Zelda Games Need to Stop Catoring to New Players

[nsanesk8er16]

well i know im not alone on this one since this seems to be a pretty common issue that everyone has with the recent zelda games and recent nintendo games for that matter. what i'm talking about is how nintendo seems to be dumbing down the difficulty with each release. granted skyward sword was a bit of a step in the right direction with puzzles, enemies, and bosses being more challenging however all that is negated with fi's constant annoying handholding and no matter how you look at it she was twice as annoying as navi at least in my opinion. nintendo has now even gone and added the "hint" system via the shiekah stones and with that i ask is this really necessary? the answer being no. now i get that nintendo is trying to "appeal" to new players but i don't know if they realized that new gamers are typically into shooters and other violent video games with hd graphics being the main appeal. also i might add that the majority of the zelda fanbase isnt new players, its gamers like myself who have been playing the series for years and have stuck with it. and with that i raise another question and this one is for the gamers like myself who have been playing the series for years. did we back then require any handholding through games such as a link to the past, zelda 1, oot, mm, or any of the other zelda games that were released throughout the 80s or 90s? i know i didnt and thats what made zelda so fun was discovering for ourselves the different secrets and solving the different puzzles within dungeons and it made the experience that much more rewarding. and keep in mind that this was back in the day when resources to walk us through games was limited. if we were stumped, then we had to go to our local gamestore and buy the strategy guide. now a days you can just look up whatever gameplay footage you need to help you out on the internet for free which makes the handholding even less necessary. i really hope that in the next game that we get more of a challenge and are treated to some of the elements that were in the early games to give us that rewarding experience of exploration and figuring out challenges on our own.

 

[Zorth]

I had the same issue as you, But then I slowly started realizing that Nintendo will never make their games as difficult as AoL was. Not even close. They just aren't interested in having a challenging game, It's more about the Story and availability for everybody. Even if you are the most beast player in the world you can still play through the Zelda game and have fun because of the story, While a more casual player will just shoot themselves if the next installments landed on a difficulty such as AoL or higher. So my recommendations if you want a fantasy game that's challenging is to try other titles for instance Dragon Age, or maybe even a MMO such as WoW if you don't care about the story that much.

 

[nsanesk8er16]

i think you missed the point. im not saying make the games as challenging as AoL (because granted i haven't beaten the game yet), my point being that making games way too easy isn't appealing to new players at all and if nintendo wants to appeal to new players then they need to step up their game a bit in the challenge department, because gamers old and young don't want to have their hands held, they want to play the game.

 

[DarkestLink]

From a fellow fan's point of view, I agree with you. From a marketing point of view, however, your suggestion is asinine. Casuals and newbies make up the bulk of Zelda's profits.

 

[JuicieJ]

If this were being said after the GameCube games, I would agree. However, Spirit Tracks and Skyward Sword have put Zelda's difficulty level exactly where it needs to be. Not too easy, not too hard. Some people would claim that means it's for casual gamers, but that would be inaccurate. That's what's known as casual-friendly. Difficult enough to satisfy hardcore gamers looking for a good challenge, but not so difficult that it turns casual gamers away. Quite honestly, I hope the 1 heart damage ratio Skyward Sword had never goes away from here on out. That was a great step up after the GameCube games and even the N64 games. The puzzle-solving? Surprise, surprise, right where Spirit Tracks and Skyward Sword are.

In other words, Zelda is no longer catering to new players. It's just not alienating them. And that's a good thing.

 

[SNOlink]

I don't think Nintendo should stop appealing itself to new players. These games help expand the fan base. However, I don't think they should do this for every game. Give us hardcore fans more of a challenge at least once in a while and have those who are new at it test their skills and get better at it. At least if you're going to try to get a new fan base in, let there be difficulty levels that we can access the first time playing, not have us first complete the game to open it 'cause that seems to defeat the purpose of having a harder level.

 

[Ventus]

Nintendo should indeed stop appealing to casual players with the Zelda series; I'm quite sick of playing through dumbed down experiences. I remember back in the day when Nintendo simply appealed to "customers" with their games. Is Legend of Zelda, with its plopping you in the middle of nowhere with no direction even remotely "casual friendly"? No! How about enemies that can kill you in around six hits, who hit often? Nope! Mind-boggling puzzles and, if you played Second Quest, puzzles that aren't even hinted at? Definitely not! How about the lack of a distinct trail to follow; a lacking of a recommended sequence to complete the game? Oh, you can best your bottom dollar that is NOT casual friendly! And yet, the legendary game has managed to secure over 6.5 million copies sold, counting only the NES version!

LoZ is a clear example of a game that isn't casual friendly and still manages to sell amazingly. The secret to that is simply widespread appeal, and dumbing your game down is NOT the proper method of achieving widespread appeal. By making the game world seem like a WORLD and not a set of levels (compare ALttP to SS, I think you'll see what I mean), you will encapsulate your audience. Appropriate geography to steal people from real life and send them into their own personalized world to have their own adventures (people likened that feeling to Legend of Zelda and Ocarina of Time). If it's a volcanic area, do not host defined lines everywhere, and certainly don't have a defined pathway; such features are not realistic of a volcano. ETC ETC ETC.

I want Nintendo to wake up and realize that what they had in the past (MM and back) will work in the future if they but apply themselves.

 

[JuicieJ]

Nintendo should indeed stop appealing to casual players with the Zelda series; I'm quite sick of playing through dumbed down experiences. I remember back in the day when Nintendo simply appealed to "customers" with their games. Is Legend of Zelda, with its plopping you in the middle of nowhere with no direction even remotely "casual friendly"? No! How about enemies that can kill you in around six hits, who hit often? Nope! Mind-boggling puzzles and, if you played Second Quest, puzzles that aren't even hinted at? Definitely not! How about the lack of a distinct trail to follow; a lacking of a recommended sequence to complete the game? Oh, you can best your bottom dollar that is NOT casual friendly! And yet, the legendary game has managed to secure over 6.5 million copies sold, counting only the NES version!

There's a difference between a game that gives vague but fair hints and a game that doesn't provide any sense of direction. The original Zelda is the latter. There's no in-game map for when you get lost and finding secrets boils down to pure luck. A Link to the Past did what you're saying properly (with the exception of mind-boggling puzzles). You have to find your way around the overworld, but there's rarely a point in the game where exploring is cryptic. The original Zelda may have had a nice open world, but it's a world that sucks due to horrible conveyance. It's a difficult game for the wrong reasons.

Appropriate geography to steal people from real life and send them into their own personalized world to have their own adventures (people likened that feeling to Legend of Zelda and Ocarina of Time). If it's a volcanic area, do not host defined lines everywhere, and certainly don't have a defined pathway; such features are not realistic of a volcano. ETC ETC ETC.

If people compare the original Zelda's overworld to Ocarina of Time's, I have no idea why. Ocarina of Time's paths are about as dictated and simple as it gets. You have Hyrule Field with virtually nothing in it and a bunch of branch-offs that are nothing but lengthy hallways. Even Death Mountain, a volcanic area.

I want Nintendo to wake up and realize that what they had in the past (MM and back) will work in the future if they but apply themselves.

I agree with that in terms of the overworld, since Spirit Tracks and Skyward Sword brought the enemy and dungeon difficulty back up to snuff. The only difference between you and I is that I realize Skyward Sword was a step in the right direction towards a proper Zelda overworld. It did not come full circle, but the surface portions were reminiscent of A Link to the Past's overworld in many regards.

 

[Random Person]

My thoughts on this vary. It's not that I don't want Nintendo to cater to non-Zelda gamers, I do. But I don't want them ONLY catering to them. I think there's a time for everything and the time for easiness on Zelda, or even "casual difficulty" has past. It was a nice time, but by ST, we had no more need for it. I don't think games should get any easier than WW/ST. Personally, i think think the MM level of difficulty is perfect. However, I was not mad when Nintendo made TP super, ridiculously easy. Imo, if your Zelda game is going to be less difficult than WW/ST, than you should have something else to fill in that void. I think TP demonstrated this well as while it was dirt-easy, it's creativity and ingenuity was through the roof, so I didn't even notice the ease. Both Zelda gamers and non Zelda gamers often found themselves saying "that was really cool" when playing this game. Basically, we still had fun despite the easiness. I think the game that did this poorly was SS. SS, while being more diffcult than TP, was still, imo, not in the challenge realm. The difference is, I didn't have anything to make up for it. I had a lot of new, but not alot of wow. Change in difficulty, like any other non-Zelda feature, can be overlooked if done correctly and if it is catered by other things. Don't just say "We'll make this more easy for casual gamers." Include in that statement "and we'll also do such and such to make it up to Zelda gamers, because they deserve to have fun too."

I think that's my major issue. TP had easiness, but it had ingenuity. SS had easiness and didn't have much to make up for it to distract us Zelda gamers. A Zelda game, to me, doesn't have to be super hard to give me that Zelda feeling. But if you can't think of anything that will settle what difficulty gives Zelda players, then it is indeed time to go back to an increased difficulty because dismissing your fans is just not cool. The game still needs to feel like a Zelda game to those of us who are looking for that.

There is one other thing. One thing I say is wrong with Nintendo is that they're trying to please everyone with Zelda games. Now that in itself isn't bad, (as I just said I WANT Nintendo to cater to both fans and new comers) but it can leave a shaky foundation which Nintendo doesn't have to work very hard to collapse on. I would honestly be more happy if Nintendo came out and said "this game is gonna be different" than incorrectly try to fuse old ideas with new. Atleast then they would have a strong foundation of what they want the game to be, instead of two ideas that tear each other apart.

 

[DarkestLink]

I think the best they could do is keep the challenges for the Mini Games and sidequests. TP and SS are examples of this. A casual just wants to beat the game? Go ahead. The main quest is easy. Feeling hardcore? Well the Cave of Ordeals and Lighting Dragon are that way.

 

[A Link In Time]

I never believed in the subjective constructs of "casual" and "hardcore" gamers. That said, Nintendo is taking a balanced approach towards widening its audience-a method which worked phenomenally for the DS and Wii hardware shifting more units than any prior generation for the company. New Super Mario Bros. Wii can be seen as the turning point in Nintendo's development philosophy-a harder difficult setting was chosen with novices able to consult the Super Guide for assistance. This was translated to the hint system in Zelda. While playing Skyward Sword, I was curious to see what one of these hint moves looked like and these vague clues will leave beginners with only a sketchy outline of how to progress. It's still a thinkers game with the strong of wit and endurance persevering to the final fight.

I'm also very fond of the optional excruciating tasks Nintendo has littered recent installments with namely boss battle modes and harder second quests. Skyward Sword took the idea a step further by including Hero's Mode and Boss rush in the same package, more bang for your buck, and a challenge for veterans to cherish. Dungeon and enemy design has largely improved as well. Nintendo needs to build on this strong foundation in the future with foes evading, parrying, and aggressively retaliating. My sole gripe with dungeon difficulty is the sweet spot is achieved too late. I've poured tens of dozens of hours into the Zelda experience and found the final Tower of Spirits segment and Sky Keep from Spirit Tracks and Skyward Sword, respectively, brilliantly mind numbing. Nintendo shouldn't be afraid to experiment earlier than the tail end of Link's adventure.

 

[JuicieJ]

I've poured tens of dozens of hours into the Zelda experience and found the final Tower of Spirits segment and Sky Keep from Spirit Tracks and Skyward Sword, respectively, brilliantly mind numbing. Nintendo shouldn't be afraid to experiment earlier than the tail end of Link's adventure.

I agree that "mind-numbing" puzzles shouldn't be saved until the tail end, but you gotta keep pacing in mind. If every dungeon prior to the final one is just as hard as the final one, there's not as much of a climax. The final confrontation is just another hard dungeon. It basically becomes a dime a dozen deal.

 

[Spirit]

As an older gamer and one who has aged with the LoZ series all her life (I'm 25) I've often wondered since WW if the games were getting easier or if i was just getting better. I remember being 11 and OoT on the n64, when it came out, giving me grief for months but now i can blitz it in a matter of hours, but that is down to constant repetition since 1998.

The thing i think it is with Zelda is that so many have grown up with it and since WW (which had a very deep and poignant story which seemed to hold the fans and struggles of old dear to its heart) no Zelda game has since shown sign of maturing with us, you can say TP had darker visuals for the mature audience but i'd say that TP is the one that has catered to fans the most because it has the greatest appeal to the CoD :blops crowd of which, as stated in another post, is the majority of the gaming market now.

Zelda has dumbed down the difficulty/or we've gotten better/or i'm better at games than i think i am.... but Since our youth for those who have grown with Zelda, the franchise has made no effort to become deeper, more challenging on gameplay and design difficulty or themes or narrative, instead Zelda has thrown itself into a rut, at least for the last ten years and trotted out the same thing with no intention of deepening or changing, Zelda is enjoyable to the young and that is what it is catering to in my eyes, not the hardcore or casual but the young, almost as if nintendo think roping in fans at a young age will ensure future sales when they become loyal to the franchise... like we did. But the world has changed, there are no turrurists in Zelda, or guns or teams dressed in soul and personality voiding black with no faces piloting instruments of genocide and destruction, no matter what it does now, Zelda is not going to appeal to the brackets of fans Nintendo wants it to.

 

[snakeoiltanker]

this is another one where i have mixed feeling. but eveyone has pretty much said what i am thinking. i understand they are ropeing in more players. I also understand the frustration of the games slowly getting easier, but like Spirit of Rutela said, maybe we are just getting better and just understand the elements of zelda to a point where no matter how they change it, we still know the developers of this game better than they think we do. im only 2 years older than Rutela, so i see where she is comeing from on the whole "getting better at zelda" thing.

the thing is, how are they gonna keep us playing. We want a harder zelda expierience. I've mentioned it a million times, im playing Parallel World (still), which is a remake of ALttP of sorts, but the map is completely different, and the difficulty is..... well for lack of better terms, ********! LOL but that challenge has kept me playing that game for a lil over a month now, and i am still enjoying it to this day! it is as Ventus said about LoZ where there is no real direction and no hand holding! So where i LOVE SS and agree with what Jucie said, "its a step in the right direction" i also love an unforgiveing zelda expierience that makes me act like a 6 year old again throwing my controller!

I have still enjoyed all the Zelda games even with the Easier gameplay, I loved TP style, and would really love to see them go back to that more lifelike look. However, i agree with those who think Nintendo needs to look at us and not so much the "casual" gamer. I mean other than a New Born, WHO IN THIS WORLD HAS NOT PLAYED A ZELDA GAME! its been around forever, and every generation has got there sticky lil fingers on it, so its in my opinion that EVERYONE at least knows how to play Zelda, even if all they have played is the new Darksiders, you have play a Zelda styled game, and would know what your doing. So with that being said, I ask; why not test the market and see how good your audiance is by putting a difficult game out there, and if it dont go over well for Nintendo, then at least we here at Zelda Dungeon will know why!

 

[Zorth]

i think you missed the point. im not saying make the games as challenging as AoL (because granted i haven't beaten the game yet), my point being that making games way too easy isn't appealing to new players at all and if nintendo wants to appeal to new players then they need to step up their game a bit in the challenge department, because gamers old and young don't want to have their hands held, they want to play the game.

Easiest fix for this would be to introduce difficulties, One difficulty that is on par with TP, Another one that is at SS, then the last one should be a complete nightmare like AoL or even worse. Everyone is happy!