The Seal / Imprisoning War

[MrMosley]

Except that the quote never ever says it was Sealed. How can that quote be the most true account of the Seal War if it never mentions a Seal? Or even the Knights of Hyrule. Or anyting else in the manual/intro?

What the hell? I provided a quote that said the seal was cast. If Ganondorf could not find his way out, and later a seal is cast, that is OBVIOUS. He was in there when it was sealed. Each and every single quote in the game doesn't explain the entire story of the SW. Your trying to say it has to. It doesn't. Each quote works together.

You're not saying what the quotes say. You're adding to the quotes.

No, I am not. I am interpreting what they clearly say because apparently, you cannot understand them for yourself.

 

[sign of table]

What the hell? I provided a quote that said the seal was cast. If Ganondorf could not find his way out, and later a seal is cast, that is OBVIOUS.

That's the problem. You're saying that AFTER Ganondorf touched the Triforce a seal was cast. We're saying that BEFORE Ganondorf touched the Triforce a seal was cast.

Nothing what-so-ever links the SW to LttP Ganondorf. It says that Ganondorf touched the Triforce, yes, but NOTHING AT ALL says that this happens before the SR is sealed in the SW.

 

[MrMosley]

That's the problem. You're saying that AFTER Ganondorf touched the Triforce a seal was cast. We're saying that BEFORE Ganondorf touched the Triforce a seal was cast.

What exactly would that help to prove? If a seal was cast on the entrance to the SR, first of all, how would Ganondorf even get in there? And why would evil be coming out of the Sacred Realm if it were not the Dark World? And it had to become the Dark World by Ganon's wish, as I provided a quote stating that a couple of posts ago.

 

[Erimgard]

What exactly would that help to prove? If a seal was cast on the entrance to the SR, first of all, how would Ganondorf even get in there?

Because the very nature of the Seal is to keep evil in. Not to keep things out.

And why would evil be coming out of the Sacred Realm if it were not the Dark World? And it had to become the Dark World by Ganon's wish, as I provided a quote stating that a couple of posts ago.

It was the Dark World in OoT without a wish.
It was purified in between OoT and aLttP.
It became the Dark World again with a wish when Ganon entered again.

No contradiction.

 

[MrMosley]

Because the very nature of the Seal is to keep evil in. Not to keep things out.

I'm sorry, but I still fail to see how this is supposed to prove anything. I know the nature of the Seal is to keep evil in, which is exactly what it is doing. But how is that supposed to contribute to Ganondorf going in there after the Seal was cast, and how does the Seal being cast prior to Ganondorf's entering and wishing on the Triforce even help any part of your argument.

And let me throw this one out there as well. Agahnim kidnapped the maidens in an attempt to break the Seal. He wanted to do this so Ganon could be released. Again, back to the original question, why do you make it so difficult as to say the Seal was cast before Ganon was in there, when it helps nothing at all? What is Ganon's point for even being in the Dark World if the Seal was cast before he went in there?

It was the Dark World in OoT without a wish.
It was purified in between OoT and aLttP.
It became the Dark World again with a wish when Ganon entered again.

No contradiction.

Nothing says that it was purified. That is just speculation on your part. Though I could agree with that statement, it's never been quoted anywhere.

 

[TVTMaster]

It was the Dark World in OoT without a wish.
It was purified in between OoT and aLttP.
It became the Dark World again with a wish when Ganon entered again.

No contradiction.

Uh, what? There's no reason it would be the Dark World in OoT. Ganondorf kind of just stepped in there, took the Triforce of Power, which gave him the means to conquer Hyrule, and left to actually do said conquering. He never made the wish to make the SR the DW.
There's nothing saying the Dark World was purified, anywhere, and furthermore there's no proof that there even was a Dark World to purify before the Seal War. It was the Sacred Realm, watched over by the Triforce and the Goddesses. It was not a hive of evil from which poured a swarm of enemies.
When Ganon entered again and wished on the Triforce, it became the Dark World for the first time, and so evil showed up in there so that it could pour out in the first place, necessitating the Seal War. Your argument is basically based on the unfounded assumption that there was evil in the SR before Ganon entered the second time, whereas DL01 is using ingame quotes to establish a theory based on things that we know happened.

One question I still have, though is why his wish worked the second time- I highly doubt that Ganon somehow obtained a balance of courage and wisdom before entering the SR the second time. He was still an evil power-hungry despot, so shouldn't the Triforce have split up again? Why would the Triforce let him transform the SR, anyway? Why would anything do so, if the Triforce only allows wishes from people with a balance of wisdom?

 

[MrMosley]

Your argument is basically based on the unfounded assumption that there was evil in the SR before Ganon entered the second time, whereas DL01 is using ingame quotes to establish a theory based on things that we know happened.

Thank you, TVTMaster. At least now I know that two people can actually read and understand my posts.

One question I still have, though is why his wish worked the second time- I highly doubt that Ganon somehow obtained a balance of courage and wisdom before entering the SR the second time. He was still an evil power-hungry despot, so shouldn't the Triforce have split up again? Why would the Triforce let him transform the SR, anyway? Why would anything do so, if the Triforce only allows wishes from people with a balance of wisdom?

This, from what I have seen so far, is an unanswerable question. Logically, the Triforce would have split again upon Ganondorf touching it. But perhaps there is a way around it. It would have to be mere speculation, I believe. What I would suggest is that there was no way for the Triforce to split at the time. Perhaps there was no hero around, or one worthy enough of the Triforce of Courage. Since it couldn't split three ways equally, maybe that's why it did not split. Again, this is just an idea. There is nothing confirming this.

As far as why the Triforce would let Ganondorf transform the SR, that is somewhat answerable. The Triforce grants wishes to the one who touches it. The Triforce knows no good or evil, it just dictates the extent of a wish it grants. At the end of ALttP, it says that Ganon's wish was to rule the world. He was then given the Sacred Realm. I would guess this was because it was technically the world that he was in at the time. You could also speculate that by giving Ganon control of the Sacred Realm, it protected Hyrule. Though as I previously stated, the Triforce would not pick and choose how a wish is granted based on evil or good intent. So it is much more likely that by not specifying Hyrule, Ganon was given the world which he was in at the time of his wish.

 

[TVTMaster]

Thank you, TVTMaster. At least now I know that two people can actually read and understand my posts.

This, from what I have seen so far, is an unanswerable question. Logically, the Triforce would have split again upon Ganondorf touching it. But perhaps there is a way around it. It would have to be mere speculation, I believe. What I would suggest is that there was no way for the Triforce to split at the time. Perhaps there was no hero around, or one worthy enough of the Triforce of Courage. Since it couldn't split three ways equally, maybe that's why it did not split. Again, this is just an idea. There is nothing confirming this.

That's pretty likely, actually. I'm working on the assumption that Ganon, nearly destroyed from his confrontations in TP and FSA, was actually so weakened that his power was actually brought in line with his negligible courage and wisdom. I'm still not sure if it's supposed to be more of a personality balance- power-hunger rather than physical power.

As far as why the Triforce would let Ganondorf transform the SR, that is somewhat answerable. The Triforce grants wishes to the one who touches it. The Triforce knows no good or evil, it just dictates the extent of a wish it grants. At the end of ALttP, it says that Ganon's wish was to rule the world. He was then given the Sacred Realm. I would guess this was because it was technically the world that he was in at the time. You could also speculate that by giving Ganon control of the Sacred Realm, it protected Hyrule. Though as I previously stated, the Triforce would not pick and choose how a wish is granted based on evil or good intent. So it is much more likely that by not specifying Hyrule, Ganon was given the world which he was in at the time of his wish.

Yeah, I got that, I was just saying "why would it let him change it if it were to split", not saying why it would let him change it if it didn't.

 

[Hayzer]

I've come up with two theories. One is obviously bogus, but I lay claim to it anyway, and the other is in regards to FSA.

Theory #1 has OoT still being the SW. But, it involves a double split timeline, and is obviously therefore, not right. It looks like this:

------/--WW/PH--ST
-----/
----/--ALttP/LA---yhatadtkalgdjnk
OoT
----\MM--TP--askvbpoafubpwg

ALttP and WW both take off of the AT, and most of the other games could go on the MAT (middle adult timeline), and OoT remains the SW. That's the main part.

But,of course, there's nothing confirming this, but I wanted to bring it up for the sake of discussion...meh..

Anyway. The other theory looks like this:

Theory #2:

FSA is the SW...

And that's about it...

I'm still generally confused as which game should be the SW, but I lean towards FSA--ALttP

 

[Erimgard]

To the post about "there was no Dark World in OoT"

Your spirit remained in the Sacred
Realm...and then the Triforce fell
into Ganondorf's hands. He went
on to invade the Sacred Realm...
Ganondorf had become the Evil
King, and the Sacred Realm
became a world of evil.

Ganondorf, the Gerudo King of
Thieves, used it to enter this
forbidden Sacred Realm!
He obtained the Triforce from
the Temple of Light, and with its
power, he became the King of Evil...
His evil power radiated from the
temples of Hyrule, and in seven
short years, it transformed Hyrule
into a world of monsters.

@DarkLink

The Sacred Realm Seal doesn't keep people out. aLttP proves that as lots of people went in after the Seal was cast. It just keeps people/evil in after they've entered.

So whether it be OoT ro any other event, all that has to happen during the Seal war is evil flows (which did happen in OoT) and a Seal is cast (also happened in OoT).

Then, prior to aLttP, Ganon has to make a wish on the Triforce (he didn't make a wish in OoT, or any other known time in the timeline), and not be able to find his way back. If the Seal is pre-existing, that works fine.

The Seal was cast to stop whatever caused the original evil flowing, be it OoT or another event. And later, Ganon entered, and couldn't get back out. The Seal doesn't prevent entry. It prevents exit.

 

[MrMosley]

@DarkLink

The Sacred Realm Seal doesn't keep people out. aLttP proves that as lots of people went in after the Seal was cast. It just keeps people/evil in after they've entered.

So whether it be OoT ro any other event, all that has to happen during the Seal war is evil flows (which did happen in OoT) and a Seal is cast (also happened in OoT).

Then, prior to aLttP, Ganon has to make a wish on the Triforce (he didn't make a wish in OoT, or any other known time in the timeline), and not be able to find his way back. If the Seal is pre-existing, that works fine.

The Seal was cast to stop whatever caused the original evil flowing, be it OoT or another event. And later, Ganon entered, and couldn't get back out. The Seal doesn't prevent entry. It prevents exit.

I just think your making it much harder than it is just to try and prove a certain timeline. I'll use your logic and suggest a quote from ALttP that says the Seal was cast first, THEN Ganon entered. Because I have provided quotes that clearly would make anyone believe the order happened with Ganon being in the SW, finding the SR, then getting sealed. All your info is based on basically assumptions to try and make sense for LoZ to come before ALttP, and so far you haven't provided a single quote to try and prove your theory.

The Zelda series wasn't made to be a puzzle of intricate details to figure out a timeline. And even though we all use those intricate details, they are not the basis of the game's stories. In my opinion, ALttP lays it out pretty clear that Ganon was sealed in the SR during the time of the SW, the same time he wished on the Triforce. I have never, not one time, even considered that it would mean anything otherwise by playing through the game, even before I cared about the timeline and just played the game.

 

[Hayzer]

I just think your making it much harder than it is just to try and prove a certain timeline. I'll use your logic and suggest a quote from ALttP that says the Seal was cast first, THEN Ganon entered. Because I have provided quotes that clearly would make anyone believe the order happened with Ganon being in the SW, finding the SR, then getting sealed. All your info is based on basically assumptions to try and make sense for LoZ to come before ALttP, and so far you haven't provided a single quote to try and prove your theory.

The Zelda series wasn't made to be a puzzle of intricate details to figure out a timeline. And even though we all use those intricate details, they are not the basis of the game's stories. In my opinion, ALttP lays it out pretty clear that Ganon was sealed in the SR during the time of the SW, the same time he wished on the Triforce. I have never, not one time, even considered that it would mean anything otherwise by playing through the game, even before I cared about the timeline and just played the game.

I agree.

But, I just realized. I don't know DL's stance on which game the SW is. Do you refer to it as a separate event or as FSA?

 

[MrMosley]

I agree.

But, I just realized. I don't know DL's stance on which game the SW is. Do you refer to it as a separate event or as FSA?

I haven't played FSA and I haven't seen enough of it to recall much of its quotes or anything, so I can't say if I think it is the SW or not. After I play/beat it, I might change my mind. But as of right now, I see the Seal War as taking place after FSA and before ALttP.

 

[Hayzer]

I haven't played FSA and I haven't seen enough of it to recall much of its quotes or anything, so I can't say if I think it is the SW or not. After I play/beat it, I might change my mind. But as of right now, I see the Seal War as taking place after FSA and before ALttP.

I have played FSA. Even though it didn't hold my attention for long, I remember a lot about a "Dark World." There are various hints throughout the game that place it as the SW. The only contradictions are that Ganon was sealed in the Four Sword. Now, whether or not the FS was moved to the SR is debatable, but it would fit the story of the SW.

I remember playing it, and thinking "Wow...this makes little to no sense." But, of course, that was back before I did any sort of Timeline Theorizing. It flows pretty well with the BS of ALttP now that I think about it. For future reference, I think it's the SW.

 

[MrMosley]

I have played FSA. Even though it didn't hold my attention for long, I remember a lot about a "Dark World." There are various hints throughout the game that place it as the SW. The only contradictions are that Ganon was sealed in the Four Sword. Now, whether or not the FS was moved to the SR is debatable, but it would fit the story of the SW.

I remember playing it, and thinking "Wow...this makes little to no sense." But, of course, that was back before I did any sort of Timeline Theorizing. It flows pretty well with the BS of ALttP now that I think about it. For future reference, I think it's the SW.

The only problem is, Ganon is not after the Triforce in FSA. Heck I don't even think the game references the Triforce at all. And that would kinda mess up the whole idea of the Seal War in the first place. All the people of Hyrule were looking for the Sacred Realm, in order to get the Triforce. From what I understand of FSA, Ganon is trying to find some pyramid so he can get the Trident of Power. So, its kinda off. Which is why I need to play it to get more info.