What're your views on traditional martial arts?

[GrooseIsLoose]

As a former traditional martial artist (Brown 1 Isshinryu Karate and Kobudo) I feel that they are over priced and over rated. It doesn't even compare to modern martial arts. You can argue that there's successful traditional martial artists in one fc. But these guys are the best of the best. They developed their own fighting techniques apart from what they were taught at dojo.

Second is the price. Each belt grading is a robbery modern martial arts are waaay cheaper to learn and way more functional.

 

[Ragnarokio]

I'm under the impression that most traditional martial arts are either practiced artistically or athletically and aren't typically practiced with real self-defense in mind. As far as those two goals go, I think they're as fine as any other combat sport, although they share the concerns that any contact sport will have of injuries which becomes more serious when children are participating. I can imagine that particularly the older and more respected institutions would leverage their reputation as a means of generating revenue.

I would be surprised if modern martial arts weren't significantly better suited to real combat situations.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

I think it's great exercise and that it can be good for physical discipline. In the real world martial arts will never be practical and will probably end with some MMA fighter kicking your ass.

 

[TheGreatCthulhu]

If a martial art isn't concerned with fighting, I hesitate to call it "martial," considering the word comes from Mars, the god of war. So if it isn't concerned with fighting, can we even call it a martial art?

That said, it's great for physical discipline, but I also believe the martial art should be effective, otherwise it's just a fancy workout.

Boxing, Muay Thai, judo, jiujitsu, kickboxing, wrestling, MMA, and such I would call effective martial arts. They teach physical conditioning, teach you how to fight, teach discipline, and so on.

So-called "traditional" martial arts I compare them to yoga. They have a place, but fighting I don't think is one of them.

 

[Ragnarokio]

If a martial art isn't concerned with fighting, I hesitate to call it "martial," considering the word comes from Mars, the god of war. So if it isn't concerned with fighting, can we even call it a martial art?

That said, it's great for physical discipline, but I also believe the martial art should be effective, otherwise it's just a fancy workout.

Boxing, Muay Thai, judo, jiujitsu, kickboxing, wrestling, MMA, and such I would call effective martial arts. They teach physical conditioning, teach you how to fight, teach discipline, and so on.

So-called "traditional" martial arts I compare them to yoga. They have a place, but fighting I don't think is one of them.

I don't think there are things that are called martial arts that don't involve fighting, although a lot of martial arts also seem to have philosophical components. The way i see it, martial arts can be broadly split into two categories, those designed/practiced for real combat, and those designed/practiced for ultimately peaceful exhibitions. In your list, at least boxing, judo, and wrestling have, to my knowledge, never been practiced widely in real combat situations. Boxers train primarily to win at boxing rather than to win at fights. The same is true of judoka and wrestlers. In a freeform fight with no rules and potential asymetries in things like body size. number of opponents, and degrees of armedness someone who has trained their whole life to fight similar sized opponents under a shared set of rules should in theory be at a severe disadvantage to someone who has trained to win real fights.

In a freeform fight which "athletic" marital art will come out on top will depend on the circumtsnaces of the fight. Judo is designed with the enemy's clothing in mind, and so would presumably become pretty ineffective if the opponent wasn't wearing loose clothing, for intsance. The martial arts I would expect to succeed the most would be those created and practiced with the intent of real-world use by people like soldiers, police, and security guards, rather than those intended to be used primarily or exclusively in sporting events.

I will say that I would expect more modern martial arts to outperform older martial arts in a freeform fight, if only because of advancements in the field of study, and that the degree to which a sports-oriented martial art is suited to actual combat-scenarios will vary from art to art as well as between situations, and so the ones you listed might tend to be better ones in spite of their sports-focus

 

[TheGreatCthulhu]

I don't think there are things that are called martial arts that don't involve fighting, although a lot of martial arts also seem to have philosophical components. The way i see it, martial arts can be broadly split into two categories, those designed/practiced for real combat, and those designed/practiced for ultimately peaceful exhibitions. In your list, at least boxing, judo, and wrestling have, to my knowledge, never been practiced widely in real combat situations. Boxers train primarily to win at boxing rather than to win at fights. The same is true of judoka and wrestlers. In a freeform fight with no rules and potential asymetries in things like body size. number of opponents, and degrees of armedness someone who has trained their whole life to fight similar sized opponents under a shared set of rules should in theory be at a severe disadvantage to someone who has trained to win real fights.

In a freeform fight which "athletic" marital art will come out on top will depend on the circumtsnaces of the fight. Judo is designed with the enemy's clothing in mind, and so would presumably become pretty ineffective if the opponent wasn't wearing loose clothing, for intsance. The martial arts I would expect to succeed the most would be those created and practiced with the intent of real-world use by people like soldiers, police, and security guards, rather than those intended to be used primarily or exclusively in sporting events.

I will say that I would expect more modern martial arts to outperform older martial arts in a freeform fight, if only because of advancements in the field of study, and that the degree to which a sports-oriented martial art is suited to actual combat-scenarios will vary from art to art as well as between situations, and so the ones you listed might tend to be better ones in spite of their sports-focus

That's basically what I'm saying.

Martial arts ought to be concerned with fighting, and some are simply more effective than others.

The non-fighting arts, let's say, I would liken them to yoga or something. Definitely good for physical health, but if you think they're there to make you a better fighter, I think one might be mistaken.

That's all I'm saying really.

 

[Ragnarokio]

I wasn't familiar with the "non-fighting" martial arts you were talking about, but I understand where you're coming from now. I knew that some karate exhibitions involved showcasing kata rather than actually fighting, but I didn't know that some martial arts had evolved to become just that and weren't used in actual combat at all. It makes sense, in retrospect, and I can definitely see the argument for not calling them martial arts.

 

[Mikey the Moblin]

I'd counter that something being "martial" doesn't inherently mean it must be concerned with fighting, since war isn't completely about fighting battles, and being a warrior isn't completely about fighting good

 

[Ragnarokio]

As far as i can tell they're referred to as martial arts because they were used to train people to fight wars in the past. Some of that presumably remains in their current form but they've probably largely evolved to be more about form than function (at least the ones that don't involve actual fights)

 

[twilitfalchion]

Martial arts are an excellent study for a number of reasons, whether for physical health, philosophical belief, etc. I studied traditional Shotokan karate for a number of years. Earned my black belt and all that jazz. Was a damn good time for both my body and mind.

And knowing how to hold my own in a fight is a plus too.

 

[ExLight]

what is a kobudo
is it the weapons one

Overrated how? Overall if you want anything to help with discipline and betterment of health I guess p much any martial arts (as long it's not one of those bull**** ones with no contact) is a good way to go. For more specific purposes you prolly have to do proper research first to decide on what to add to the mix. If you want something more combat focused you should prolly add certain styles of Karate or Taekwondo. For self-defense probably stuff involving throwing and grappling like Jiujitsu and Judo. For more choreographic stuff prolly different styles of Kung-fu.

I feel like with the popularization of them through entertainment means like hollywoodian movies did cause a huge surge on scammy ones, as well as a weird attempt to sell more aesthetic ones as effective in self defense (ie aikido or most of types of kung fu) which is certainly messy and disappointing to people. Another issue is that when practicing you have people letting you perform the moves without resistance so you can learn, but in a real life scenario your opponent isn't just gonna be around waiting for you to do it - I guess the idea is to develop muscle memory, but if you never get to put it in real life situations it loses the purpose as a fighting technique, so always gotta be a bit skeptical of if you're actually learning the form properly or just a lite version of it.

dunno about overpriced since the places I've been to practice judo/ taewkwondo were p much free only asking for donations or occasional payment every now and then, so if they charging you a lot that's prolly the first red flag unless it's a super famous dojo

 

[TheGreatCthulhu]

what is a kobudo
is it the weapons one

Overrated how? Overall if you want anything to help with discipline and betterment of health I guess p much any martial arts (as long it's not one of those bull**** ones with no contact) is a good way to go. For more specific purposes you prolly have to do proper research first to decide on what to add to the mix. If you want something more combat focused you should prolly add certain styles of Karate or Taekwondo. For self-defense probably stuff involving throwing and grappling like Jiujitsu and Judo. For more choreographic stuff prolly different styles of Kung-fu.

I feel like with the popularization of them through entertainment means like hollywoodian movies did cause a huge surge on scammy ones, as well as a weird attempt to sell more aesthetic ones as effective in self defense (ie aikido or most of types of kung fu) which is certainly messy and disappointing to people. Another issue is that when practicing you have people letting you perform the moves without resistance so you can learn, but in a real life scenario your opponent isn't just gonna be around waiting for you to do it - I guess the idea is to develop muscle memory, but if you never get to put it in real life situations it loses the purpose as a fighting technique, so always gotta be a bit skeptical of if you're actually learning the form properly or just a lite version of it.

dunno about overpriced since the places I've been to practice judo/ taewkwondo were p much free only asking for donations or occasional payment every now and then, so if they charging you a lot that's prolly the first red flag unless it's a super famous dojo

Seriously. Bullshido is a real thing.

 

[ExLight]

Seriously. Bullshido is a real thing.

it's the humorous name for those scammy martial arts yea lol
comes from bull**** and bushido iirc

 

[GrooseIsLoose]

If you want something more combat focused you should prolly add certain styles of Karate or Taekwondo

Taekwondo is ok. But ain't no way Karate is an effective combat sport

 

[Ragnarokio]

karate is very broad, to the extent that some people practice it as a combat sport, some people practice it as an artform, and others practice it with the intent of being used for real self defense. Even within those subcategories there is probably going to be a lot of variety in how it is taught and practiced.

Google seems to suggest that in mixed martial arts exhibitions people with karate backgrounds have at least occasionally succeeded at very high levels, so it should be an effective combat sport in at least some contexts.