General Zelda Is Exploration Really Gone from Modern Zelda Games?

[Salem]

I've heard the argument that modern Zelda games are too different from classic Zelda games and they don't have exploration anymore, but is it really the case? Do modern Zelda games really not have exploration?

Examples from The Wii titles(although TP was also on GCN)

Twilight Princess

In wolf form, you need to find the tear drops to restore light to Hyrule's various regions and purge it. Doesn't it count as "exploration" to find the tear drops?

Also in sometimes you have to go back to previous areas to get Midna to warp certain object like the bridge and the canon.

Also, the Poe spirits.

Skyward Sword

In Faron Woord, we needed to find the Kikwis and later those musical note thingies for the dragon. If that;s not exploration, then I don't know....

In Eldin Volcano we had to find our equipment at night at one point of the game.......

Skyward Swords has exploration in general, we needed to find our way to the the dungeons in the regions, sure it's very linear, but does than really mean it's not exploration?

So do you think exploration is gone in modern Zelda games? Is it just gimped or made "lesser" in some way? Is it not your idea of exploration?

I noticed a lot of the exploration involves collecting items, that actually ties in when a thread idea I had for a while.

 

[Musicfan]

I've heard the argument that modern Zelda games are too different from classic Zelda games and they don't have exploration anymore, but is it really the case? Do modern Zelda games really not have exploration?

Examples from The Wii titles(although TP was also on GCN)

Twilight Princess

In wolf form, you need to find the tear drops to restore light to Hyrule's various regions and purge it. Doesn't it count as "exploration" to find the tear drops?

Also in sometimes you have to go back to previous areas to get Midna to warp certain object like the bridge and the canon.

Also, the Poe spirits.

Skyward Sword

In Faron Woord, we needed to find the Kikwis and later those musical note thingies for the dragon. If that;s not exploration, then I don't know....

In Eldin Volcano we had to find our equipment at night at one point of the game.......

Skyward Swords has exploration in general, we needed to find our way to the the dungeons in the regions, sure it's very linear, but does than really mean it's not exploration?

So do you think exploration is gone in modern Zelda games? Is it just gimped or made "lesser" in some way? Ir is not your idea of exploration?

I noticed a lot of the exploration involves collecting items, that actually ties in when a thread idea I had for a while.

This is not my idea of exploration. Everything you listed is required and could just follow the map and use dowsing. While early games you could be looking for how to get some place and discover a cave with a weapon item other power up.

 

[Hoff123]

I think people are talking about OPTIONAL exploration. You were forced to collect those tears or kikwis to get forward in the game. Also, as musicfan said, there was dowsing and the map. Exploration should be more about being surprised. "Oh, what is this? A secret cave? (later) Oh damn, I found a heart piece. Nice!"

 

[Vaati101]

Pretty much All Zelda games have exploration in one way or another, even the modern Zelda games do. Exploration isn't really about wondering around in an overworld and randomly finding items on your own, it's more of traveling around an unfamiliar area and learning about it. Every time you step into a province in Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword for the very first time, you are entering an unfamiliar piece of land. First thing you do when you get to said place is look around and get familiar with the place.

Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword may have linear paths in their respective Overworlds, but the bottom line is you are entering an unknown area that you have never set eyes on before and even if you are following a linear path, that still counts as exploration. So yeah Modern Zelda games do have exploration, but it's not as rich as exploration in games like The Legend of Zelda or A Link to the Past.

 

[Salem]

I think people are talking about OPTIONAL exploration. You were forced to collect those tears or kikwis to get forward in the game. Also, as musicfan said, there was dowsing and the map. Exploration should be more about being surprised. "Oh, what is this? A secret cave? (later) Oh damn, I found a heart piece. Nice!"

Are you talking about sidequests? Well TP had the Poes that you had to collect as a wolf, and SS had the Goddess cubes.

 

[DarkestLink]

You can't add or take exploration away from a game. Exploration is meaningless wandering without any particular endpoint in mind. Whether you explore or not is up to you. All modern Zelda has done is stopped forcing it on us for the most part.

 

[Salem]

Exploration is meaningless wandering without any particular endpoint in mind. Whether you explore or not is up to you.

No it's not.

 

[balloonofwar4]

What DarkestLink said is true.

 

[mαrkαsscoρ]

thing is they're set up for you to find them,and by that logic pretty much any adventure type game has exploration,nor matter how narrow or linear
going through a hallway would then count as exploration

 

[DarkestLink]

No it's not.

Well if you want the official definition...

ex·plo·ra·tion
/ˌekspləˈrāSHən/
Noun

1) The action of traveling in or through an unfamiliar area in order to learn about it.
2) Thorough analysis of a subject or theme.

Obviously the 2nd one is unrelated. Personally I view both definitions I've given as the same thing, regardless in the examples you gave, you aren't really exploring...you aren't traveling the land to learn about it...you're looking for something. Whether it be bugs, poes, Kikwis, equipment, etc. The only one I would possibly consider exploration is this

Also in sometimes you have to go back to previous areas to get Midna to warp certain object like the bridge and the canon.

Technically speaking, you do need to learn about the land to know what goes where sometimes or what could be used to fix this problem (shattering the ice for example).

 

[Hanyou]

The Wind Waker is easily one of the richest Zelda games in terms of exploration, so no.

However, the games since then have made exploration a little less rewarding, mostly due to the linearity of the main story. In previous games, you could reach blocked-off areas at will as you collected items. This wasn't really a problem in TWW due to the vastness of the Great Sea, but it has become apparent in games since then. That said, I'm not sure it's had too much of a negative impact, and Skyward Sword, for instance, had the goddess chests to keep things interesting.

 

[JuicieJ]

The thing about The Wind Waker, Hanyou, is that despite the vastness of the Great Sea, the entire first half of the game is an extremely linear path. You also have to factor in how little there actually is out on the Great Sea in-between the islands and platforms, which themselves are very small. There may be a lot of room to roam after the Tower of the Gods, but the exploration is shallow, which is every bit as bad as exploration being limited like it has been since Twilight Princess.

 

[Hanyou]

The thing about The Wind Waker, Hanyou, is that despite the vastness of the Great Sea, the entire first half of the game is an extremely linear path. You also have to factor in how little there actually is out on the Great Sea in-between the islands and platforms, which themselves are very small. There may be a lot of room to roam after the Tower of the Gods, but the exploration is shallow, which is every bit as bad as exploration being limited like it has been since Twilight Princess.

Again, good exploration gives the explorer rewards, and there are plenty of rewards for exploring the various islands and locations in The Wind Waker. That it is not dense like, say, the Oracle games has nothing to do with how rewarding exploration is--after you finish dragon roost, you can explore the sea and you are often rewarded for it.

On the other hand, in Twilight Princess you frequently run into obstacles and exploration just isn't consistently rewarding. In some cases, good rewards for quests are simply too far off, but for the most part, they're just not worth it regardless.

 

[JuicieJ]

There's more to exploration than "being rewarded" for searching around. If that were the case, every Zelda game would have great exploration, even Twilight Princess. Exploration goes beyond that into the realm of depth; how rewarding is the exploration itself? Was there more to it than just going from point A to point B? Did you actually have to use your wits and skills to overcome obstacles and find whatever it was you did?

A Link to the Past is definitive of this to its core. There's always something going on in its overworld, and not only does it always offer the option to explore, but it encourages you to take that option. The Wind Waker basically consists of doing the following: sail along an empty body of water doing virtually nothing for lengthy periods of time, come across obviously-placed solid ground, use an item on something blocking the path, find the treasure, repeat. It's exploration diluted down to its most basic form without any heart or soul. Yeah, TWW in of itself has a lot of heart and soul, greatly due to the visuals, but that doesn't mean its charm translates over to its shallow exploration. I will say that the islands are often well-designed for what they are, but they're nowhere near enough to make up for the overworld's problems.

The Great Sea COULD have offered proper exploration had it been designed better (more danger on the waters, deeper boat mechanics, not having to rely on the wind, significantly larger islands, etc.), but as-is, it's just not up to snuff, neither in the design department nor the exploration department.

 

[Hanyou]

There's more to exploration than "being rewarded" for searching around. If that were the case, every Zelda game would have great exploration, even Twilight Princess. Exploration goes beyond that into the realm of depth; how rewarding is the exploration itself? Was there more to it than just going from point A to point B? Did you actually have to use your wits and skills to overcome obstacles and find whatever it was you did?

A Link to the Past is definitive of this to its core. There's always something going on in its overworld, and not only does it always offer the option to explore, but it encourages you to take that option. The Wind Waker basically consists of doing the following: sail along an empty body of water doing virtually nothing for lengthy periods of time, come across obviously-placed solid ground, use an item on something blocking the path, find the treasure, repeat. It's exploration diluted down to its most basic form without any heart or soul. Yeah, TWW in of itself has a lot of heart and soul, greatly due to the visuals, but that doesn't mean its charm translates over to its shallow exploration. I will say that the islands are often well-designed for what they are, but they're nowhere near enough to make up for the overworld's problems.

The Great Sea COULD have offered proper exploration had it been designed better (more danger on the waters, deeper boat mechanics, not having to rely on the wind, significantly larger islands, etc.), but as-is, it's just not up to snuff, neither in the design department nor the exploration department.

1.) I think puzzles, etc. can aid exploration, but they're not necessary for good exploration. Consider Morrowind, one of the best games ever made in terms of exploration. In this game, there are some areas that are difficult to reach, but for the most part, exploration is just rewarding because of the built-in systems of leveling, the fantastic world design, and the sense of atmosphere.

Okami also places an emphasis on exploration, but for the most part, exploring isn't a puzzle; you are literally rewarded just for walking around. That's fine.

2.) Again, you're confusing density with content. The Wind Waker's world isn't dense. It's an ocean; it doesn't need to be. That said, each island is, and the islands often have the kinds of challenges you said equate to good exploration. There is plenty of content, you just have to look for it. Furthermore, there are areas of the Great Sea--mostly discovered through clues--that are legitimately dangerous, and you're rewarded for finding them. There are treasure maps, monsters, and all sorts of collectibles, ensuring that you can casually pick up good rewards on your travels (even rupees count for something in this game).

3.) I am glad the ocean was calm, and I actually wish there were even fewer dangers. I found it very relaxing, which made exploration better for me. I realize this isn't everyone's taste, but there's nothing inherently bad about it.