hwrdjacob
The Nintendo Knight
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2014
OK, before you get all up in arms, read the whole thing.
HH claims that The Imprisoning War of ALttP is, infact, the ending of OoT, just in a "DownFall Timeline", where Link dies. Ganon takes the Triforce from Link and Zelda, and the Sages throw him into the Sacred Realm.
There are so many things wrong with assuming this, if it indeed happened, resulted in the Imprisoning War. And indeed a few thing pointing towords these two not even being the same Ganon.
Lets use logic to solve this.
Lets take in what the ALttP Manual says:
"One day, quite by accident, a gate to the Golden Land of the Triforce was opened by a gang of thieves skilled in the black arts. (*note, NOJ Version does not mention them to be skilled in "black arts") This land was like no other. In the gathering twilight, the Triforce shone from its resting place high above the world. In a long running battle, the leader of the thieves fought his way past his followers in a lust for the Golden Power. (*note, The Japanese version doesn't say it was a long running battle. It could have been a few minutes for all we know.) After vanquishing his own followers, the leader stood triumphant over the Triforce and grasped it with his blood- stained hands. He heard a whispered voice: "If thou has a strong desire or dream, wish for it..." And in reply, the roaring laughter of the brigand leader echoed across time and space and even reached the far-off land of Hyrule. The name of this king of thieves is Ganondorf Dragmire, but he is known by his alias, Mandrag Ganon, which means Ganon of the Enchanted Thieves. (*note, any Zelda fan worth his master sword KNOWS this, but "Dragmire" is simply not in the Japanese text. Nor is "Mandrag". The proper translation is (roughly) "The man's name was Ganondorf, but his common name was Ganon of the evil thieves.") I do not know what Ganon wished for from the Triforce. However, in time evil power began to flow from the Golden Land and greedy men were drawn there to become members of Ganon's army. (*note, NOJ says nothing about MEN, only people, and NOTHING about Ganon's army) Black clouds permanently darkened the sky, and many disasters beset Hyrule. The lord of Hyrule sent for the Seven Wise Men and the Knights Of Hyrule, and ordered them to seal the entrance to the Golden Land. (*note, this line was actually significant enough to be retconned by the GBA version. It is properly translated as SAGES, not Wise Men.) The Triforce, being an inanimate object, cannot judge between good and evil. Therefore, it could not know that Ganon's wishes were evil; it merely granted them. (*note, this is an outright goof. It says nothing about the Triforce being "inanimate". In fact, the game itself, by saying it is omnicient, and through the ending, implies otherwise. The proper translation is "The Triforce itself cannot judge between good and evil. That is because only the gods can do that.", the Japanese version suggests that the Triforce cannot judge because, like the rest of creation that has not ascended (Anyone but Vaati and possibly Ganon himself after his wish), it is not a god, not due to being inanimate) Suspecting that Ganon's power was based on the Triforce's magic, the people of Hyrule forged a sword resistant to magic which could repulse even powers granted by the Triforce. This mighty weapon became known as the blade of evil's bane, (*note, OH BOY, this is literally just pulled out of NOA's arse. In the NOJ version, A "divine oracle" told the people to make a mighty sword to guard the Triforce, and defeat evil ones would use it's power for evil, supposedly long before the appearance of Ganondorf. They did not create it by themselves in response to Ganon's rise to power. Could this be why the Goddess Sword was forged??? Also note that the blade is supposed to repel the evil one who would steal the Triforce, not "powers granted by the Triforce." So it does not merely repel Triforce magic; it repels ANY evil!) or the Master Sword. It was so powerful that only one who was pure of heart and strong of body could wield it. ( NOA may have misrepresented what is necessary to wield the Master Sword. A strong body does not strictly seem to be necessary. The Japanese version just says that only a true hero can use it. It's not clear what the conditions are, but perhaps we can take a page from the AoL manual: someone who has "a strong character with no evil thoughts. ...an inborn special quality is also necessary;" someone "who has been brought up correctly, has gained many kinds of experiences and reached a certain age." Also, the language here implies that we're not necessarily looking for THE hero. Anybody who is a true hero can use the Master Sword. That's why Zelda can pick it up in TWW, and the Hero of Light in AST - they're not THE hero who has been chosen to defeat Ganon, but nevertheless, they are true heros.) As the Seven Wise Men searched for a valiant person to take up the Master Sword, Ganon's evil army swarmed from the tainted Golden Land into Hyrule and attacked the castle. (*note It never says that Ganon attacked Hyrule Castle in the NOJ version, just started to. And it also merely referred to "Ganon's Malice", not his army. Neither here nor there though.) The wise men and the Knights Of Hyrule combined forces to wage war on this evil horde. The Knights took the full brunt of the fierce attack, and although they fought courageously many a brave soul was lost that day, However, their lives were not lost in vain, for they bought precious time for the Seven Wise Men to magically seal Ganon in the Golden land."
Now if you didn't read all of that, here is the Imprisoning War according to the ALttP Manual, corrected to be as close to the NOJ version as possible, in an order of events.
1: Really bad thieves, but not magic ones, STUMBLE upon the gate to the Sacred Realm. They may have been LOOKING for the Triforce, as many were, but they found the portal by accident. Ganondorf in OoT on the other hand, knew DAMN well the Temple of Time led there. Reason #1 OoT couldn't have started the Imprisoning War.
2: After an indeterminable amount of time, Ganon kills all of the other thieves. If they are supposed to be the Gerudo, they can't be the same because they would be dead in the Adult Link timeline.
3: Ganon takes the Triforce and makes his wish. THIS IS WHY THEY CAN'T BE THE SAME GANON! This IS the first time Ganon entered the Sacred Realm, hence the Triforce was still "Resting", yet he is able to take the WHOLE Triforce and make his wishwhich the OoT Ganon could NOT do.
4: Ganon starts to pull people (Not nessicarily humans) into the Dark World, where they are never seen AGAIN :O. EDIT: Something else I noticed. The wording seems to Imply that Hyrule is intact after Ganon makes his wish, and to wish on the Triforce, you must have all 3 pieces. According to HH, Ganon rules Hyrule by the time he makes his wish. After all, why attack Hyrule Castle when it's yours?
5: The King and the Sages (NO, they aren't "Wise Men", that was a mistranslation) think "Uh, maybe we should close the gate, DURR!"
6: They start to look for the Master Sword (IMPLING THEY DID NOT KNOW WHERE IT WAS) and a hero, but then they're all like "Screw it, just go ahead and close the damn gate!"
7: They Seal Ganon away, and it is possible he never left but intended to leave and attack Hyrule.
THAT is why OoT cannot have led to the Imprisoning War.
HH claims that The Imprisoning War of ALttP is, infact, the ending of OoT, just in a "DownFall Timeline", where Link dies. Ganon takes the Triforce from Link and Zelda, and the Sages throw him into the Sacred Realm.
There are so many things wrong with assuming this, if it indeed happened, resulted in the Imprisoning War. And indeed a few thing pointing towords these two not even being the same Ganon.
Lets use logic to solve this.
Lets take in what the ALttP Manual says:
"One day, quite by accident, a gate to the Golden Land of the Triforce was opened by a gang of thieves skilled in the black arts. (*note, NOJ Version does not mention them to be skilled in "black arts") This land was like no other. In the gathering twilight, the Triforce shone from its resting place high above the world. In a long running battle, the leader of the thieves fought his way past his followers in a lust for the Golden Power. (*note, The Japanese version doesn't say it was a long running battle. It could have been a few minutes for all we know.) After vanquishing his own followers, the leader stood triumphant over the Triforce and grasped it with his blood- stained hands. He heard a whispered voice: "If thou has a strong desire or dream, wish for it..." And in reply, the roaring laughter of the brigand leader echoed across time and space and even reached the far-off land of Hyrule. The name of this king of thieves is Ganondorf Dragmire, but he is known by his alias, Mandrag Ganon, which means Ganon of the Enchanted Thieves. (*note, any Zelda fan worth his master sword KNOWS this, but "Dragmire" is simply not in the Japanese text. Nor is "Mandrag". The proper translation is (roughly) "The man's name was Ganondorf, but his common name was Ganon of the evil thieves.") I do not know what Ganon wished for from the Triforce. However, in time evil power began to flow from the Golden Land and greedy men were drawn there to become members of Ganon's army. (*note, NOJ says nothing about MEN, only people, and NOTHING about Ganon's army) Black clouds permanently darkened the sky, and many disasters beset Hyrule. The lord of Hyrule sent for the Seven Wise Men and the Knights Of Hyrule, and ordered them to seal the entrance to the Golden Land. (*note, this line was actually significant enough to be retconned by the GBA version. It is properly translated as SAGES, not Wise Men.) The Triforce, being an inanimate object, cannot judge between good and evil. Therefore, it could not know that Ganon's wishes were evil; it merely granted them. (*note, this is an outright goof. It says nothing about the Triforce being "inanimate". In fact, the game itself, by saying it is omnicient, and through the ending, implies otherwise. The proper translation is "The Triforce itself cannot judge between good and evil. That is because only the gods can do that.", the Japanese version suggests that the Triforce cannot judge because, like the rest of creation that has not ascended (Anyone but Vaati and possibly Ganon himself after his wish), it is not a god, not due to being inanimate) Suspecting that Ganon's power was based on the Triforce's magic, the people of Hyrule forged a sword resistant to magic which could repulse even powers granted by the Triforce. This mighty weapon became known as the blade of evil's bane, (*note, OH BOY, this is literally just pulled out of NOA's arse. In the NOJ version, A "divine oracle" told the people to make a mighty sword to guard the Triforce, and defeat evil ones would use it's power for evil, supposedly long before the appearance of Ganondorf. They did not create it by themselves in response to Ganon's rise to power. Could this be why the Goddess Sword was forged??? Also note that the blade is supposed to repel the evil one who would steal the Triforce, not "powers granted by the Triforce." So it does not merely repel Triforce magic; it repels ANY evil!) or the Master Sword. It was so powerful that only one who was pure of heart and strong of body could wield it. ( NOA may have misrepresented what is necessary to wield the Master Sword. A strong body does not strictly seem to be necessary. The Japanese version just says that only a true hero can use it. It's not clear what the conditions are, but perhaps we can take a page from the AoL manual: someone who has "a strong character with no evil thoughts. ...an inborn special quality is also necessary;" someone "who has been brought up correctly, has gained many kinds of experiences and reached a certain age." Also, the language here implies that we're not necessarily looking for THE hero. Anybody who is a true hero can use the Master Sword. That's why Zelda can pick it up in TWW, and the Hero of Light in AST - they're not THE hero who has been chosen to defeat Ganon, but nevertheless, they are true heros.) As the Seven Wise Men searched for a valiant person to take up the Master Sword, Ganon's evil army swarmed from the tainted Golden Land into Hyrule and attacked the castle. (*note It never says that Ganon attacked Hyrule Castle in the NOJ version, just started to. And it also merely referred to "Ganon's Malice", not his army. Neither here nor there though.) The wise men and the Knights Of Hyrule combined forces to wage war on this evil horde. The Knights took the full brunt of the fierce attack, and although they fought courageously many a brave soul was lost that day, However, their lives were not lost in vain, for they bought precious time for the Seven Wise Men to magically seal Ganon in the Golden land."
Now if you didn't read all of that, here is the Imprisoning War according to the ALttP Manual, corrected to be as close to the NOJ version as possible, in an order of events.
1: Really bad thieves, but not magic ones, STUMBLE upon the gate to the Sacred Realm. They may have been LOOKING for the Triforce, as many were, but they found the portal by accident. Ganondorf in OoT on the other hand, knew DAMN well the Temple of Time led there. Reason #1 OoT couldn't have started the Imprisoning War.
2: After an indeterminable amount of time, Ganon kills all of the other thieves. If they are supposed to be the Gerudo, they can't be the same because they would be dead in the Adult Link timeline.
3: Ganon takes the Triforce and makes his wish. THIS IS WHY THEY CAN'T BE THE SAME GANON! This IS the first time Ganon entered the Sacred Realm, hence the Triforce was still "Resting", yet he is able to take the WHOLE Triforce and make his wishwhich the OoT Ganon could NOT do.
4: Ganon starts to pull people (Not nessicarily humans) into the Dark World, where they are never seen AGAIN :O. EDIT: Something else I noticed. The wording seems to Imply that Hyrule is intact after Ganon makes his wish, and to wish on the Triforce, you must have all 3 pieces. According to HH, Ganon rules Hyrule by the time he makes his wish. After all, why attack Hyrule Castle when it's yours?
5: The King and the Sages (NO, they aren't "Wise Men", that was a mistranslation) think "Uh, maybe we should close the gate, DURR!"
6: They start to look for the Master Sword (IMPLING THEY DID NOT KNOW WHERE IT WAS) and a hero, but then they're all like "Screw it, just go ahead and close the damn gate!"
7: They Seal Ganon away, and it is possible he never left but intended to leave and attack Hyrule.
THAT is why OoT cannot have led to the Imprisoning War.
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) So Nintendo was rolling in money from WW and their remake of ALttP, which included Four Swords (which existed mostly to show off the GBA's 4 player capability). But let's face it, every company is in it for the cash. Just some companies blindly chase it, and others put time, care, and consideration into their products, like Nintendo. They wanted a sequel of some kind, and they had two ideas: A WW sequel (which would result in TP and PH) and-something not many people that I've met know about-An ALttP & FS prequel. This game would have detailed the events of the Imprisoning War (more evidence that OoT is not the IW: why make a game based on it if there already is one?) This game went through development smoothly, but Miyamoto, in another act of his distain for stories in video games, told them to, quote, "simplify the story and focus on the unique play style" at around 75% through development. But, what he did NOT say was "Don't make it an ALttP prequel". As such, while the final product does not detail the Imprisoning War, it was made with the mind set of "This will lead to ALttP", contains many references, both visual and audiotory, to ALttP, and since the aspect of being an ALttP prequel was not removed but rather "simplified" it was-and to this day, still is- An ALttP prequel by technicality.
