I for one am very greatful for the spoiler tags, I think infraction punishment is reasonable. Spoilers are spoilers and its not that difficult to remember a tag at the beginning and end of your post.
(I could really care less if someones ENTIRE post consisted of a spoiler tag)
There have been many times, I think one instance is a thread about a music dungeon for an idea and I referenced a room in a dungeon of Master Quest.. as to how it could be pulled off.. Seeing as MQ is a rarer game, I felt the need to announce placing spoilers in my post. Its not fun when you are told how to complete certain aspects of the game, or how a puzzle is solved or any of that stuff, unless you are in a zelda help thread ASKING for that specific information.
When in doubt, just add the tag. it will take you an extra 15 seconds tops.
I see that there is a big concern with infractions and spoilers. I understand that some of you have problems with the new addition to the rules. The reason I added it because I'm worried about members getting mad when they read a spoiler in a post. I see Skyward Sword going to be a first LoZ game for a lot of players. With it being their first LoZ game, they're going to look for walkthroughs and forums for help. Obviously, ZD may be that site for a lot of these new players. After playing Skyward Sword, they may start playing other LoZ games, and I don't want them to read spoilers because it may detour them from our forums. I'm aware that this train of thought may not be best because most of the users on our forums are experience LoZ fans, and what they may see as a non-spoiler could be a spoiler for the new fans. Overall, I believe the rules have to favor our experience users because they've been here longer and contributed a lot. That being said, we won't infract or give warnings for spoilers of older games. However, there is going to be problem with Skyward Sword spoilers. Both new and older gamers will not want spoilers for this game, especially our experience users. I believe if we don't have rules, that someone may spoil the game, and any action taken upon him/her will be seen as unjust because there were no rules. I'm going to say that infractions should be given to any Skyward Sword content that wasn't given a proper warning (either spoiler tags or spoiler title prefix). For the other games, they can be so lenient as the moderator can add a title prefix or encapsulate the the spoiler content. I'm curious on how well does this sound to you guys (the forum members)? Do you think we should have rule and infraction for spoilers, or do you think that we should leave spoilers up to member responsibility? Member responsibility would mean that we trust each user to use spoiler warning on their own. That if they forget or choose not to use them, they won't get an infraction (even if it angers other members).
No, there shouldn't be infractions for it. A rule is fine, but something as simple as a spoiler isn't anything that should warrant an infraction. If a person goes into the Skyward Sword section when it comes out, then it should be expected that there will be spoilers. It's just common sense. However, if one feels that a post should be put into the spoiler tags or have a spoiler prefix, they can simply report the thread/post to a mod with the part they feel needs to be put in spoiler tags and have the mod take care of it. I would hate to see someone get banned just because they've accumulated so many infraction points because they said spoilers.
or do you think that we should leave spoilers up to member responsibility? Member responsibility would mean that we trust each user to use spoiler warning on their own. That if they forget or choose not to use them, they won't get an infraction (even if it angers other members).
I would feel more safe with this. What people count as spoilers can be totally opinionated. This also ties in with the common sense thing. A member who gets angry because he/she saw a spoiler can really only blame himself. Also, most threads now have prefixes with the game title or say "general" with the section title following, which those are pretty hard to miss.
I like member responsibility. However, I'd rather go with a rule, but no infraction.
I was going to ask how to post Spoiler Tags, but now I know you do it by highlighting the text that's a spoiler and clicking on the SP button in "Go Advanced"
I think the infraction should stay, but should only be used in extreme cases. The level of correction should depend on the number of offenses, and the extent and intent of the offense. If someone purposely reveals a huge spoiler that is not necessary to the discussion and has already been warned, they should receive an infraction (or would that be more like "off-topic" or "trolling"?). Otherwise, a quick edit and PM should fix the problem.
Another question I had if we do keep the rule and infraction was should we make a detailed post, like Michael Heide's on the first page, that lays out things like the definition of "spoiler" and the criteria for the different levels of correction, or should we try to make it less intimidating and just leave it up to the individual mods?
Another question I had if we do keep the rule and infraction was should we make a detailed post, like Michael Heide's on the first page, that lays out things like the definition of "spoiler" and the criteria for the different levels of correction, or should we try to make it less intimidating and just leave it up to the individual mods?
*attempts to revive this vital part of the forums' future*
Honestly, I think that we should have a rule and infraction for the spoiler tag. If we don't implement a well defined rule with the consequences, there will be some angry users here on the forums. Rules and consequences, which may appear to be negative, are actually for the safety of the community. If people did things left and right that a good number of people were not happy with, some serious issues can arise. In my humble opinion, I think that there should be a rule implemented for spoilers. But, for a first offense, don't just give them the infraction. Give them a warning of some sort. Then, if they do it again, they can be punished for breaking the rule. Not only will this keep new users happy, it will also give all users the option of either ruining their gaming experience or skipping over that part without being tempted. Spoiler tags are a necessity for new games, and I think that there should be a rule and infraction assigned to them.
An issue has come up regarding OoT and LA material. I think the rule should be enforced for re-releases/ports as well, since those are also likely to bring in new members who may want to avoid spoilers (I only played the original 3 + OoT when they came out on Wii VC).
There's also the possibility, aside from that of members disagreeing with mods on what is a spoiler, of mods disagreeing with each other on the subject. I might as well post the guidelines I wrote for feedback:
I would revise the infraction description as follows, to incorporate my definition of "spoiler" (or one that the community agrees on - feel free to discuss this), and the two games being re-released. If there is any section merging it may have to be revised again to reflect that.
Failure to Warn or Hide Spoilers (2 points): We all enjoy playing new Legend of Zelda games without the storyline/puzzles being ruined by spoilers. Spoilers are any information about a recent or upcoming game's story, characters, puzzles, bosses, items, etc. that is supposed to be revealed at a certain point within the game. We have two methods in which you can warn or hide spoilers. One is using a spoiler prefix with your thread. The other is using our spoiler tags. These tags will hide the text and will not be shown till a button is clicked. This rule will be monitored with Spirit Tracks and newer games - including Ocarina of Time and Link's Awakening, being re-released on the 3DS - and heavily monitored with Skyward Sword, as it will be brand new later this year. The boards that will not applicable to this rules are Game Help and Zelda Theory. [link to a post containing these guidelines:]
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Defining "spoiler"
We will define "spoiler" as any information about a recent* or upcoming** game's story, characters, puzzles, bosses, items, etc. that is supposed to be revealed at a certain point within the game.
*recent: released less than a year ago. (time period subject to change) (At the time this was posted, this applied to no games, except perhaps Spirit Tracks, depending on what the general consensus on "recent" is)
**upcoming: includes new games, re-releases, and ports. The story of a re-released/ported game is the same or very similar to that of the original, so even discussion of the original should be concealed. (At the time this was posted, this applied to Skyward Sword, Ocarina of Time, and Link's Awakening.
By this definition, anything contained on the game's box or in its manual is fair game, as that information is supposed to be read before starting the game anyway. Information from interviews, press releases, trailers, advance copies of the game, etc. should be concealed, as they are only meant to be revealed to those who are looking for spoilers, if at all.
It is safe to assume that information about a game's exposition, including the main character (e.g. Link) and location (e.g. Skyloft), as well as general information about the game itself, such as its title and release date, will appear on the box or in the manual and as such does not have to be concealed, as long as one is careful not to mix it with more sensitive information such as supporting characters, villains, and what is special about the location, e.g.
Zelda, Ganondorf, the fact that the Great Sea conceals Hyrule, respectively.
Using the spoiler prefix
When creating a thread that focuses on or contains spoilers, the "Spoiler" prefix must be selected in the drop-down menu above the thread's title.
You shouldn't have to worry about the thread's non-spoiler subject prompting someone else to post spoilers, as the BBCode spoiler tag exists for that purpose. If you forsee the spoilers contained in these responses becoming overly abundant and/or vital to the discussion, then the spoiler prefix is appropriate.
Make sure the title is spoiler-free, even if using the Spoiler prefix. This is viewable from both the thread list and the main forum page.
Try to make the first paragraph spoiler-free. Even if it is contained in spoiler tags, hovering the cursor over a thread in the thread list - intentionally or not - displays a preview of the first post.
Using the spoiler tag
Describe what the spoiler is about outside the tag so that people are able to make a rational decision about whether they want to view the information. For example:
I don't think that boss was very difficult. All you had to do was
do X
to defeat him.
The spoiler tag is not needed within a thread marked with the Spoiler prefix. The prefix flags the entire thread as containing spoiler, and anyone who looks inside such a thread can be assumed to not be concerned with spoilers.
When in doubt, use the tag. There is no infraction for overuse (unless it becomes a problem, such as abuse).
Enforcement
The rule will not be enforced in the Zelda Theory or Game Help sections. When theorizing, it is important to be willing to consider all available information, so theorists are assumed to want to know everything about a given subject. In the Game Help section, people specifically ask for spoilers pertaining to puzzles, bosses, etc.
Before SS is released, it will take some time for members to get used to the new rule, so we'll be more lenient and helpful.
-A first offense will yield a PM (or a warning for more extreme cases)
-A second offense will yield a warning (or an infraction for more extreme cases)
-A third offense will yield an infraction
After SS is released, we will see many new members coming to talk about it, some of whom may not want to view spoilers. There will also be a lot more spoilers available, so this rule will be enforced slightly more strictly.
-A first offense will yield a warning (or infraction for more extreme cases)
-A second offense will yield an infraction
Moderators are not bound to this guideline and may issue any level of corrective measure as they see fit. Some factors that contribute to their decision include the severity of the information being spoiled (e.g. the story's ending versus the solution to one puzzle), the intent behind revealing the information unconcealed (e.g. if one didn't think it was a spoiler versus if one specifically wanted to ruin the experience for others - extreme cases may receive a more severe infraction such as trolling), and past offenses.
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Any changes? Do you think this makes the rule too rigid? Should we not implement this guideline?
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