ST - Second Split?

[Simon]

I recently replayed the last section of Spirit Tracks and a thought hit me: could it cause a second split in the timeline? Now, the vast majority of Zelda fans will know of the popular split timeline theory, where the timeline splits into two alternate realities after OoT. Many fans also believe the game the Minish Cap places after Spirit Tracks in the timeline. One reason for this is the hero from the Minish Cap's role as a guard of the royal family, and the green clothing he wears in that role, a clothing scheme also seen in Spirit Tracks. Towards the end of Spirit Tracks you are asked if you want to be a Warrior or an Engineer. What if this also causes a split in which two hypothetical realities are created, in which choosing to be a Warrior would have led to Minish Cap and choosing to be an Engineer would lead to another game yet to be released? I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether you think this would be feasible or just the product of an over-active imagination .

 

[Zemen]

That's just a decision asked in the game. If you are going to base that question on whether a split exists then there would be endless splits as the player has the decision to do all sorts of things. Should I buy this potion? If I buy the potion then is there an alternate timeline where I didn't buy the potion? You can't base a timeline on a simple question that was asked at the beginning of the game. I'm pretty sure the game isn't changed at all based on how you answered the question. Also, no where in Minish Cap does it say that the hero of men was a knight/guard for the royal family.

 

[Locke]

Timeline splits aren't created from 'what-if' scenarios, or we'd have an infinite number of timelines. The split in OoT is only there because Zelda specifically meddled with the flow of time.

On a related note, I do see a potential split in ST, but of location, not the timeline. It may be possible for events to occur in New Hyrule at the same time as other events occurring in the land above old Hyrule. We know that Aonuma likes to create many opportunities for inserting new stories in the timeline (evidenced most recently by his refusal to declare SS as the first story, thus opening up that position for future games). I think the introduction of a new land has opened up the option of two locations, aside from two timelines. Whereas before ST there were three places to put new games (before the split, on the AT, and on the CT [or arguably a 4th place, in termina, independent of Hyrule timeline splits]), now there's four places: before the split, on the AT where Hyrule was, on the AT in New Hyrule, and on the CT (in addition to the possibility of a CT New Hyrule, and again Termina). But this doesn't affect the timeline overall.

 

[Simon]

That's just a decision asked in the game. If you are going to base that question on whether a split exists then there would be endless splits as the player has the decision to do all sorts of things. Should I buy this potion? If I buy the potion then is there an alternate timeline where I didn't buy the potion? You can't base a timeline on a simple question that was asked at the beginning of the game. I'm pretty sure the game isn't changed at all based on how you answered the question. Also, no where in Minish Cap does it say that the hero of men was a knight/guard for the royal family.

Not the Hero of Men but the one before who sealed the monsters into the chest I'm fairly sure was a guard/soldier of some sort. And my point is that it is a decision that changes the ending of the game and could change the future (given Link's legendary status) whereas the small things you are talking about are merely tiny differences in journeys moving towards the same end.

 

[Locke]

Not the Hero of Men but the one before who sealed the monsters into the chest I'm fairly sure was a guard/soldier of some sort.

The Hero of Men sealed the monsters into the chest, and Zemen's right about him.

 

[DeletedUser9]

Huh? I fail to see any reason to think that The Minish Cap comes after Spirit Tracks on the timeline... or at least for the reasons you've stated.

You can't base a timeline on a simple question that was asked at the beginning of the game.

End of the game.

Not the Hero of Men but the one before who sealed the monsters into the chest I'm fairly sure was a guard/soldier of some sort. And my point is that it is a decision that changes the ending of the game and could change the future (given Link's legendary status) whereas the small things you are talking about are merely tiny differences in journeys moving towards the same end.

The Hero of Man and the one who sealed the chest are the same. And there is nothing stating he was a soldier. You'll need to back that up with a quote or some kind of basis.

In Spirit Tracks Link was not legendary. Link from The Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass was, hence the reason for the green clothes on the guards, but the Link from Spirit Tracks was pretty much unknown to anyone but Zelda, and maybe Alfonzo.


PS: And for the record, the Split Timeline is less of a theory and more like a confirmed fact these days, at least relating to OoT, TWW and TP.

 

[PhantomTriforce]

No, I do not believe this will cause a split in the timeline. Link is a warrior, and a Zelda game would not be a Zelda game if he was an engineer.

 

[DuckNoises]

Towards the end of Spirit Tracks you are asked if you want to be a Warrior or an Engineer. What if this also causes a split in which two hypothetical realities are created, in which choosing to be a Warrior would have led to Minish Cap and choosing to be an Engineer would lead to another game yet to be released? I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether you think this would be feasible or just the product of an over-active imagination

This is Zelda, not Mass Effect. They wouldn't make a timeline split based on a player's decision, because that would complicate timeline theory more than it already is, because it would be based entirely upon a player's choice.

I don't think that's sufficient to warrant another timeline split. The only existing split exists because it fiddled with the space-time continuum, causing two realities of vast difference, one where Ganondorf is defeated and another where he is not. Not to mention the breaking of the Triforce (as seen in TWW) when Link is sent back in time at the end of OoT; that is another monumental occasion that demonstrates the importance of OoT's ending. I'd argue that OoT's ending is the single most influential ending in terms of timeline theory in the franchise's history, mainly because it creates two different realities that are blatantly apparent -- hence the split timeline.
As Zemen said, unless that decision turns out to be of earth-shattering importance, it won't influence the timeline. I think that that choice at the end of the game is just to make reference to how the people of ST praise Link for his heroics, some for his skills in battle, and some for how he helps communities through the use of his train. It's as if the game is asking you which of your dual set of talents you thought was more beneficial to being a Hero.

 

[ottobot]

i doubt that this choice would create a timeline split. well it would split the timeline, but link in that game wasn't that well known, so any differences between the universes would probably not last anymore than ten years after link retires. although, it could be that ST links kids followed in his footsteps, meaning that link in a future game would be raised in a fighting role or a building role, but i doubt it.
(p.s. if you're wondering about the bomb after the word building, it was the closest smilie i could find to something a builder would use.)

 

[Mr.Verto]

I agree (sort of) in MC someone states that Link and Zelda have been friends since very young, in ST everyone is saying Link is very young to be an engineer. It makes sense both are young then in ST and Link turns into a guard (if you want to) that would explain why he is wearing that clothing in MC. BUT where did the king form MC came from then?

It seems a little odd but possibly, this is Zelda

 

[ItsJustTheChad]

Wow Simon! That's a cool thought. Ahaha. Imagine engineer Link! I love listening to all timeline theories and this one is pretty playful I like it.

 

[Simon]

I think I messed up by stating that the Hero of Men was definitely a guard/soldier. I meant it is very likely as he just appeared with a sword etc. dressed in the clothes of the guards from ST. Sorry about that. Also in MC Hyrule had obviously been in existence for a long time considering the gravestones in the royal graveyard. IMO it is a continuation of ST's New Hyrule. There is more evidence for this placement but I can't find it now. Also, don't take this too seriously, it is just a bit of fun. No-one really considered the split timeline in the first place until WW came along because it made a clear case. What if a game comes along, in which Link's ancestors were train engineers, that doesn't fit into the current timeline?

 

[Pseudocide]

wouldnt cause a split, it would just be left up to official canon as which was picked ie. Oox's multiple ending or even dying in game which theoretically could cause a split world where link is dead

 

[DuckNoises]

No-one really considered the split timeline in the first place until WW came along because it made a clear case.

That's not altogether true; people realized that the ending of OoT would, in fact, create an alternate reality, and said reality could (and would) greatly influence how others perceive the world of Zelda. In fact, it can be argued that OoT is truly what spurred timeline discussion in the first place, because of the enormous plot developments in the game itself. Before OoT, there wasn't really any confusion in the timeline, and it was much more of a clear-cut sort of thing. It was after OoT that people really began to question the placement of each game, and people began to fully realize that there was some sort of definitive order of the games, and claims about it would be disputed (take the "Miyamoto Order," for instance). OoT was the first game to really establish a major element of connectivity between all the games. At that point, gamers had acknowledged the ramifications of the ending, and that complicated debate about it tremendously. People had speculated that there would be a game that would take a definitive place after one of the realities posed by the ending of OoT, but they hadn't known to what extent it would reach and in which reality it would take place. In that respect, your argument does have merit, but people were definitely not entirely unaware of there being such a notion as the split timeline.

What if a game comes along, in which Link's ancestors were train engineers, that doesn't fit into the current timeline?

Such a possibility is an open one, but that is not a discussion to be having at the moment. Should another game come along that suggests such a thing was the case, then it would certainly be a common debate. The thing is, in order for an event at the end of a game to create such theories before another game approving it was released, the ending would have to be of such enormity and magnitude that leaving its implications behind wouldn't be an option. There are few examples of this, and one of them is the ending of OoT, which I mentioned above.

 

[Master]

Technically , you are right , about the timeline spliting there , not about minish cap . Because in real life , it is true when people say "If you kill a butterfly in the past , it will change the future drastically ". It is mainly the actions that changes everything . I watch this thing in the History Channel where it said that "...There are millions of Dimensions... " and "what every could of happened , did...". What is was trying to say is , like , if you had a cup of milk , and you spilled it , in an other Dimension , you didn't , and in the next dimension , you did . So that's where the saying "What ever could of happened , did " applies . So the question "Do you want to an engineer or an warrior" could just be one of billions of questions that created a new timeline . When i say "...one of billions..." i am talking about all of the questions ever asked in the Zelda series . Like "Do you want a blue or Red potion ? " or "Do you want to go to the Water Temple first ?".
But i really don't know what to say about the Connection from Spirit Tracks to Minish cap and/or an other new game yet to be released...