Spoilers: Interpreting LA's Ending

[February Eve]

To my knowledge, I could only choose one prefix, hence the spoiler in the title...which you probably guessed anyway, due to it the subject. Still, major plot spoilers.

In Link's Awakening, he is originally on a boat. His boat is destroyed, and he later reawakens on Koholint Island. We find out later that the island is a dream of the Wind Fish, and when you defeat the game, awakening the Wind Fish, Link also reawakens on a piece of driftwood in the ocean.

This lends itself to several questions that I'm open to discussing, but the biggest one on my mind right now is: Exactly what happened to Link's body during the time between his shipwreck and the time he woke up? After all, he was unconscious in the middle of an ocean, which is not a particularly safe place to be. Here are some theories I've pondered or read in another thread.

1) Link's body is somehow physically pulled into the dream. How is beyond me, but it is a magical dream, and would preclude the possibility of drowning in the "real" world (for lack of a better word.)

2) Link, being in a magical dream with the Wind Fish, is somehow preserved by magic (like in the first episode of "Avatar: the Last Airbender" though not exactly the same way, of course.)

3) The dream happens in a blink of an eye, therefore not giving him enough time to drown. It doesn't entirely explain the storm abating - unless that storm was actually the physical manifestation of the Wind Fish's nightmare and it calmed after it was awakened.

And going back to the "middle of the ocean" problem - what do you suppose happened to Link after he awoke? Obviously this can only be speculation, but...was he near another island? Did another ship rescue him?

Side discussions of the Wind Fish's powers and where the line falls between fantasy and reality in the game are welcome, as I think it'd be impossible to broach the topic without those.

Any thoughts?

 

[DuckNoises]

I really think Link does die after the credits roll, which makes a fantastic, mysterious and suspenseful ending so much more phenomenal. (Please excuse my gushing over that ending; I really adored it ) I think that Link dying after the ending really reflects the serious tone that the plot takes, while at the same time, contrasting the feeling of disbelief, illusion, and whimsy due to the characters and all the fourth wall-breaking throughout the rest of the game. I believe the tablet on the wall in the Southern Face Shrine (where you fight the giant Armos Knight boss) said something about the "Dream will end when the dreamer wakes." This brings it to the question, was it Link's dream or the Wind Fish's dream that we see? If it was the Wind Fish's dream, then Link must have died, because he no longer exists; is Link a figment of the Wind Fish's subconscious, if not a figment of his own subconscious? I really love all the philosophical parallels that are made by LA; absolutely genius.

If he'd been alive, was he not kept alive because of the dream itself? What's more is that the secret ending brings everything into question again, and makes you question which reality is the "dream" and which is "real."

Just going on a philosophy tangent:

One thing that this game always reminded me of was Plato's notion of the "spiritual world" versus the "material world." Two separate realities, and everything in all realities consists of a material component and a "spiritual" component (body versus soul, if you will); for each material component, there is a "spiritual" component. The spiritual world is made up of ideal objects, and the material of imperfect objects. This is why I felt that there were so many parallels between Link's past adventures and what he finds in Koholint, and how everything in one world seems to be composed of parts of the other.

Nevertheless, there is a link between the two, and I wrote something about it when discussing Freud and his analyses of the subconscious and dreams. (I wrote an entire essay on two joined realities; I'll see if I can find it and scan it) Essentially, what it boils down to is that to each respective world, they perceive their own world as the world of reality, and the other one the world of spirit; the spirit world sees itself as the material world and the material world the spirit world, and vice versa. That is to say that each world sees itself as "true" reality; this furthers the ambiguity of the nature of "the dream" and who the "dreamer" really is. However, it is possible to prove that reality exists independent of its perception in either world (as I did something of the sort in my essay), and that both worlds exist as their own reality, with the other reality being the world of "dream" (or "spirit," as Plato believed). That begs the question, if both Link and the Windfish are "the dreamer" and the other the "dream," do they both die in the other's perception of reality (hence, why they never see each other again)? Do they merely both cease to exist in both the physical and metaphysical, since they are both the dreamer and are both each other's dream, because they are both physical and metaphysical, each in at least one reality, respectively?



This also brings to the table the notion of reality itself; since both realities are real in their own eyes, does that mean that they are both truly real? In acknowledging that, could either Link or the Wind Fish consciously (pardon the pun) end the other's reality? If so, is this the case at the end of the game? Should we judge one reality to be more real than the other? If some objects appear in both realities, it could mean that they are either independent of one's perception of reality (being of the material in both worlds) or entirely dependent of reality (being of the metaphysical in both worlds).


Even without deep philosophical questioning, it still seems to me that Link dies at the end, because he's more or less left for dead in the middle of the ocean. He can't use the Ballad of the Wind Fish to try and influence reality, either because it only exists in (Link's own) metaphysical sense, or merely because it's very difficult to play a wind-based musical instrument while floating in the water.

Either way, I hope this wasn't impossible to follow. I hope it was informative and somewhat understandable. I'd go into more detail about the secret LA ending (obtained by beating the game without dying at all), but I don't want to spoil it for anyone who hasn't done it yet. (That also means I don't expect anyone else to spoil it!)

 

[mab246801234]

This brings it to the question, was it Link's dream or the Wind Fish's dream that we see? If it was the Wind Fish's dream, then Link must have died, because he no longer exists; is Link a figment of the Wind Fish's subconscious, if not a figment of his own subconscious? I really love all the philosophical parallels that are made by LA; absolutely genius. [/B]

Well link can't be dead while he was in the dream. Because at the end you see that he is obviously still alive on a piece of wood in the middle of the ocean. He could have died anytime after that but not before. If you watch the beginning credits you'll see link on a boat. I personally think the boat must have crashed into something. And this would have knocked link out. Then sending him to Koholint Island island.

 

[Flagpole]

I've just won the sixth dungeon in the game, and especially saw the introduction to the game, in which Link is hit by a ray, while he is in the middle of the sea, with a storm above him...

One way to interprete the ending is one said in the first post: Link is physically pulled into the dream.
One way Link can be pulled into the dream is by some strange kind of connection between the real life and the dream, in which Link ges hit by a ray in real life, then ends with his little boat on the dream. Writers many times write stories like this, in which fantasy confuses with real life, thus making an impossible connection between them.
Another way is that the Egg Wind Fish is some kind of magical creature, which, when it has a so strong dream like the Koholint Island one, it becomes real.

The most logical answer I have of Koholint Island, though, is taht it's all a dream of Link.
First off, before I explain my theory, remember people that when you get striked by a ray, there's a chance you don't die. Now, on to my theory.

Koholint Island, as stated above, is just a dream to me.
Actually, being Koholint Island a dream from the Wind Fish would actually make nonsense: imagine you are in a dream, and you see yourself dreaming inside the dream, if you woke yourself up inside the dream waking up in the real life wouldn't be the most probable thing it would happen to you, or would it?
My theory:

Koholint Island represents Link being on the boat, lonely, in the middle of a sea: islands are in the middle of the seas, and an unkown island, like Koholint Island, is a lonely place, so the island would represent Link's boat, and Link would represent... well, Link XD
The people in there might probably be people Link had met during his life, as well as the monsters, heart pieces, rupees: the life Link had always known.
Koholint Island would also be like the exterior part of the core of Link's brain.
Each dungeon would represent what connects Link's exterior part of his brain core and his brain core.
Finally, the Egg would represent Link's brain core.
Meh, that's my poor theory .

 

[DuckNoises]

Well link can't be dead while he was in the dream. Because at the end you see that he is obviously still alive on a piece of wood in the middle of the ocean. He could have died anytime after that but not before. If you watch the beginning credits you'll see link on a boat. I personally think the boat must have crashed into something. And this would have knocked link out. Then sending him to Koholint Island island.

There's a lot more majesty in the game if you don't accept the implications it presents, because they're just that -- implications. We can't just look at visual evidence to interpret it, because a simple conclusion as this doesn't seem to fit the game's narrative at all. I gather that you didn't quite get the gist of my post, so I'd suggest that you read it again. Don't ignore what you can't understand in the game, especially because that is the core of the game's story. That's why I brought in so many philosophical parallels -- to address what might otherwise not be understood.
I'd also like to mention that Link would be in critical condition after being unconscious due to a shipwreck, which certainly would have induced some form of comatose state; it's not uncommon for people to die or flat-line sometime during or shortly after a coma.
To be perfectly honest, I really don't understand why so many people jump to a simple conclusion with the game's ending rather than actually questioning what is presented at the end; I feel it is much more effective to look at the symbolism and themes presented throughout the game.

Again, I'd like to bring up the secret ending. There is a large revelation which really brings into question what would otherwise be a lacklustre and blatantly simple conclusion to the game. I can't go into detail, but it requires you to pay close attention to the dialogue throughout the entire game. I cannot stress just how much of an impact this has on the game's story as a whole.

Actually, being Koholint Island a dream from the Wind Fish would actually make nonsense: imagine you are in a dream, and you see yourself dreaming inside the dream, if you woke yourself up inside the dream waking up in the real life wouldn't be the most probable thing it would happen to you, or would it?

Probability has nothing to do with it, my friend.

I've just won the sixth dungeon in the game, and especially saw the introduction to the game, in which Link is hit by a ray, while he is in the middle of the sea, with a storm above him...

You'll definitely want to finish the entire game before posting here. I don't mean to be exclusive, but this goes for everyone; experiencing the ending is vitally important to understanding the game as a whole.

 

[February Eve]

This is one of my few pet theories about Zelda - I don't expect anyone to subscribe to mine, but I personally like it. Like I mentioned in one of my options, I think the storm that Link got caught in was a physical manifestation of the Wind Fish's nightmare. For fuzzy reasons (the wind fish is magical, Link is the chosen hero) , Link fares better than a regular person would in such a scenario and actually able to participate in the dream. In my mind, during this time Link has in one sense "drowned." But in another sense, Koholint is like a purgatory. If Link were to die in the dream his death is real, but awakening the wind fish gives him a second chance as well.

A quote from a Harry Potter book (I won't spoil the concept) fits this perfectly: "Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?" The perfect ending is another illustration of that.

So the reason I didn't answer you the first time, Ducknoises - besides the fact that I was posting the thread - was because we have similar interpretations of Link dying, but at different points during the game. But to be fair, I still don't know how Link would get rescued from the middle of the ocean. Pirates?

 

[Link-182]

SPOLIERS FOR PHANTOM HOURGLASS

So when you beat PH, the Ocean King transforms into a white whale, (oddly familiar to the whale in Link's Awakening known as the wind fish? hmm...). He tells you that he's going to return you to your world, and Tetra is like "Our world, what do you mean?"
I believe this is referring to the Ocean King/ Wind Fish's dream world where he takes people, and Tetra's/ Link's world is reality so to speak.

Now, when Tetra gets back to "their world" the pirates say they were only gone about 10 minutes, and she was freaking out at them because the pirates didn't believe they went on a huge adventure. So my verdict is that the dream in Link's Awakening didn't last very long, just like the adventure in Phantom Hourglass.

 

[DuckNoises]

SPOLIERS FOR PHANTOM HOURGLASS

So when you beat PH, the Ocean King transforms into a white whale, (oddly familiar to the whale in Link's Awakening known as the wind fish? hmm...). He tells you that he's going to return you to your world, and Tetra is like "Our world, what do you mean?"
I believe this is referring to the Ocean King/ Wind Fish's dream world where he takes people, and Tetra's/ Link's world is reality so to speak.

Now, when Tetra gets back to "their world" the pirates say they were only gone about 10 minutes, and she was freaking out at them because the pirates didn't believe they went on a huge adventure. So my verdict is that the dream in Link's Awakening didn't last very long, just like the adventure in Phantom Hourglass.

I don't think this is particularly relevant to the discussion at the moment. However, there is a similar discussion to that located here: http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?13237-Wind-Fish-Vs.-Ocean-King

This is one of my few pet theories about Zelda - I don't expect anyone to subscribe to mine, but I personally like it. Like I mentioned in one of my options, I think the storm that Link got caught in was a physical manifestation of the Wind Fish's nightmare. For fuzzy reasons (the wind fish is magical, Link is the chosen hero) , Link fares better than a regular person would in such a scenario and actually able to participate in the dream. In my mind, during this time Link has in one sense "drowned." But in another sense, Koholint is like a purgatory. If Link were to die in the dream his death is real, but awakening the wind fish gives him a second chance as well.

A quote from a Harry Potter book (I won't spoil the concept) fits this perfectly: "Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?" The perfect ending is another illustration of that.

So the reason I didn't answer you the first time, Ducknoises - besides the fact that I was posting the thread - was because we have similar interpretations of Link dying, but at different points during the game. But to be fair, I still don't know how Link would get rescued from the middle of the ocean. Pirates?

Ah, taking the Lost finale route, are we?
I think that's definitely a possibility, because that fits in very well with the motif of dream and the notion of an otherworldly situation possibly pertaining to a heaven/purgatory-type scenario.

Note that, I don't think he lives; shortly after waking up, I think that he passes out again, and subsequently drowns, because there isn't much that would imply that he would be rescued. He may have "died" temporarily and come back to life later, as is occasionally the case with coma-like symptoms (which I referred to in an earlier post). In a coma, there can be a long period of very minor signs of life (a near vegetative state), and shift into a very gradual death. When the death is so gradual and slow, there are very rare cases where someone has technically died and then come back to life momentarily; I say momentarily because Link could be seriously injured, and after such a brief recovery it's possible (if not probable) that they die "again." Such a scenario seems to be the case with Link, to me, at least.

There are also cases where someone has physically died, but there is still function in some parts of the body temporarily; that is another possibility.

 

[bradley]

I actually believe Link is not dreaming at all, but instead the island was created by the Wind Fish's dream. He is a deity, so he is capable of mysterious things such as this.
Evidence:
One can usually remember very little of their dreams. The island he created in his mind disappears when he wakes up, so it is all just a dream to him.
Link wakes up the Wind Fish. I don't understand how you can wake somebody up when you are in their dream, since whatever you do, they will just be dreaming it anyway.
Link still has his sword and shield, which leads me to believe he has been shipwrecked on an actual island. In addition, the inhabitants of the island seem to know very little about their past. While these last two in know way prove that Link wasn't dreaming, I think that they support my theory pretty well.
I could probably come up with some more evidence that supports my theory, but right now I'm tired. Just felt like adding my two cents.

 

[DuckNoises]

I actually believe Link is not dreaming at all, but instead the island was created by the Wind Fish's dream. He is a deity, so he is capable of mysterious things such as this.
Evidence:
One can usually remember very little of their dreams. The island he created in his mind disappears when he wakes up, so it is all just a dream to him.
Link wakes up the Wind Fish. I don't understand how you can wake somebody up when you are in their dream, since whatever you do, they will just be dreaming it anyway.
Link still has his sword and shield, which leads me to believe he has been shipwrecked on an actual island. In addition, the inhabitants of the island seem to know very little about their past. While these last two in know way prove that Link wasn't dreaming, I think that they support my theory pretty well.

My stance on the matter is that both Link and the Wind Fish are in the dreams of each other. Relative to themselves, they are in their own, true reality; relative to each other, they are in the other one's dream. I'm under the impression that they are in the same dream, but the nature of "dream" to the Wind Fish and Link are different. What the Wind Fish experiences and perceives is his own reality, but in this same reality, Link also exists, but this is not the reality to which Link is accustomed. Conversely, Link sees the Wind Fish in his reality (outside of the "dream"), and the Wind Fish is foreign to this reality. Essentially, what I am saying is that they both exist in both realities, but their perception of which reality is the "true" or "physical" reality differs based on the individual, because their perception of reality is done on a subjective basis.

 

[PhantomTriforce]

Well, this is how I interpret it. Link goes unconscious when his ship crashes, and has an odd dream, which are the events of LA. But as he regains consciousness, things become more clear, and the island starts disappearing. But the reason his dream is odd is because part of it was actually true, as you see the windfish at the end.

 

[Michael Heide]

Link is the Wind Fish, and a Dream Within a Dream.

I just read this brilliant article about both Koholint and Termina being dreams. The writer certainly has a point, and yet every single one of his reasons why Koholint is a dream shared by Link and the Wind Fish points to one other conclusion as well. It doesn't have to be a shared dream. One thing in particular was interesting:

The Nightmares, particularly the final one, also show a strong connection to Hyrule. During the final battle the nightmare takes on many shapes. One of the first forms is of Moldorm, a memorable boss from the Tower of Hera. Another of those forms is Agahnim, whom Link fought twice in his previous adventure. Lastly there is the form of Ganon himself, complete with the trident. Though it could be said that they were just reusing enemies, I believe they specifically drawn from Link's mind.

They most certainly were. There is only one sleeper (as several characters on Koholint explicitly state). And it is Link. Link is the Wind Fish. When he sees the Wind Fish (and seagull Marin) at the end of the credits, he doesn't literally see them. That's just the moment when he remembers them, when he remembers the dream. Notice that he just woke up moments earlier. He was the one sleeping. He was the Wind Fish.

However, thinking about all of that made me realize that the whole "Wind Fish dreams us all" scenario was familiar even back when I first played the game. It is highly reminescent of the Red King from Through the Looking Glass. Most likely the game developers were influenced by Carroll...

...but it's not like the Zelda series was without its own Red King, or "King of Red Lions". In Wind Waker, the King is the central character of the story. He is the one who pushes Link through dungeon after dungeon to act as a proxy for him. He is the one who hides Tetra in Hyrule Castle. He is the one making the wish once the Triforce is complete. Link is just a puppet with no real motivation for most of the game. He is just in it to save his sister, an event that doesn't have much to do with the main story around Ganondorf and the submerged Hyrule. The real driving force behind the story, the protagonist opposing Ganondorf - is the Red King, Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule, popping up inexplicably from nowhere every now and then. I mean, how does he reach Ganon's Tower? And if it was that easy, why didn't he take Link with him, bypassing the four minibosses? There's one easy explanation: Dream logic. If all of Wind Waker is the dream of the Red King, he can come and go as he pleases.

And now it's getting interesting. Ever since he was first introduced in Zelda II, the King of Hyrule was shown in red garment, he's always been a Red King. Now what if all of the games were dreams? What if Hyrule is Wonderland, a dream by the sleeping Red King? This would explain the inconsistencies from game to game, like the Master Sword in the Oracle games or the turncoat Zoras. This would explain the "Goddess vs Oracle" debate around Nayru, Farore and Din. This would explain the problems with the timeline. There is no timeline. Every game is a new dream. There are recurring motifs, but the rest is made up by whatever is in the King's subconsciousness from that day. Sometimes, Zelda is a lady, sometimes, she is a wild tomboy. Sometimes, he might be sick and worried about dying, and the next dream might show him dead and buried (like in Adventure of Link or Minish Cap). This also explains why characters like the carpenters or Gorman appear in completely different roles in different games. They are based on characters in the King's real world, taking on the roles of whatever is needed in the current dream.

Now who is Link? He is the part of the Red King's consciousness that actively explores the dreamworld. He literally is the link between the King's consciousness and his subconsciousness. The King acts through this link (most notably in Wind Waker). That's why it's so important for Link to protect the Princess. And that's why we never see Link and Zelda kissing, holding hands or worse. She is his daughter.

So when Link (the dream persona of the King) dreams of Koholint, that is a dream within a dream, a matryoshka dream if you will (just like in Inception).

When the Red King awakens, all of Hyrule will go out - bang - like a candle. But don't worry. At the end of the day, he will fall asleep again, and create a new Hyrule.

 

[TheGreen]

Interesting theory. I can follow your logic, but there isn't enough to definitively prove that it's true (and such is nature of theories), but it is viable. Personally, I prefer a timeline and a realness to the story. To call every game a different dream is a bit loopy.

I like the idea, but what about Link's Awakening? Where is the Red King? Well he's dreaming; that's fine. But why then in the Wind Waker, OoT, others, is his dream-self (Link as you say) in the same dream as is his real self? Also, what's stopping Zelda from being the dreamer? or Link himself?

Of course you have the explination that anything can happen because it's a dream, but then I'd think there would be more of a forumla to the appearance/lack-there of the king.

Also, if your theory is true, in Link's Awakening, there is a dream within a dream within a dream which is really trippy. (when he gets the ocarina)

I think the Wind Fish is real. At the end of Link's Awakening, [opinion]it's not his remembering of the dream, but rather is realization that he didn't just dream it all. He did actually go on an adventure and defeat the evil forces. Before he sees the wind fish he is remembering the dream and contemplating the idea that it was only dream, but he finds that is not the case as evidenced by the his seeing the Wind Fish.[/opinion]

 

[bbevington90]

It's very interesting, I'll give you that. I'll definitely give you the Wind Fish being Link, because that's really the only logical thing to think about that ending. Unfortunately, the every game is a dream thing is kind of awkward. There's not really any evidence to support it. Inconsistencies are just that, inconsistencies, which have come from the games being made without a real timeline being thought of (at least originally).

 

[Satsy]

When you came to the point where you asked who Link was -- his role in the Red King's dreams -- I considered the Triforce again. In a very symbolic look, Link would represent the King's courage to protect his land. Ganon represents power (and that absolute power corrupts absolutely shtick), and Zelda, the soothing feminine voice of Wisdom who also wishes to protect this precious land, taking position as his daughter.

If you consider the characters to all be a part of the play, and not necessarily isolated from the dream, it makes a kind of sense. Though if the Red King is the dreamer, then Link can't be the dreamer. But we know Link _is_ the dreamer in some instances. So unless we can consider Link a form of the Red King (this has crossed my mind a couple times), then the theory doesn't necessarily work.

But do keep going, 'cause it could. Hope I've added some decent insight.