunition that is hard to keep full, or making enemies downed by sword drop hearts/rupees while shot ones don't, or making the different types of ammo separate and thus limiting choices of weaponry in certain areas.

- A Zelda game with choices that affect the story, gameplay, etc.

I definitely like the concept, but if there are going to be dungeons at all, make sure that no matter your choices, they do come in a set order- it allows for more complicated puzzles and progression mechanisms, instead of simply relying on the dungeon item entirely like the Earth/Wind temples in WW.

As for the sidequests, I'd definitely love to see your decisions influencing the way your options develop, but make sure to never make certain sidequest items unattainable- heart pieces or collection items should always be attainable for the completionist. Rupees or equipment attainable through other means should be the rewards for sidequests that can be locked off.

- A Zelda game that doesn't involve Hyrule, the Triforce, etc.

While I'm personally fond of Hyrule and its rich mythology and history, I can see where you're going with this new land. I think you should put some throwbacks to the old Hyrule in things like architecture or general culture, or even keeping the Triforce and the Goddesses kind of a common religious philosophy that has no bearing on the story. When it comes to the story, however, you're probably going to need one or two familiar elements- some artifact or item or magic or character or whatever that plays a role (major or minor) in the main story. It'll serve to give series veterans something to look forward to learning about in the story's progression, thus keeping them moving on the main quest.

- A Zelda game with limited dungeon crawling

Now, this is the first thing I really disagree with. Dungeons pretty much make up the framework of the Zelda series, and progressing to each one to move along is pretty much the central Zelda mechanic.
However, there is a way to remove the kind of limited, structured, predictable feeling from the dungeons- instead of having temples X, Y, and Z, you'll visit entire areas, that, while not actual dungeons or temples in themselves, still serve many key functions of the dungeon.
For example, an inhabited mountain stronghold with different factions warring for control- you could set the "dungeon" up not as a cavern but as a battle, or town, or quest, that still retains the same feeling of progression and explorations of the dungeon. visiting an NPC might net you a letter (key) to go to a certain place, or activating some mechanism would let down the door. Separating these areas into smaller parts with their own boundaries (that are not, necessarily, walls) would essentially transform the dungeon into a quiet catacomb into a dynamic environment with constant story progression.

- A Zelda game with a darker, more mature story

No complaints here- just keep it PG-13 in terms of the more "mature" part. When it comes to gameplay, don't put in blood and gore for the sake of realism- just keep it dark and mature without sacrificing the E/T rating.

- A Zelda game where Link's primary uniform is NOT a green tunic

While I like Link's classic attire, I agree that it's a good idea to change it up a bit. The uniform you describe sounds great- it retains the general look (green hood is yay!) while moving on in terms of design.

- A Zelda game that is more challenging than Twilight Princess or The Wind Waker
- A Zelda game with a fully orchestrated soundtrack
- A Zelda game with voice acting

Yes, yes, and yes! Hopefully it's more challenging not in the sense of having to guess at puzzles, but rather just in the general difficulty and complexity of enemies and obstacles. Fake difficulty like forced guesswork, Guide Dang It moments, and obstacles that essentially rely on chance to pass aren't good. An ochestrated soundtrack could only be awesome (although myself, I've never really minded midis), and as long as the voice acting is done well (the Midna-ese sounds nice), these three are good.

Okay, so that's pretty much it. I've got some more ideas in my own project (LoZ: DH, in the sig), if you'd check it out. I'll continue to provide input as you get more ideas.

 

[Clucluclu]

I know that you didn't want these kinds of replies but here is the fact of the matter is this:
(Insert quote line here) Isn't a Zelda Game at all.

- A Zelda game with actual firearms
- A Zelda game with choices that affect the story, gameplay, etc.
- A Zelda game that doesn't involve Hyrule, the Triforce, etc.
- A Zelda game with limited dungeon crawling
.

These however, I believe could be good for the game:

- A Zelda game with a darker, more mature story
- A Zelda game where Link's primary uniform is NOT a green tunic
- A Zelda game that is more challenging than Twilight Princess or The Wind Waker
- A Zelda game with a fully orchestrated soundtrack
- A Zelda game with voice acting

 

[TVTMaster]

I know that you didn't want these kinds of replies but here is the fact of the matter is this:

Um, I don't see how said criteria make it "not a zelda game".

Firearms are pretty much just a new kind of bow, and we already have crossbows and the bazooka in TP.

Hyrule, while part of the Zelda mythology, doesn't need to be a necessary part of the story. Majora's Mask, Phantom Hourglass, Link's Awakening, and others come to mind.

Choices that affect story and gameplay could only enhance Zelda, not ruin its formula. The only way this could be a bad thing is if it's done wrong (i.e. denying the player certain content based on his choices).

Finally, limited dungeon crawling has already been done in MM, and it worked out pretty well, despite the lack of ability to really progress (due to the three-day thing, not the dungeons).

So yeah, I'm looking forward to hearing more from Keats.

 

[Vash03]

Before I begin, a word of warning is necessary. If you have a problem with any of the following, it would be a good idea for you to refrain from posting and/or avoid this thread entirely:

- A Zelda game with actual firearms
- A Zelda game with choices that affect the story, gameplay, etc.
- A Zelda game that doesn't involve Hyrule, the Triforce, etc.
- A Zelda game with limited dungeon crawling
- A Zelda game with a darker, more mature story
- A Zelda game where Link's primary uniform is NOT a green tunic
- A Zelda game that is more challenging than Twilight Princess or The Wind Waker
- A Zelda game with a fully orchestrated soundtrack
- A Zelda game with voice acting

I'll give you a moment to make your decision.

It sounds cool and all, except you pretty much took everything The Ledgends of Zelda is about and got rid of it... the gun thing is pretty cool.. I mean if they put it on the Wii, it could be like RS2 except not in just a desert.. and with monsters instead of humans.. and a shield... lol

 

[Keats]

Bump because this thread > you. Also, long post will be long.

Well, maybe I'm a bit open-minded on some of this stuff, too? Maybe a little too much?

I'm currently writing (co-writing, as I'm using a friend's ideas as well as my own) a big long Zelda fanfiction that's essentially Zelda meets the Old West with a little bit of sci-fi thrown in. Link still uses swords - and the Master Sword at that, but he also has a Colt-style six-shooter. In the Hyrule of this story, swords are considered archaic - only a few people ever use them anymore, but I don't have anyone carrying around high-powered assault rifles or AK-47s or anything, because it would completely kill the feel. There's lots of magic floating around, though, and the Triforce is still a big part of it. But, that's my and my friend's story, and we set it up from the beginning to be an AU fanfic rather than as a plan for an actual game.

It probaly wouldn't work as an actual game given the sheer amount of personality I've given the era's Link.

Open mindedness is something you can never have an excess of, if you ask me. =3 As for your fanfic, I like the direction you've sent it in. Please post it someday so I can enjoy a good literary experience involving my favorite game series. =D

Back to your ideas... Regarding the Triforce... think about how sacred symbols evolve our own world. How many people really know the significance of crosses anymore? A lot of people wear them and use them in art and archetecture just to be pretty. They're seen as general "Christianity" symbols, but they aren't even used as that, always, anymore. Along the side of the road, they're a symbol for "someone died in an accident here" regardless of what religion the vicitm was or wasn't. Even among Christian and quasi-Chrisitan people... how many of us wearing a little gold cross around our necks tell people, "Oh, I'm wearing an ancient execution device?" Think about it.

That's the whole gist of it, really. Since no one in this new world cares about the Goddesses, Ganon, etc., the Triforce has lost its spiritual meaning, and is seen by most in basically the same light as the cross.

I was also thinking of corrupting the Triforce's meaning in the same way that the Nazis basically destroyed the original meaning of the swastika, thus causing many of Hylia's inhabitants to see it as something bad.

Your thoughts?

I'm not too adept with multi-quoting multi-quotes, so I'll just instead use some short paragraphs here.

Yeah, they're a pain to use.

Ok, glad to know you don't mind constructive critisism. I know what you mean, the "thies ideea sucx!" posts are not great to come back to when you've put thought into something!

I see what you mean about ancient civilizations being forgotten. It's true it does happen in the real world. I suppose I just felt that it wouldn't be forgotten because with the common races from othe games, it almost might feel too familiar, and therefore not far enough away in time from other installments. It might be interesting to have new races, and then the newly knighted hero gets word of an ancient race who know more about the heroes past. So, he heads off to learn more from them. It could possibly be the Zora's since they are pretty much loners who dwell in caverns and lakes. They're pretty mysterious as well.

inorite

But yeah, that's a nice suggestion. =3

Yeah, I think I dwelled too much on sidequests and not enough on dungeon crawling. I glazed over the word "reduced" I think when I began typing! It's all good.

'S coo', bro.

For the technology and philosophy, I meant that there wasn't too many examples given above. Moreso philosophy, since technology is shown in advancement of weaponry and the like. I thought it was interesting, but didn't know how it would play into the game as such. It'd be an interesting feature if done well.

Like I said, I had no real idea where I was going with this idea from the start, so it's entirely possible that I left out the philosophy aspect of it all.

That and I put little to no thought into it. <_<

No worries on it being a rambling session, sometimes the best ideas come from those!

For serious, man. People underestimate the effectiveness of a nice rambling session.

Okay, I definitely like both the concept and the sticking to the era. However, my main concern is that, with so many firearms with different qualities, the player might be forced to choose between different styles- either sword or gun. In order for combat to flow smoothly without making it kind of a TPS, you're going to have to work out a way to separate gun and sword combat without making it feel artificial or forced- a trickier dilemma than I thought at first, since I still can't find a single obvious solution in the five or so minutes I've been thinking about it.

So what you need is a way to divide gunplay and swordplay, without ever forcing the player to use one or the other. Perhaps giving the guns limited ammunition that is hard to keep full, or making enemies downed by sword drop hearts/rupees while shot ones don't, or making the different types of ammo separate and thus limiting choices of weaponry in certain areas.

It all comes down to the player's preference, really. If they feel like using a gun, they are free to. If they're more of a sword and shield kind of person, that option is always there, too.

There will be those moments when you must choose between them, though. There's always going to be an enemy that's resistant to sword strikes yet vulnerable to gunshots/bolts and vice versa.

I like your ideas about posing certain restrictions, though. My thoughts were that ammo for ranged weapons would be something that you absolutely had to buy from a store. =P

I definitely like the concept, but if there are going to be dungeons at all, make sure that no matter your choices, they do come in a set order- it allows for more complicated puzzles and progression mechanisms, instead of simply relying on the dungeon item entirely like the Earth/Wind temples in WW.

Pretty much, except the dungeons don't have to be done in their specified order. Basically, each dungeon relies heavily on items found in previous dungeons as well as its own item, but they aren't specifically a requirement to beat them.

Think of the original LoZ.

As for the sidequests, I'd definitely love to see your decisions influencing the way your options develop, but make sure to never make certain sidequest items unattainable- heart pieces or collection items should always be attainable for the completionist. Rupees or equipment attainable through other means should be the rewards for sidequests that can be locked off.

Being a completionist myself, this is a given.

While I'm personally fond of Hyrule and its rich mythology and history, I can see where you're going with this new land. I think you should put some throwbacks to the old Hyrule in things like architecture or general culture, or even keeping the Triforce and the Goddesses kind of a common religious philosophy that has no bearing on the story. When it comes to the story, however, you're probably going to need one or two familiar elements- some artifact or item or magic or character or whatever that plays a role (major or minor) in the main story. It'll serve to give series veterans something to look forward to learning about in the story's progression, thus keeping them moving on the main quest.

Hm, I think leaving the Triforce as a recognized symbol with no religious bearing would work better for this setting.

Also, I already kind of have something similar to that with an ethereal Zelda, so...

Now, this is the first thing I really disagree with. Dungeons pretty much make up the framework of the Zelda series, and progressing to each one to move along is pretty much the central Zelda mechanic.

However, there is a way to remove the kind of limited, structured, predictable feeling from the dungeons- instead of having temples X, Y, and Z, you'll visit entire areas, that, while not actual dungeons or temples in themselves, still serve many key functions of the dungeon. For example, an inhabited mountain stronghold with different factions warring for control- you could set the "dungeon" up not as a cavern but as a battle, or town, or quest, that still retains the same feeling of progression and explorations of the dungeon. visiting an NPC might net you a letter (key) to go to a certain place, or activating some mechanism would let down the door. Separating these areas into smaller parts with their own boundaries (that are not, necessarily, walls) would essentially transform the dungeon into a quiet catacomb into a dynamic environment with constant story progression.

As I said before, dungeons aren't the only means of progressing the story, so this works out rather well. I've been considering the idea of having actual regions serving as dungeons of sorts for a while now, as well.

No complaints here- just keep it PG-13 in terms of the more "mature" part. When it comes to gameplay, don't put in blood and gore for the sake of realism- just keep it dark and mature without sacrificing the E/T rating.

Well, TP was rather PG in its presentation, so yeah.

While I like Link's classic attire, I agree that it's a good idea to change it up a bit. The uniform you describe sounds great- it retains the general look (green hood is yay!) while moving on in terms of design.

That was the thought. =3


Once again, I'm tired of typing. Thank you all for the comments, though. =3

 

[TVTMaster]

Pretty much, except the dungeons don't have to be done in their specified order. Basically, each dungeon relies heavily on items found in previous dungeons as well as its own item, but they aren't specifically a requirement to beat them.

Think of the original LoZ.

I can see how it might work LoZ-style (like bombs making it like 100% easier to get through almost any temple), by using other dungeon's items as shortcuts while providing alternate, difficult routes. However, if you're going to use battles or regions or whatever as dungeons, and use these types of events to advance the story, then you're going to need some kind of limited progression to keep the story from getting mixed up with what you've already done.
Perhaps you could use dungeon-structured events and areas as pretty much all of the "dungeons" in the main quest, but make actual ancient deathtrap obstacle course temples places where you can get optional items, like the Magic Boomerang and Red Shield in LttP. Or maybe giving said temples bosses with heart pieces or whatever, but only making the dungeon item necessary to progress in the story.

 

[Keats]

I can see how it might work LoZ-style (like bombs making it like 100% easier to get through almost any temple), by using other dungeon's items as shortcuts while providing alternate, difficult routes. However, if you're going to use battles or regions or whatever as dungeons, and use these types of events to advance the story, then you're going to need some kind of limited progression to keep the story from getting mixed up with what you've already done.

Yeah, I see what you mean. I suppose an effective way to enforce this limited progression would be to block of certain areas until you've accomplished a certain task, or to make areas inaccessible without a specific item that is found earlier in the quest.

Perhaps you could use dungeon-structured events and areas as pretty much all of the "dungeons" in the main quest, but make actual ancient deathtrap obstacle course temples places where you can get optional items, like the Magic Boomerang and Red Shield in LttP.

Hm, probably not. I dunno if I explained it in the OP, but basically, my idea was that, while dungeons weren't the only means of story progression, they constituted the meat of it, or were important in that respect. Cutting out dungeons entirely in favor of dungeon-like quests or events doesn't sit well with me. =/

Or maybe giving said temples bosses with heart pieces or whatever, but only making the dungeon item necessary to progress in the story.

It could also be the other way around, where the item isn't required but defeating the boss is. I like this idea. O:

 

[Twili Kid]

I have thought of a solution for the sidequest item.....thingy

When I first read the sidequest part I had problems of making things come full circle, but I have recently thought of a solution (w/ boy and farmer plot).

You first start by speaking to either the boy or the farmer

For the boy you must preform tasks like stealing the farmers valubles and being a nusence to him and in the end he stole the farmers (insert item here) and gave it to you.

For the farmer you basicilly do the opposite of what you had to do for the boy and in the end he rewards you with the item and the reason you could get it is because you never helped the boy steal it.

Wow the game sounds nice, I love when people basicilly make there own game.