What is your unpopular Zelda opinion?

[NastyLesley]

I wish the Wii U had his own Zelda game is the only console that dont have his own exclusive Zelda yes we had Wind Waker Twilight Princess Remasters and Hyrule Warriors but i would have preferred to have a Twilight Princess 2 instead of a Twilight Princess Remaster i think that if the Wii U had its own Zelda game the Wii U Console would have sold more

That was the plan with Breath of the Wild but they delayed it so much that I think in the end they decided to make it a dual release to give the Switch a strong launch title.

 

[RamboBambiBambo]

Lol, well then get to it today! Link changes things in the past so there are nearly infinite branching timelines, just as with OoT and, if we want to get really ridiculous about it, the stasis rune and the clock.

Opai, here we go.

The Gate of Time and Harp of Ages have very different rules for time travel.

The Gate of Time, when in use by a mortal and not Hylia, will create splits in the timeline.
We have seen this in Skyward Sword with the Lifefruit tree being planted and in Ocarina of Time with the timeline shenanigans going on in that game.
This is timeline splitting, meaning that when you go back in time and to the future, you are actually going to an alternate future you created with meddling in the past; while the present timeline is still intact.
You went back in time in Timeline A on Saturday for example, but that timeline will continue onwards to Sunday and Monday and so-on.
But by going back in time in Timeline A, you created Timeline B; which now runs parallel to Timeline A as an alternate course of events that deviated from the point in which you were inserted into the past.
You want to go back in time to prevent the death of a brother so you go back in time to prevent it.
Now you have two timelines in which your brother died Friday and the other in which you intervened and prevented his demise. Timeline A has nothing change except you disappear from reality on Saturday and Timeline B has minor changes from your arrival and then the major deviation change when you prevent the death of your brother.

Each jump into the past creates a new timeline, while not deleting the existence of the one you abandoned to never return to again.




The Harp of Ages however is different as it is Retroactive Correction.

When Veran possessed Nayru and used the Harp of Ages to travel back in time to alter history, you witnessed those historical changes happen in real time.
Link and Impa have their memory of the future that was and witnessed the changes brought on by Veran's alterations of the past.
Had the Harp of Ages followed the same rules of the Gate of Time, Link would've seen Veran disappear to the past and then nothing would have changed; because Timeline A continues on without Veran and Nayru as they disappear from existence and Veran would have created Timeline B in which she is victorious in her efforts without any meddling from Link.

But we do know that this is simply not the case.
Veran jumps back in time and you bear witness to the changes in the timeline that she had caused.
Link and Impa know how things were before the changes to the past were made.

When you time-travel in Oracle of Ages, you are doing so to make direct changes to each and every event that Veran had meddled with, slowly mending the still singular timeline to be back to the way it was.

Imagine, for example, if Majora's Mask would reset automatically every three days.
BUT your actions in the side-quests from those three-day-cycles would not be reset, but instead retained as you continued into a new time-loop. So eventually after each time-jump you would undo the discord and chaos sown by Majora.
This is basically how the Harp of Ages works, allowing you to correct a singular timeline rather than create splitting time-branches all over the place.

Each time you go back into the past, the timeline itself is retroactively readjusted to fit a new set of events caused by your actions in the past.

 

[TheGreatCthulhu]

I feel this one is contentious.

But speaking as a musician, after analyzing Breath of the Wild's soundtrack some more, it's actually not as bad as everyone says it is.

In fact, many of themes are smartly designed, just it wasn't what people expected, and it wasn't what they were used to, and that's going to draw critics.

In addition, I do say that saying a lot of the themes are just plinking around randomly on a piano is being unfair, because a lot of the themes do have a clearly established key, so the notes aren't randomly chosen, and they contain things that are indicative of Zelda music, harmonically speaking, it just wasn't what people were used to, or it wasn't in the form that people typically hear it.

So as a result, it sounded to people as if it was too much of a departure, even though, compositionally and harmonically speaking, it's right at home and very much familiar.

 

[Mikey the Gengar]

Botw music is why it's a good idea to make a distinction between something being bad and something being disliked

 

[Fraxinus]

I think the problem is too many of the songs are just inseparable from the context of BotW's atmosphere. I feel that way with a couple games I've played, mostly JRPGs, where it's like... the music is absolutely effective in what it is meant to achieve, but after the game is no longer in front of me, I just can't particularly differentiate the songs from each other or remember where they play, nor do I really like notice the music distinctly while I'm playing to want to seek out the tracks for listening outside of the games. They are 100% just a part of the atmosphere of the game to me because of how they're handled. That doesn't really make them unmemorable, but the experience with them is just completely ingrained into the experience of the game so it's not the music I remember, but the game. I don't know how much sense this makes, but I tried.

Hyrule Casserole is a banger tho

 

[NastyLesley]

I was being hyperbolic when I likened the Breath soundtrack to an intern poking a piano but I feel it does adequately convey my problem with the approach to the game's soundtrack. I much prefer the traditional approach to Zelda soundtracks, I find them much more memorable and engaging to listen to.

 

[TheGreatCthulhu]

I was being hyperbolic when I likened the Breath soundtrack to an intern poking a piano but I feel it does adequately convey my problem with the approach to the game's soundtrack. I much prefer the traditional approach to Zelda soundtracks, I find them much more memorable and engaging to listen to.

That's how most people feel about ambient music in general. But all of the trappings of what makes Zelda music unique are in BotW's soundtrack.

In my opinion, when listening to Zelda music, I feel Zelda music's identity is codified by:

• Tonal Ambiguity. Meaning, the music floats between major and minor tonalities.
• Modal Mixture. If the piece is in a major key, it will borrow chords from the parallel minor key, typically, the bVI and bVII chords, creating what I've been calling the Kondo Cadence, which is bVI-bVII-I.
• Chromatic Approaches. Some of the more epic pieces include chromatic approach notes and chords, and sometimes, double chromatic enclosures to reinforce the Tonic much more strongly. It's a hallmark of modal mixture as well.
• Melodic. Zelda music is melodic, even if it goes atonal or ambient.
• Familiar Time Signatures. The time signatures in many Zelda pieces are familiar ones like 4/4, 3/4, and 6/8. The only time the time signature gets complex is during boss fights to my experience.
• Picardy Thirds. Typically, if a Zelda piece is in a minor key, it will resolve to the Tonic major chord, rather than the Tonic minor chord.
• Tells a Complete Story, Musically. Typically, the music takes you on a full musical journey, no matter how simple or short it is.
• Compels You To Move Forward. Ultimately, the music's goal is to invoke a sense of adventure, and even in the field themes, the music puts in your ear a compulsion to keep moving towards a destination, typically by resolving to the fifth note of the key, melodically, to invoke that sense. In other words, it's not static.

All of the trappings of what makes Zelda music unique is in BotW's soundtrack.

Let's take the Hyrule Field Theme from BotW as an example.

It's in the key of Eb major, and a lot of the melodies are resolving to the fifth of the key, establishing that sense of compelling you to move towards a destination. It also uses modal mixture, as the bVII chord is featured very prominently in literally every single Hyrule Field theme in the game since the first one on NES.

This, sonically, reinforces an adventurous or heroic vibe that's typical of Zelda music, in general.

But what the mode mixture does in BotW's case is a bit different due to the ambient nature of the track. It adds darkness and somberness to the music, and this is how in this case, the Field Theme tells a story. Sonically, you're hearing the typical thing you'd expect in a Hyrule Field theme, but gone are the days of might and majesty of the Hyrule Kingdom. It's decayed, ruins dot the landscape, the Great Calamity makes everyone live in fear. This is a broken and decayed kingdom.

The music reflects that overall vibe, but the original might and majesty of that kingdom still shines through because the music itself, harmonically, doesn't stray too far from what you'd expect.

This is why those notes may sound random to you, but when I'm listening to it, I hear a deliberateness and meticulousness behind each note and chord chosen.

Thematically, a bombastic Hyrule Field theme wouldn't make sense, and since the majority of your time is going to be spent there, then it doesn't really make sense to have a loop of music playing over and over. It would get real old, real fast, so going for a more ambient style soundtrack is a much smarter move.

Say what you will about ambient music in general, but one thing they do really well is convey a mood and a vibe without being repetitive.

 

[Mikey the Gengar]

It would get real old, real fast

This is the bit I'm not so sure about tbh

 

[TheGreatCthulhu]

This is the bit I'm not so sure about tbh

If you're spending the vast majority of your time in one area, and you really have a 45 second to a minute loop of music, it's eventually going to get repetitive.

I feel though that some people give leeway to some songs in the Zelda franchise, and are being unnecessarily harsh regarding BotW's soundtrack.

For example, the Nocturne of Shadow from OoT doesn't even have a clearly established tonal center, meaning it's an atonal piece of music. A LOT of notes clash pretty hard, and doesn't truly resolve itself until the end of the piece.

 

[Mikey the Gengar]

See who says it needs to be a 45 second loop? How long is Hyrule castle, 7 minutes? And oot's Hyrule field randomizes the order it plays its parts
It would have taken a lot more time but I'm sure they could have done something more "traditional" sounding

 

[TheGreatCthulhu]

See who says it needs to be a 45 second loop? How long is Hyrule castle, 7 minutes? And oot's Hyrule field randomizes the order it plays its parts
It would have taken a lot more time but I'm sure they could have done something more "traditional" sounding

But they did, as I've lined out, it's just not in the usual way you're used to hearing it, but in a way that makes thematic sense for the game. Going traditional would evoke the wrong mood.

It would convey the sense that this is still a kingdom that's mighty and strong, and in the game, it's not that at all.

 

[Mikey the Gengar]

-_-

 

[TheGreatCthulhu]

-_-

 

[Farore's Chosen]

You have a point about the dungeons, something about 2D dungeons is just super unique, but bosses? Naw. I've had a whole lot more fun with 3D bosses, whereas 2D bosses are just walk around spamming your sword and hope you get a lucky hit

There are plenty of bosses in 2D Zeldas that need specific items to kill them, which goes all the way back to the very first game. Some bosses are killed by arrows, bombs, seed shooters, elemental wands, magic spells, big balls (not the kind your thinking) and stuff I've probably either forgotten or don't know about.

Most Zelda bosses in general aren't particularly engaging regardless of what era they came out in.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

I feel this one is contentious.

But speaking as a musician, after analyzing Breath of the Wild's soundtrack some more, it's actually not as bad as everyone says it is.

In fact, many of themes are smartly designed, just it wasn't what people expected, and it wasn't what they were used to, and that's going to draw critics.

In addition, I do say that saying a lot of the themes are just plinking around randomly on a piano is being unfair, because a lot of the themes do have a clearly established key, so the notes aren't randomly chosen, and they contain things that are indicative of Zelda music, harmonically speaking, it just wasn't what people were used to, or it wasn't in the form that people typically hear it.

So as a result, it sounded to people as if it was too much of a departure, even though, compositionally and harmonically speaking, it's right at home and very much familiar.

I feel like the issue is that some people wanted a crazy fully orchestrated soundtrack to be playing at all times. And look, that can be fine in a game with smaller levels where you aren't wandering around the same bit of land for hours, but in Breath of the Wild it would be awful. Imagine being in Central Hyrule and just hearing the Hyrule Field theme loops dozens of times. No matter the quality of the music, that'd start grating on me pretty quick.