Mafia 4: Majora's Mask

[Kybyrian]

Bye Keyshe.

 

[SuperSilly]

I see that Keyshe is acting weird lately, but I don't see anything that makes her look mafia.

Then... Why are you voting for her again?

I do believe, however, that you are the only one acting suspicious right now,

I thought you said you didn't see anything that makes her look like mafia? Please expand on your logic, it can only help the town if you do. (Unless you made a mistake, and do think Keyshe is mafia, in which case, why didn't you say so in the first place?)

Keyshe. Rightyo. Okay. So, the reason I am suspicious of you is like I said before, you have a scummy vibe and outline, you are taking this game very seriously and not playing like you did before and you have turned on the tension, you did not do this when you were a townie in the pervious games and I don't think a townie posts like that. I agree 100% with Jo, and by being careful I ment exactly that. I think not jumping on the bandwagon is staying safe in a way because then if you are wrong people don't get suspicious of you, so now don't read this post wrong. But...

Unvote: Sasuke

Vote: Keyshe

I would like a more detailed explanation from you too... If you honestly feel Keyshe warrants a vote, then you should be doing your best to explain your logic so that others can understand why. (Unless you don't have time, or feel that others shouldn't vote for her, in which case why did you vote for her?)

Regarding Jo's vote for Keyshe, I see several possibilities.

1. Jo is pulling an Atsuma, and they are both mafia. I don't see this as likely, since the mafia have already lost two of their number, and I don't think Jo would make this move.

2. Either one is mafia. In this case, it could be Jo, trying to get rid of a threat, or Keyshe, being hunted down by Jo. I haven't come to a conclusion as to whether or not to eliminate this option. (Though I will try to hurry that up, seeing as there's a deadline now.)

3. Niether one is mafia/anti-town. In this case, Jo is wrong and innocent, and Keyshe is innocent. I don't know whether or not to rule this out yet though I see it as potentially likely.

If Jo was mafia/anti-town, and Keyshe was town, I don't think Jo would so blatantly vote for her, because it would put too much suspicion on her. (Then again, she might be expecting people to assume this... Seeing as most of the currently active players could be seen to assume this, it's a possibility. Well, I'm almost assuming it anyway. Idk if that quite counts? )

If Keyshe was mafia/anti-town OR town and Jo was town, then I can see Jo voting this way. It doesn't say anything regarding Keyshe though, and like I said above, if Jo was anti-town she might be playing to the expectation that she wouldn't blatantly vote like that unless she was town... Hmm...

I'll take a closer look at Keyshe, but right now I don't think she's scum. Also, she is correct in saying that she started to step it up in Mafia 2... That's when (I was a Mafioso in that game) we decided to nightkill her. (I wasn't in mafia 1 or 3) I think most her supposed aggravation could be caused by us mindlessly lynching off Axle the other day, but I'll take another look... Until I can at least try to figure out what everyone's motivation is, I'm not going to vote.

You know... I'm surprised that Jo hasn't said anything in reply to Kybyrian's accusation. (I'm not shocked at her replying to Keyshe, because if Jo is town, then she's probably already made up her mind about Keyshe, and as such wouldn't see the need yet. If she's not town, then that could also be the reason she wouldn't reply yet.) But I would think that Jo would have replied to Kybyrian, townie or otherwise. I can understand putting off the game for important events though, but the deadline is very soon...

 

[Keyshe]

(Please read and think about what I post.)
Alright I'm going to keep this post as short as possible by sticking to key points. Plus I am keeping links to the posts so you all can see what was really said.


I have made it clear from early on that Bay's posts and behavior have had my attention, and I was having trouble trying to figure her out. Town or Mafia, it didn't make sense to me. That and with the fact that there seemed to personal things going on for her, she may have been emotional and would be really playing now. I had hoped to see a difference and we did get it for a little awhile. I was waiting to get a real feel for her. But now with a flip back to her old-self I has no choice but to take it all into account.

I'm going to start with her vote and explanation posts.
While she stress:

"Keyshe on the other hand... has been quite suspicious."

Her vote pretty much came out of nowhere. All while I was investigating Hero and posting in the day, she didn't say much on my behavior as being suspicious, in fact a bit of the opposite... (Here.)
Here they are side by side:

She takes ALL her games seriously... but there is definitely an overwhelming tone of harshness and constant "PO'd" in her posts that hasnt been there in past games.. and this game is no less functional then Game 2 or Game 3 for that matter. So I don't see why she is feels that way...

I kinda get that vibe too, but she's Keyshe... Keyshe always keeps her cool. I think the furstration more stems from people not playing how she deems appropriate, rather then who was killed in the night.

Which I remind you this is the only other thing she said this day about my behavior, in an understanding tone no less, it conflicts. Also I can't be PO'd and calm at the same time. She is being contradictory in another why in that post. She herself said this: (Here the link.)

Nightkills weren't available on Night one, if you bothered to read the opening post. Only NON-LETHAL (non killing) night abilities, such as town, doctor ect..... (granted the doctor wouldn't have much to do) In attempt to give the townies a leg up (since we failed miserably the past two games as townspeople). Obviously we showed we couldn't even handle that.

But that in her post she said this about me and the game?

and this game is no less functional then Game 2 or Game 3 for that matter. So I don't see why she is feels that way...

At the beginning of the game she showed strong frustration at the thought of another lost game, now is giving me a hard time after it's headed that way and I'm looking frustrated? She is all over the place with contradictions.

Here is some older contradictions: Here she clearly see/suspects that the mafia were blocked. Roleblockers at work, but then now backpedals saying that Axle or Ky might be mafia. This is contradicting to her last post, it drops all together what she had said about the roleblocker. (Axle catches her at it.)

She claimed to not lie in the games, but I must point out this post.

Theres a difference between playing aggressively and telling outright lies. Lies are misleading and contribute to confusion. A clear mafia tactic.

This is a key word, she chooses "outright". There are other ways to lie, telling a half-truth for one. Masking the truth is another way, the last two she has done. Bay manipulated information and told half truths blatantly ignoring stated facts about Axles actions-- (from game 3: link 1, link 2, Game 2: link 1 link 2)
The logic of taking out a dangerous person (Townie or Mafia) has been around a long time. She knew this, when I and Axle brought up this fact she ignored and manipulated aggressively away. (Here I'm stressing it again and again)
(Bay places miss-trust on Axle when never asked for it in the first place)

now I didnt say that he was aggressive, I just mentioned that he seemed to be leading the crowd.

This is a half truth (half lie), earlier she said this--

And I thought I was aggressive. Geeze Axle 3 posts in 15 minutes.

There is only one way to read this, Axle is being more aggressive then me guys. She did call him aggressive, she thought she could twist Sasuke's words and get away with it.

Back On day two I had read this post and took it too mean that she could have been saying that she is the cop. So I back off of her to take a closer look at Axle and her, I said to everyone not to judge too quick. Not to save to Jo, but really push for everyone to really look at them both. At the end of the day it was made clear she didn't know anything about Axle. Even though she claimed that she did. I was positive that she couldn't be the Cop now. She would have seen that he had a townie power role. The only other person I think she might have checked out was KY, who she neither pressed very hard or back off of (so she couldn't have.) There is also Sauske who she is only now saying could be innocent (a no go there too). She's been messing with us the whole time about nothing, she had no extra inside information. Her secret code talk was bull, unless she has been saying she was Mafia the whole time with it. The only other thing she has been stressing in her posts other then she had real hard information, is we should kill her and she keep talked about mafia this mafia that...

Taking all this into account and with further looking over her posts, I have come to the conclusion that she in fact done little to no investigation for Mafia. After Axle's death I went to investigate those who voted for him. Specifically those who looked iffy. She just went back to Sasuke. And made small comments on me, or on what I asked. She now is voting for me because she doesn't like my behavior, even though I have only been investigating those who voted for a town; Which she preached that we should do after Linksbro was lynched. Those that she had FOS and voted for are all people who have gone after her first with an FOS or light suspicion, she then jumps on them, hard. Axle (was on her right away win she pulled out of nowhere that we should RVS), Sauske, Kybyrian and now me. Have you see her actually look at anyone else?

The truth is we should have lynched her on day 1, we would still have Axle and Link alive. Link would have improved, in fact he was starting to until Bay came in stressing that only Mafia gain and would kill a townie. The he got worried and paranoid and got worse, but only after she put the idea there. If we don't take her out now I will be dead, either by lynch or the night. Same will go for others soon. She is pulling an incredible power play, lynched Axle and now going for me. She taking out the power players by day.


Vote: Bayside

That really sucked to write. Please, please, read it and use my posts when I'm gone. I worked really hard on them. If you have question to ask on my actions, posts or logic ask away. I'll try to clarify if I can. And use Axle's guide!

 

[Kybyrian]

The Mafia in this game have us by the tails.

We have all of our intelligent towns going after each other.

Nobody's said anything about SuperSilly.

 

[Pocket Asian]

Well, well, well... that was a long read. That's the last time I don't read this thread for 4 days straight @_@

I've caught up on everything, and I think I'll wait until the day of the deadline to come up with any vote.

 

[Keyshe]

The Mafia in this game have us by the tails.

We have all of our intelligent towns going after each other.

Nobody's said anything about SuperSilly.

Actuality Ky... Meego and I both have. Go look at my big Meego post a page or two back, the part about Supersilly will give all the info on that.

 

[Meego]

Yes. There was some suspicion/confusion over SuperSilly but I let it go for now as I am focusing on Keyshe.

EBWODP -Didn't mean to click post button >.>

Okay, so people want a more detalied explanation of why I think Keyshe is mafia. I will try my best! So, her posts are aggressive, I never said that was the reason I suspected her, I said her posts are more aggressive than usual she hasn't played like this before. But imo, just aggressive posts is not a reason to suspect someone, it is a playing style, like Axle said here on page 5 and he was a townie.

But Keyshe is taking this game very very seriously and I realise voting for Axle was stupid, but for some reaqson she thinks me suspicious because I did but others did too, sorry if I keep repeating that but to me that is unfair and I don't see why you picked out me. I also think that she is going for Bay for unreliable reasons. Bay is playing like a townie. Keyshe is also trying to scare me off (I think) and I am not offended but the tone she is playing with is harsh. Harsher than the last games.

 

[Hazel]

This is hectic. But you know who bothers me? Bay. She goes after all the intelligent players, and succeeds to get a bandwagon more discreetly and more effectively than even Axle, who is a great bandwagoner. Also, she seems to have a what I call "I-dont-give-a-damn-attitude". My vote goes to her.
Vote: Bay

 

[dur.i.am]

Another tally of the votes.

Sasuke Uchiha - 2 (The Green, Ninten*).
Keyshe - 3 (Baysiderulez, Meego7, Sasuke Uchiha)
Baysiderulez - 3 (Kybyrian, Keyshe, Hazel)

Yet to Vote - Master Kokiri 9, Pocket Asian, Watch Your 6, SuperSilly, Zack125, ChargewithSword, Link to Present, TreeHuggerPanda, DracoMajora, Hero of Music.

With 18 remaining, it takes 10 to majority lynch.

 

[Pocket Asian]

But Keyshe is taking this game very very seriously and I realise voting for Axle was stupid, but for some reaqson she thinks me suspicious because I did but others did too, sorry if I keep repeating that but to me that is unfair and I don't see why you picked out me. I also think that she is going for Bay for unreliable reasons. Bay is playing like a townie. Keyshe is also trying to scare me off (I think) and I am not offended but the tone she is playing with is harsh. Harsher than the last games.

I seem to recall Keyshe saying that your vote and reasons stuck out more to her than others, so in a sense, it is fair. And there's plenty of reason to suspect Jo. Just go back to the very beginning of this game; it's full of evidence that one can nail Jo with.

I don't think Keyshe is trying to scare you off, more like she's frustrated because she cannot get the answer that she wants from you.

 

[Keyshe]

Your "detalied explanation" isn't very detailed as you left out any quotes of my "pretty devious" posts. I see that you've drop that part out of your suspicion entirely. Also no more Key's-being-careful-not-voting-for-Axle talk, after I debunked that. You've more or less have said that you only have became aware of being suspicious when I put presser on you. And when I didn't back down from you evading my questions, you now are going for a vote. You are avoiding me just as much as Bay has when I confronted her on suspicions of Axle, and the half-false facts she was basing it on.

I have to point out as Meego keeps dodging around it, that no one voted like Meego. She was THE only one to vote for Axle solely on that she was certain Bay was innocent so he must be Mafia. Everyone else had said more reasons then that.


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Now as for this suspicion of my more then normal aggressive play style. Be aware that Bay is using Green's posts as her evidence, so is Meego. Green had been after me right form the start of this day, slipping in two comments on my behavior. Please keep this in mind. He has been just as evasive to my questions, the only time he has respond back to me was (after waiting a very long time) on day two, ignoring most of it too key points, ending it with this...

In conclusion, my bad, but only kinda.

. I never liked that. Also a lot to my post was for Link's benefit, this is something that might have saved him... Back then I was still giving him the benefit of the doubt and try to make sure we didn't rush killing him. (Maybe Green didn't get on and see it, maybe not. Remember Axle thought it was odd Green wasn't answering me either.

Also the main time I was aggressive or could be called PO'd was at the end of Day 2 and the start of Day 3 with Meego (at the start). Notice I toned it down before Green said anything? I came in after being tied up with Secret Santa and see a near majority lynch all on Axle based on Bay's lose bull? Remember Axle saying similar things as I did in his last posts, more pointed and annoyed then I was? And why I'm I suspicious for feeling/thinking the same thing?

It's being taken out of context. Green must not be aware of this rule in mafia

It's a game of lies and deduction. It's brutal and can involve intense scrutiny of your posts, attitude, and general behavior. Keep this in mind if you decide to play that at any time you could have all the other players accusing you of something and you will be expected to defend yourself effectively.

While I have investigated and waited for responses before voting, and gave Meego time to defend herself by not carrying over my vote right away; What has Green, Meego, or Bay done? I've seen Green vote with out investigating or questioning Link, and I'm called close minded?

As for my behavior in early games; Game 1: (I was Town, Vigilante power role. Reclusive at first, power role to protect.)
(See here in Day one, I'm defending Charge on some of the same principles as I did Axle) (More of the same this time for Xin) (Day two, I decides to step it up, getting more aggressive. I didn't vote day 1, now I initiate the vote) (Only other things of not I can find is this and this. Technically Vergo call him out and grilled him. Hanyu has the Godfather.) (Oh look I almost died because I got aggressive and investigated.)

Game 2: (I, Axle and Bay were town. Vanilla townie)
(Day1 Wimpy post) (Day2 stronger but still wimpy. Notice I don't weep over, or accuse for killing a dangerous town?) (D3 You'll see I heavily step it up on Day 3 as I hadn't been around much. Aggressive and irritated, may I say it a little PO'd?) (Aggressive investigation much? Also look, Bay and I start talk as I investigate her. See that she isn't as aggressive or evasive with me here?) (Last but not least, see see I do peruse, like with Meego and Green)

As you can see I have been aggressive, maybe not as much, but don't take it out of it's context. This game is the third game to be turning towards a mafia win. Some luck in the night but the days are going poor, especially going with we lynched Axle. I had a good reason to get concerned. Look at each game, as I have already said I am still new at the Mafia. Each one I am getting more bold and confident. Yes you can't trust me, especially on past behavior townie or not. But don't be all poses to kill me as soon as I put a little presser on. Look at the logic I'm saying first. See some thing wrong with it?, then say it, don't go on behavior alone. That is how Axle got lynched. Also if I ever in these game say tell you to "trust me, don't be suspicious of me" lynch me right away, same for goes for Axle.

 

[Meego]

I'm not dodging, I am just not sure what to put any more. I don't see what you want from me. And Hazel, expand on your vote, I want to know a bit more why you are voting for Jo.

 

[Pocket Asian]

Meego: http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/search.php?searchid=373474
That is a list of all of Baysiderulez's posts in this game. Plenty of things in there can lead to a vote on Jo.

It seems to me that this war between Keyshe and Meego7 is a lot like the war between Axle the Beast and Baysiderulez. Axle was the aggressor in that war, and Keyshe is the aggressor in this one. The Axle Bay war ended with the aggressor being lynched, and he turned out to be town. The Meego Keyshe war is doing the same. The aggressor, Keyshe, is the only one out of this battle with votes.

Everyone who has voted for Keyshe has only used her aggressive behavior as their evidence for voting for her. Meego, originally, your vote was on Sasuke Uchiha, then you changed it to Keyshe. So far, all I got from this is that you're only voting for her through behavior. I think you have fallen into Jo's trap. Explain your change in vote better, please.

 

[David]

I'm not dodging, I am just not sure what to put any more. I don't see what you want from me. And Hazel, expand on your vote, I want to know a bit more why you are voting for Jo.

Well, Keyshe has only asked you to answer the questions that she asked you pages back. She's even posted some links in her post to those questions. If you find one of Keyshe's older posts, you'll probably find the questions that she asked you. And I would also like to know your answers to those questions.

It seems to me that this war between Keyshe and Meego7 is a lot like the war between Axle the Beast and Baysiderulez. Axle was the aggressor in that war, and Keyshe is the aggressor in this one. The Axle Bay war ended with the aggressor being lynched, and he turned out to be town. The Meego Keyshe war is doing the same. The aggressor, Keyshe, is the only one out of this battle with votes.

Is it really a war between Keyshe and Meego? There hasn't been as much debate and posting between Keyshe and Meego like there was with Axle and Jo. Keyshe has mostly only asked Meego to explain herself and to answer her questions. Hardly a war in my eyes.

Everyone who has voted for Keyshe has only used her aggressive behavior as their evidence for voting for her. Meego, originally, your vote was on Sasuke Uchiha, then you changed it to Keyshe. So far, all I got from this is that you're only voting for her through behavior. I think you have fallen into Jo's trap. Explain your change in vote better, please.

Meego, I completely agree with what Pockey said right here. I really want to know why you really voted for Keyshe. Merely stating that behavior is suspicious isn't a super great reason with out evidence. You really only said that she had suspicious behavior. You didn't really state what the behavior was, and you didn't point out any evidence that points to your conclusion. Please respond with a real explanation.

And does anyone else find it odd that Jo completely derailed the conversation about Sasuke and his scumminess? A lot of people were almost certain that Sasuke is scum, and yet that discussion was derailed? Very odd to me.

 

[Baysiderulez]

Aren't links from outside this game, against the rules? I do recall reading that somewhere.

As for completely ignoring kyby's vote... You really have to know the relationship between me and Ky on the forums to understand why I would. To break it down to utter simplicity... He's just trollin me. He had forgotten about this game in its entirety and I told him "you should go make a vote or something" and he went in without reading anything and placed a vote against me... It held no water, and I chuckled a bit. Its kyby for heaven's sake... I didnt realize me not responding to his vote would cause all this commotion.

You guys can still vote for me, It will be interesting to see who the final vote against me is...

As for being inactive the past 2 days... Thursday was my 21st birthday (yay for being legal) I crossed state lines and went gambling and left my computer and ZD at home... lost $5 too, but what the hey... it was fun.