The Island of Dreams

[basement24]

I was playing through Phantom Hourglass recently and something caught my attention while part way through the game that reminded me of Link's Awakening. While on the Isle of the Dead, there's the 4 books of the Explorer's Compass. Two of them make reference to the "Island of Dreams". Here's the direct quotes:

"Explorer's Compass. Riddle of the lost ancient civilization. Volume 3 "Lost Kingdom: Where Did the Island of Dreams Go?" Some say that there is treasure in the Cobble Kingdom, but no one has seen the island. Only the ancient legend remains. Some say it is an island of dreams. "Proof" must be found on the Isle of the Dead to reach the Cobble Kingdom."

Followed by:

"Volume 4 "The Small Island of the Cobble Kingdom" In the area of ocean near the Cobble Kingdom, there is an uncharted isle. Wonders are commonplace in this kingdom of dreams."

In terms of just PH alone, I was assuming the uncharted island that was written about was that of the Maze Island. It was initially uncharted, and definitely had treasures on it. It was also near by to the island that was the Cobble Kingdom. At times the clues seem to be referencing the Kingdom itself, but they do specifically state "Near the Cobble Kingdom".

Now, the other thing that caught my attention, and the main reason for this post, is that we all know that Link's Awakening took place on an island that disappeared as if it were in a dream created by the Wind Fish. The main thing that caught my attention in PH that is that there is a piece of music from LA that is called "Looking Toward The Island of Dreams". It was from 1993 and was the end credits music from Link's Awakening. With the references above to "The Island of Dreams", I was wondering if there's more of a LA / PH connection than previously though.

A few ideas are:
- The entire area of ocean travelled in PH is actually what is left of Koholint after Hyrule is flooded.
- Koholint is one of the islands in the area of ocean in PH that is not found by the player in PH, and the island nearby the Cobble Kingdom referenced wasn't Maze Island afterall
- The entire PH ocean is a dream created by the Ocean King just as Koholint was by the Wind Fish
- Both are the same story retold from different points of view and are warped by the fact that it's a legend passed down over generations (sort of like the game "telephone").

I know it seems a bit odd to state all of these possibilities based on the title of a song, but the similarities beyond the phrase "Island of Dreams" still point to some kind of connection.

Now when it comes down to timeline and placement, we might have a new problem. (Groan!) So, here's some additional possibilities:
- LA and PH are the same story on two different sides of the timeline, like an alternate reality version of one another
- LA happens to a different Link after destroying Ganon at another point in time in the same branch of the timeline, but he enters the same "Bermuda Triangle" area of the Island of Dreams

I'm not saying I subscribe to any one idea I've placed above, some of them are indeed far-fetched, so please don't post comments below stating "How could you possibly believe this nonsense!?" I'm merely intrigued by this idea of "The Island of Dreams" and the fact that LA and PH both play out in very similar fashions. I was more hoping to open some discussion on this and see what other people thought. How do you think the two are connected, if at all?

 

[Skull_Kid]

Even though they are both alternate realities, I don't think that the "Great Sea" of PH and Koholint are related.
There are, surely, some similarities between Oshus, the Ocean King, and the Wind Fish, because they maybe part of a race of ancient "whale-like" deities.
Maybe they have the hability to create dream worlds when they are in danger, and, if that's the case, we can think of Bellum more like a overpowered, overgrown Parasitic organism.

Also, I don't think that it is possible that Koholint flooded, because, it never existed, from the start, and I doubtly think that LA and PH are in the same timeline.
They can, at the most, be alternate realities of each other

 

[Zemen]

Even though they are both alternate realities, I don't think that the "Great Sea" of PH and Koholint are related.
There are, surely, some similarities between Oshus, the Ocean King, and the Wind Fish, because they maybe part of a race of ancient "whale-like" deities.
Maybe they have the hability to create dream worlds when they are in danger, and, if that's the case, we can think of Bellum more like a overpowered, overgrown Parasitic organism.

Also, I don't think that it is possible that Koholint flooded, because, it never existed, from the start, and I doubtly think that LA and PH are in the same timeline.
They can, at the most, be alternate realities of each other

I don't see why they couldn't take place on the same timeline. One of your reasons is that koholint never existed...technically, neither did any of the islands in PH, as far as were concerned. To everyone except for Link and Tetra, they were gone for only ten minutes. The only proof they had of their adventure was the Phantom Hourglass and in LA, the wind fish can be seen swimming away which is proof of that Link's adventure. Neither worlds were real, but they both took place. Why can't both Link's have had an adventure in the same, strange world on the same timeline?

 

[ChargewithSword]

The worlds are both similar and have elements that are to similar to be just coincidence. Particulary I believe that perhaps Phantom Hourglass is leading us to a bigger story about Koholint and that we'll see more of this strange world.

My take on this is that Koholint is an island that shifts from one world and the other. When the Wind Fish sleeps, the island goes to the normal reality of Hyrule with no memory of their past lives in the other world. Then when the Wind Fish wakes, the island appears in the Great Sea of the Ocean King.

 

[angelkid]

I like the idea of this. I am certainly interested in the 'Hyrule Bermuda triangle' idea. I think that perhaps it is the area in which the windfish's species, or perhaps just the windfish (if the windfish and Oshus are one and the same.) Inhabit.

Perhaps this species is territorial and once someone enters its domain it will create an illusion or a dream in which the person must fight their way through, to either prove that they mean no harm, or too fight their way out.

Or, perhaps this species has motives similar to say the Deku tree. They need to test Link for something. Which is why they create this illusion, to test in Link is worthy of being the hero who will then go on to perform some other task.

 

[Zemen]

Keep in mind that it's not Oshus who sends Link to this weird place in PH, it's the ghost ship, so I highly doubt that this is some world that Oshus has created seeing as how it was the ghost ship that sent Link and Tetra there.

Or, perhaps this species has motives similar to say the Deku tree. They need to test Link for something. Which is why they create this illusion, to test in Link is worthy of being the hero who will then go on to perform some other task.

Just to correct you, the GDT never tests Link in OoT or in WW. In OoT he's cursed and Link has to go inside and destroy Ghoma so the curse is lifted, but Link is too late by the time he kills the monster so the GDT still dies, but Link wasn't being tested. In WW, Forest Haven was under attack and one of the koroks was in there so Link was sent in there to save him. The GDT has never once tested Link. Link was always sent on necessary missions.

 

[angelkid]

Yes but its fairly obvious I would say that the deku tree is asking you to prove yourself. He already knows it is too late for him. If he did not want to test Link he would have just given him the forest spirit stone thing straight away.

 

[Skull_Kid]

Yes but its fairly obvious I would say that the deku tree is asking you to prove yourself. He already knows it is too late for him. If he did not want to test Link he would have just given him the forest spirit stone thing straight away.

I don't think that that is ever implied!
If it is, please post a quote from each game to show us.

Well, I don't think that LA and PH are on the same timeline, because I think the timeline goes something like this

/WW-PH
MC-FS-OoT
\MM-TP-FSA-ALttP-LA-LoZ-AoL-OoX

This is just a quick idea.

 

[Zemen]

Yes but its fairly obvious I would say that the deku tree is asking you to prove yourself. He already knows it is too late for him. If he did not want to test Link he would have just given him the forest spirit stone thing straight away.

Or, a more probably theory is that the GDT was too badly injured by the time Link saved him so even though Link did lift the curse, the GDT still died from over injury WHILE Link was inside of him.

Regardless, I like this theory because I feel as though that there is some connection between PH and LA and that we are meant to kind of notice that. It was so subtle, because I don't ever recall what you're talking about, so it seems like it could also just be an easter egg.

 

[Zeruda]

You know, I'm sure many people, especially Zelda veterans, caught the similarities between LA and PH. However, I think that people should consider another possibility:

It's possible if not probable that both Koholint and the areas played in PH are in the same reality. Now, notice I use the word reality, not timeline. Though the areas are accessed only in a dream state, they are almost too real to the people who adventure into them (LA!Link, TWW!Link/Tetra). Let's take a look at some interesting dialogue:

I AM THE WIND FISH...
LONG HAS BEEN MY SLUMBER...
IN MY DREAMS...AN EGG APPEARED AND WAS SURROUNDED BY AN ISLAND, WITH PEOPLE, ANIMALS, AN ENTIRE WORLD!
... ... ... ...
BUT, VERILY, IT BE THE NATURE OF DREAMS TO END! WHEN I DOST AWAKEN, KOHOLINT WILL BE GONE...
ONLY THE MEMORY OF THIS DREAM LAND WILL EXIST IN THE WAKING WORLD...
SOMEDAY, THOU MAY RECALL THIS ISLAND...
THAT MEMORY MUST BE THE REAL DREAM WORLD...
... ... ... ...
COME, Link ...
LET US AWAKEN...
TOGETHER!!

Onecan assume thatthe "dream world" and memories coincide with each other. What takes place in the "dream world" really did happen, but only to those who were witness to it. There are different worlds and realms in Zelda, so why would it be so hard to believe that a dream world is an accessible place? Could Oshus and The Wind Fish be the same? They both seem to have the same power, so it's not hard to imagine. Maybe there is more than just one of them. Maybe they are an entire race that dwell in the ocean. The "dream world" could very likely be a reality in which the land and the people change depending on what the fish-creature is dreaming, and the people that those who get caught up in the dreams meet become real to them.

The memory of these people and these adventures may then becomes accessible to them afterward when they slumber. People like LA!Link or Link and Tetra may be able to revisit these worlds when they dream, as they now have the memory of these worlds, so they are easy to recreate as they sleep.

It's just a thought, and definitely not canon. But, it is an interesting theory.

 

[Zemen]

You know, I'm sure many people, especially Zelda veterans, caught the similarities between LA and PH. However, I think that people should consider another possibility:

It's possible if not probable that both Koholint and the areas played in PH are in the same reality. Now, notice I use the word reality, not timeline. Though the areas are accessed only in a dream state, they are almost too real to the people who adventure into them (LA!Link, TWW!Link/Tetra). Let's take a look at some interesting dialogue:

I AM THE WIND FISH...
LONG HAS BEEN MY SLUMBER...
IN MY DREAMS...AN EGG APPEARED AND WAS SURROUNDED BY AN ISLAND, WITH PEOPLE, ANIMALS, AN ENTIRE WORLD!
... ... ... ...
BUT, VERILY, IT BE THE NATURE OF DREAMS TO END! WHEN I DOST AWAKEN, KOHOLINT WILL BE GONE...
ONLY THE MEMORY OF THIS DREAM LAND WILL EXIST IN THE WAKING WORLD...
SOMEDAY, THOU MAY RECALL THIS ISLAND...
THAT MEMORY MUST BE THE REAL DREAM WORLD...
... ... ... ...
COME, Link ...
LET US AWAKEN...
TOGETHER!!

Onecan assume thatthe "dream world" and memories coincide with each other. What takes place in the "dream world" really did happen, but only to those who were witness to it. There are different worlds and realms in Zelda, so why would it be so hard to believe that a dream world is an accessible place? Could Oshus and The Wind Fish be the same? They both seem to have the same power, so it's not hard to imagine. Maybe there is more than just one of them. Maybe they are an entire race that dwell in the ocean. The "dream world" could very likely be a reality in which the land and the people change depending on what the fish-creature is dreaming, and the people that those who get caught up in the dreams meet become real to them.

The memory of these people and these adventures may then becomes accessible to them afterward when they slumber. People like LA!Link or Link and Tetra may be able to revisit these worlds when they dream, as they now have the memory of these worlds, so they are easy to recreate as they sleep.

It's just a thought, and definitely not canon. But, it is an interesting theory.

It's not a bad theory but the one thing that everyone seems to forget is that Oshus DID NOT send Link and Tetra to this weird world they are in, the Ghost Ship did. People get confused and think that the Wind Fish and Oshus have the same power to create a dream world, but Oshus never does anything of the sort.

 

[ChargewithSword]

It's not a bad theory but the one thing that everyone seems to forget is that Oshus DID NOT send Link and Tetra to this weird world they are in, the Ghost Ship did. People get confused and think that the Wind Fish and Oshus have the same power to create a dream world, but Oshus never does anything of the sort.

It's called the World of the Ocean King, and although Oshus didn't send them to the world, he had sent them out. That should provide the same effects as "going in." I also think that the fact that Oshus basically is meant to have power over the entire Sea (or as rumored by the pirates.)

 

[Zeruda]

It's not a bad theory but the one thing that everyone seems to forget is that Oshus DID NOT send Link and Tetra to this weird world they are in, the Ghost Ship did. People get confused and think that the Wind Fish and Oshus have the same power to create a dream world, but Oshus never does anything of the sort.

Nonono, I never said Oshus sent Link and Tetra there. Nobody is to say that The Wind Fish send LA!Link to Koholint, either. I'm pointing out that the "dream world(s)" are connected to the waking world. When I say Oshus and The Wind Fish have the same power, I'm referring to the power to cross back and forth between both worlds.

For example, in LA, it's made obvious that everything in Koholint, including Koholint itself, is of The Wind Fish's dream, yet Link, a person from the waking world, is in that dream. And, at the end, Link sees The Wind Fish soaring above. Symbolic, yes? What's up is down? "THAT MEMORY MUST BE THE REAL DREAM WORLD..."

In PH, the one of the other pirates (while in the waking world) mentions that the seas are protected by a spirit called the "Ocean King". Unlike LA, the fish creature isn't seen in the waking world in PH. However, there is one very big similarity: a wish being granted. In LA, Marin wishes to become a seagull and fly away freely. With the special ending, she is granted that wish. However, that isn't necessarily canon, as it is a special ending. But, in PH, another wish is granted: Linebeck is given his ship back, and Link sees him in the waking world. It seems that in both cases, somebody from the "dream" was brought to "reality". It makes you (or Link, even) question the reality of TLoZ.

The Ghost Ship was made to drain life force, and it was drawn to Tetra's power. As the Ocean King said, "She didn't find it... It found her." What's even more interesting is that like the fish creatures, the ship can traverse between Link & Tetra's world and the Ocean King's world. At the end of the game, the Ocean King says that the Ghost Ship will no longer haunt Link & Tetra's world. Tetra questions what the world they are currently in is, but is not given an answer.

Because of this lack of an asnwer, one can start comparing similarities between LA and PH.

So, it seems that it may be a possibility that lands like Koholint and those found in PH may be actual worlds that are only accessed by people of the world of Hyrule through dreams. In a way, they are real. Maybe, maybe not.




Another interesting possibility is that these worlds are accessed by people of the "waking world" when they slumber, so maybe creatures like the Ocean King and The Wind Fish access the "waking world" when they slumber. Places like Koholint may actually exist, so they don't actually "disappear", it's just that those who are accessing them via a fish-creature's dream lose contact with that world. To those sleeping, it seems like the world disappears. But, after having that dream, they now have a memory of it, so they should be able to dream it again without the aid of one of these fish-creatures, making the "dream world" real because they can access it.