WW-Wii U The Wind Waker HD's Bloom Gets Dialed Back

[surferguy7]

I liked the bloom. *grumble*

 

[Fraxinus]

Except cel-shading doesn't result in a clay look. And, again, the game only has the appearance of cel-shading due to the additional lighting effect, which is dispelled in certain scenarios. I'm sorry, mandy, but it's the same art style we saw back all those months ago with some minor changes.

The clay look is not the cel-shading. The cel-shading is the cel-shading. I'm saying, Iridium, that there has been no "minor changes" in the graphical style from the older WWHD screenshots and these new ones. Simply that the screenshots Nintendo released earlier were poorly selected where the light source had not allowed for the shading to show. In the original, there were lighting inconsistencies that have been resolved. The clay-ness is part of the new HD models. The shading is added to the models and completely separate. That's what I'm saying.

The sharp separation of value on "Clay Link"'s hair is the cel-shading. (apologies for the floating Link head o-o)

this is from one of the oldest WWHD screenshots. cel-shaded

I'm not defending it because I like it. Because, again, I'm not too fond of it either. But the cel-shading is still there and the fact that people are overlooking it is bothering me.

 

[JuicieJ]

This picture is a perfect example.

The edges are softened greatly. But the light source is the item being obtained so you cannot see the shading at all.

mandems... deary, that image is one of the best examples of why it's NOT cel-shading. The original TWW never looked different in any situation, as I already went over. THIS is what the game should look like in this scenario:

The clay look is not the cel-shading. The cel-shading is the cel-shading.

mandy, you don't understand. Cel-shading isn't just the shadows; it's the entire look. That image comparing plastic shading and toon/cel-shading I've shown so many times depicts that. Cel-shading in video games is essentially designed to make something look like a drawing/cartoon come to life in 3D, which is why so many cel-shaded games have black outlines around the in-game models. It can be used in 2D games, of course, but it's not very often that this is seen. The main medium where cel-shading is seen in 2D is anime.

 

[Fraxinus]

mandems... deary, that image is one of the best examples of why it's NOT cel-shading. The original TWW never looked different in any situation, as I already went over. THIS is what the game should look like in this scenario:

Link in both of those pictures is HARDLY cel-shaded. In the top, okay, he looks like clay. But on the bottom, he looks flat. This is because the shadow is behind Link. On both pictures you can see the cel-shading on the bangs and that's about it. Because absence of shadows on the top picture, you're just looking at the default coloring/shading style of the new model. By itself, as I already said, look very similar to this. Zero shading except where the textures them embedded as a constant which are wrapped around the models.

Also, don't talk down to me. Or I won't partake in your discussions.

 

[JuicieJ]

mandems... games don't randomly change art styles like that. An art style is an art style. If a game has a cel-shaded art style, it keeps that cel-shaded art style no matter what. I don't mean to sound rude to you, but if you can't understand this, you need to do some research on what cel-shading actually is.

 

[Fraxinus]

mandems... games don't randomly change art styles like that. An art style is an art style. If a game has a cel-shaded art style, it keeps that cel-shaded art style no matter what. I don't mean to sound rude to you, but if you can't understand this, you need to do some research on what cel-shading actually is.

No. I don't understand how you're not getting what I'm saying. I see where you're coming from but I'm trying to tell you... cel-shading can exist with the clay. It IS existing with the clay. And the shading moved in the original GCN version depending on where the light source was and sometimes yielded weird light effects that betrayed what you're defining as the art style. But the art style is the STYLE of the characters. The cel-shading is the SHADING. The art style is the way the characters are proportioned, colored and everything. The shading is a part of the art style, but while there is a style change, there hasn't been much of a shading change other than the fact that the models show a static "clay" look. The models are, by default, sporting an additional layer of shading, but that is hardwired into the texture. The mobile shading is what makes it toon.

I think you're the one who needs to look up the definition of cel shading because like I said, the separation of values is still present in the SHADING of the models in this game. I cannot find a way to make it any clearer. I could cel-shade myself, do you understand? And I do not need to be in The Wind Waker's art style to be cel-shaded. I can be proportioned as I am in real life and still be cel-shaded (In fact, my sister did such a thing with one of her self portraits). And I can leave the shading that already exists on my face and combine it with cel-shading. Just because there is a slight style change from the GCN to the WiiU version does not mean they betrayed the shading. And if you're going to keep accusing me of being wrong, then whatever. At least I tried. As an artistic person, I felt I should at least try to point out the toon-shading has always been present.

 

[ProtagonistJake]

Ah okay, I get it.

So the clayness is basically from the new HD model and not a lack of cell-shading?

In that case, what would they have to do to the model to make it more like the original?

Sorry for asking, i just like learning about this kinda stuff, it's cool.

 

[JuicieJ]

Ah okay, I get it.

So the clayness is basically from the new HD model and not a lack of cell-shading?

No! It comes from it being plastic shading!

 

[JuicieJ]

IDK. What Mandy said actually makes a lot of sense. She probably knows more about art than you, too.

How wonderful that you know everything about me and my collection of knowledge, despite me giving multiple examples along with comparison images for reference. Drop by my house some time to educate me, will ya?

 

[ProtagonistJake]

No! It comes from it being plastic shading!

Ok I may not be an expert on art here mate

but according to the definition of shading
1. A screening against light or heat.
2. The lines or other marks used to fill in outlines of a sketch, engraving, or painting to represent gradations of color or darkness.
3. A small variation, gradation, or difference.
What youre saying makes no sense.

The shadow on his hair is the shading as I believe she said.

 

[JuicieJ]

What the... Ven, wtf??? You deleted your post, making my previous one be edited rather than posting a new one!

 

[Fraxinus]

Ah okay, I get it.

So the clayness is basically from the new HD model and not a lack of cell-shading?

In that case, what would they have to do to the model to make it more like the original?

Sorry for asking, i just like learning about this kinda stuff, it's cool.

They would have to make the colors flatter. If I had a texture pack of Link's model from the original, I could show you. 3D animation usually involves adding the shading at a later stage which is why most people who make Garry's Mod screenshots only have whatever shading is present in the model's texture. It's a very similar concept with this game's texture/model revamp. They're probably trying to make it similar to A Link Between Worlds' to introduce it gradually. I kind of wish they didn't though.

 

[JuicieJ]

Repost: You don't get it. Cel-shading is an art style, not something restricted to shadows. Again, art styles don't just change mid-game due to shadows looking different. Seriously, if cel-shading wasn't defined by an overall (very specific) look... then what is The Wind Waker's overarching art style? If cel-shading is just based on how shadowing is handled, then how can it be an art style?

 

[Ventus]

What the... Ven, wtf??? You deleted your post, making my previous one be edited rather than posting a new one!

I hit ALT+S too early, so "I agree with mandy." really wasn't a substantial post worth existing (imo.) Sorry about that.

ANYWAY, I agree with mandy. I don't know anything about art though, but TWW's art style to me seems "cartoony" as far as proportions go. Again don't listen to me because I know nothing about art.

 

[ProtagonistJake]

They would have to make the colors flatter. If I had a texture pack of Link's model from the original, I could show you. 3D animation usually involves adding the shading at a later stage which is why most people who make Garry's Mod screenshots only have whatever shading is present in the model's texture. It's a very similar concept with this game's texture/model revamp. They're probably trying to make it similar to A Link Between Worlds' to introduce it gradually. I kind of wish they didn't though.

Ah alright, radical.

That is very possible with the Link Between Worlds thing.

I hope it isnt though, because ALTTP and TWW have mostly different tones, and their different visuals show it.

ALTTP is very classic adventure, and has a more cinematic tone to it, so any type of visual could really work with it, except for, well, Wind Waker's.

Wind Waker has a very upbeat and cartoony tone, which contrasts well with the ironically bleak post apocalypse Hyrule setting theyre living in, thats part of why it works so well. Making it anything less like the new one for LBW ruins the brilliant contrast.
Luckily it seems its model is more similar to that of the original WW's more than LBW, but its a bit too close it and doesnt work as well because of it.