Hyrule Warriors HRRRK! OH GOD IT HURTS!

[the8thark]

The Zelda fanbase, I swear...

We need challenging games! It isn't fun unless the game challenges us!

*Hyrule Warriors is released*

The game is too hard! It's not fun anymore! DX

And honestly, this game isn't even that hard. Yes, I am getting stuck. Zant's old school weapon mission (A4) in the TP is giving me a run for my money. But as far as challenging games go (yes, including modern games), this isn't all that bad. I'd say it's average difficulty at most. That said, I probably would be having more fun if they gave us a "less damage" potion or something. An occasional challenge is nice, but overall I (and apparently a lot of people) don't get that much entertainment from a lot of challenges.

This game's real issue, IMO, is leveling though. I feel it'd be much better if they took out levels (weapons are fine) in the next installment. The real "challenge" in this game is knowing you're under leveled but not wanting to go through a grindfest, and going through a mission your character isn't prepared for to avoid grinding.

On the opposite side of the spectrum, your favorite characters end up getting too high leveled. Now even Hero Mode is a breeze, so if you WANT to be challenged, you can't use that character anymore. It'd be much better if we simply didn't have levels, grinding was removed, and every mission was beaten solely on your skill and nothing else.

I do not believe you when you say Hyrule Warriors is not a hard game. The evidence is there in game to disprove you. Many of the stages in adventure mode are very hard. And the game forces you near perfect stages for the weapons and other loot. And hero mode is not a breeze. It's hard as nails. Everything has way too much health there and you take lots of damage.

Ocarina is for many people their favourite Zelda game ever. In part that's because it's not that hard. It's accessible. People can sink their teeth into it and they can slowly get better as the game gets harder and finish it. Hyrule Warriors on the other hand requires massive amounts of grinding to make certain stages manageable. Some stages though, like the do not get hit stages and the kill things at the same time stages and the 1000KO's in 10 minutes stages are just not fun. They are the wrong type of hard. If we did not need an A rank on those stages for the loot sure ok, but because we are forced to ace those stages, it just becomes tedious.

You can liken this game to Zelda 2. Levelling up your character removes some of the challenge but not all of it. Zelda 2 is still a hard game but with a little skill you can finish Zelda 2. Even grinding levels early on in Zelda 2 is not too painful to do if you need to do it. Hyrule Warriors feels the same except grinding levels does not help that much for some levels. Sure you get more damage but those stages without a recommended element supposedly are not affected by armour badges. That and the do not get hit stages just make the game very hard with no leeway for mistakes. A few hits and no more A Rank for you. Very tough indeed.

The grind in this game is fine. The issue here is that all your hearts and healing potions mean nothing in adventure mode to get A Rank. And there is no way to reduce your damage taken in the stages with no recommended elements. Every stage needs a recommended element I think. Even if it's a useless one, like light for a ganondorf only stage. Then we can use an armour badge for it.

I don't understand your complaint about heart pieces after what you said about inflating attack power. Heart Pieces are made even more useful when enemies do more damage. They're only useless when you're going for A-rank.

Well considering the fact that getting A-Rank is what Adventure mode is all about, that makes the heart pieces relatively worthless. They are useful for Hero mode in Free mode and for farming EXP and map loot that does not need A Rank. Bur for any of the good loot in this game. A Rank is required. If you ignore these, you are ignoring the weapons that make the game easier to play by killing things faster.

Also much of the Twilight Princess map hits you very hard. Some of those stages are very hard.

 

[MartDiamond]

If theyd remove the damage count for the A rank or make it the equivalent of number hits on a normal stage, on those stages then they would be far more fun. There's still a challenge to actually not die on those stages, but getting hit does t automatically mean you can't win it anymore.

 

[Locke]

I'd also like to point out that the rewards are higher in the TP map. More enemies = more EXP and Rupees, and enemies drop more materials.

 

[DarkestLink]

I was indeed referring to A ranking maps. Most rewards that are worthwhile are locked behind an A rank, so unless you are a completionist you basically want the weapons and costumes unlocked which are all locked behind maps that are extremely difficult to A rank.

The only A-Rank missions that are all that difficult are in the TP map and the weapons are all cosmetic...

I do not believe you when you say Hyrule Warriors is not a hard game. The evidence is there in game to disprove you. Many of the stages in adventure mode are very hard. And the game forces you near perfect stages for the weapons and other loot. And hero mode is not a breeze. It's hard as nails. Everything has way too much health there and you take lots of damage.

We're Zelda fans. In terms of difficulty our standards are insanely low. You are not "forced" to get perfect. Technically to "beat" the adventure map, you just need to beat the one level that's considered the "Dark Master Level". Now there's extras to get, but here's the funny thing about the game...

Classic Adventure Map: Very easy. Unlocks characters and the vast majority of weapons.

Master Quest Map: Somewhat harder. Still some weapons to unlock, but at least half of these are cosmetic. You also have outfits, but only need a C for this. No characters to unlock.

Twilight Princess Map: Difficulty spikes but...there's only 6 weapons, all cosmetic.

Ocarina is for many people their favourite Zelda game ever. In part that's because it's not that hard. It's accessible.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but the fanbase has been begging for higher difficulty for years. Unless you've never stepped out of Nintendo, HW should be average at most, yet the fanbase still cries out.

 

[the8thark]

I'd also like to point out that the rewards are higher in the TP map. More enemies = more EXP and Rupees, and enemies drop more materials.

Very true. Some of the stages there are nice to farm. Some are like wtf? Seriously Nintendo? They are not even fun to play. Giving these stupidly designed stages 100 materials per captain kill still would not make me play them more then have to. Fun rules all.

We're Zelda fans. In terms of difficulty our standards are insanely low. You are not "forced" to get perfect. Technically to "beat" the adventure map, you just need to beat the one level that's considered the "Dark Master Level". Now there's extras to get, but here's the funny thing about the game...

Classic Adventure Map: Very easy. Unlocks characters and the vast majority of weapons.

Master Quest Map: Somewhat harder. Still some weapons to unlock, but at least half of these are cosmetic. You also have outfits, but only need a C for this. No characters to unlock.

Twilight Princess Map: Difficulty spikes but...there's only 6 weapons, all cosmetic.

Zelda as a series has prided itself on relatively easy but insanely fun. MM and Zelda 2 probably the two main exceptions. And those 2 games saw some of the weakest sales of all Zelda games. Zelda fans want fun and not so much the harder difficulty forced upon them. I agree with you that Hyrule Warriors is no Dark Souls, but it never should be. It should be a relatively easy but fun grind. I'd rather the difficulty be in the grind time and not in the difficulty spikes and requirement of A Rank.

The Classic Map was very hard in parts. I had to level up some of my characters to level 70+ to get some of the Lv3 weapons.
The Master Quest Map is just as hard just more gimmicky with stuff like don't get it.
The Twilight Princess Map spikes just as you say. I agree with you there, some of the stages are easy and some are just unfairly hard.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but the fanbase has been begging for higher difficulty for years. Unless you've never stepped out of Nintendo, HW should be average at most, yet the fanbase still cries out.

I am not disagreeing with you either. I think a minority of the fanbase begged for more difficulty. And when it came in Zelda 2 and MM a lot of people simply didn't buy those games so the sales suffered. Sure some people want more difficulty, but the majority will not pay for it. They would rather easier fun.

 

[AncientPoe]

I'd like to clearly reiterate my original lamentation: I'm not actually having a problem with the difficulty of the levels themselves. They actually do a good job of bringing things back around to that original feel of being both challenged and endangered. Make no mistake, when a single hit from Dividing Fi slices off a row and a half of hearts, the game has my attention. My problem (or rather, what I'm saying I hope doesn't stay a problem) is the idea of having to A Rank every single one of those levels essentially without getting hit. Believe me, I'm actually an advocate for games that require both strategy and skill (which is really why I love this game so much). But I'm not a fan of the idea of the sense of abnegation I derive from playing games being eliminated by such prolonged levels of focus. So again, I actually get the feel that as my characters approach the 150 cap, things will even out.

 

[Codster]

I agree with those saying that having foes deal an excessive amount of damage is a cheap way to up the difficulty. They really should have made an apothecary mixture to up your defense. And they could have made it super expensive, so at least you'd still have to work for it. But at least it would give you a chance to face a challenge without taking C-Rank amounts of damage.

 

[the8thark]

I actually had what I thought was a pretty good solution to the issue.

You give the player a choice at the start of every stage. The player pocks one of the following 3: KO's Time or Health. The one chosen is not required to A Rank. The player would not get rupees for the removed requirement either. So if you are having trouble with one of the 3 requirements you could remove that one. Of cause you'd not remove the time one for the time limited stages. But that's how I'd do it.

If you chose time to remove, then only KO's and health counted for your rank. Same deal for what ever requirement you chose. You'd choose everytime to started a stage. So if you re-do a stage you can choose a different requirement to remove each time.

 

[Codster]

SOLUTION:

Every challenge in the Twilight Map I face that I am unable to complete with an A, I use the ITEM POWERUP in the Apothecary. And when you do that, spam the BOW and the BOMBS. Use the bow to defeat tougher foes and use bombs to clear large hordes and keeps. It sounds simple, because it kind of is. But when all these weapons are permanently charged for the entire battle, you can get by just using the bow and bombs and are able to engage enemies from a safe distance. Even the character bosses (Zant, Zelda, Volga, etc.) can be taken down just using the bow. So, if your struggling to get an A somewhere, give this a try and let me know how it works.

 

[the8thark]

I tried using the potion as the above person mentioned and it works but not as well as I would thought. Spamming the large bomb sure works but I am not sure if the items damage is relative to your character's strength/damage or if the items have a set damage regardless of the character level. I tried this with a Lv80 Darunia on the 1000KO's in 10 minutes stage on the TP map. And I had to use 3-4 big bombs to kill anything. I was on target time wise to beat the stage with in 10 minutes this way but the 3x Agnaroks keept killing me. The upgraded bow for the captains works sure but to get ant decent damage out of it you can't hit them front on, you have to spin around to the back side of them to avoid their block. It's easier to just spam the big bombs at them. Will take a while but if you're not going to A Rank it'll help you get the stages done without dying first.

Also if people think some of the 1st or master quest stages are hard, let me share with you two specific Twilight Princess map stages I have come across:

Damage 3 sets of Enemy heroes at the same time or they heal up with Ganondorf and each hit takes roughly half a full row of hearts. I did the level is 30 minutes just spamming the big bomb at them all and not getting hit much. A Rank is fora heart piece. But forget that, without a future armour potion or something, A Rank will not be done by me for a long time.

Kill 1000 enemies within 10 minutes. Just like the 1st quest stage with 4 major differences

• A lot more enemy heroes appear on this map.
• Instead of 3 Imprisoned, you have 3 Agnarok up your ***
• You take a lot more damage. Getting hit by Agnarok's fire will take a full row of hearts away.
• A Rank is required to move across up and right I believe to the stages beside it. So basically you have to A Rank the stage to progress on the TP map or go the long way around to the stages nest to this one.

As I said above in this post I tried this stage with Darunia for the heart piece and I was on par timewise with the item potion But the Agnarok's kept getting me. The heart piece only needs a C rank. I would try the A Rank with Link. The stage is restricted to Darunia and Link only.

I have to agree Nintendo made some of these stages much to hard to ever be fun.

 

[Codster]

I tried using the potion as the above person mentioned and it works but not as well as I would thought. Spamming the large bomb sure works but I am not sure if the items damage is relative to your character's strength/damage or if the items have a set damage regardless of the character level. I tried this with a Lv80 Darunia on the 1000KO's in 10 minutes stage on the TP map. And I had to use 3-4 big bombs to kill anything. I was on target time wise to beat the stage with in 10 minutes this way but the 3x Agnaroks keept killing me. The upgraded bow for the captains works sure but to get ant decent damage out of it you can't hit them front on, you have to spin around to the back side of them to avoid their block. It's easier to just spam the big bombs at them. Will take a while but if you're not going to A Rank it'll help you get the stages done without dying first.

Also if people think some of the 1st or master quest stages are hard, let me share with you two specific Twilight Princess map stages I have come across:

Damage 3 sets of Enemy heroes at the same time or they heal up with Ganondorf and each hit takes roughly half a full row of hearts. I did the level is 30 minutes just spamming the big bomb at them all and not getting hit much. A Rank is fora heart piece. But forget that, without a future armour potion or something, A Rank will not be done by me for a long time.

Kill 1000 enemies within 10 minutes. Just like the 1st quest stage with 4 major differences

• A lot more enemy heroes appear on this map.
• Instead of 3 Imprisoned, you have 3 Agnarok up your ***
• You take a lot more damage. Getting hit by Agnarok's fire will take a full row of hearts away.
• A Rank is required to move across up and right I believe to the stages beside it. So basically you have to A Rank the stage to progress on the TP map or go the long way around to the stages nest to this one.

As I said above in this post I tried this stage with Darunia for the heart piece and I was on par timewise with the item potion But the Agnarok's kept getting me. The heart piece only needs a C rank. I would try the A Rank with Link. The stage is restricted to Darunia and Link only.

I have to agree Nintendo made some of these stages much to hard to ever be fun.

Strange. I don't recall having much trouble with the Darunia 1,000 KO challenge. I did struggle a little the first time because of Argorok, but you just have to know where they are and avoid them. The Item Power-Up should have helped a little, clearing large hordes with bombs. But I also used Darunia's YYYX move, which does good damage and hits many foes. I also managed to get an A with Link mainly using the spin attack with the Master Sword. Just keep practicing. The Item Power-Up has served me quite well on other challenges.

I'm not sure if this helps much or not, but you can shoot the powered bow a lot faster if you do the "shoot and dodge" trick. Essentially, just shoot and dodge immediately. You can fire much faster doing this than trying to without the dodge, which is annoyingly slow.

Are you talking about the Ganondorf Challenge that's against Dark Lizalfos, Sheik, and Ghirahim? I did it in 6 1/2 minutes and took 0 damage. BOW AND ARROW.

 

[the8thark]

Are you talking about the Ganondorf Challenge that's against Dark Lizalfos, Sheik, and Ghirahim? I did it in 6 1/2 minutes and took 0 damage. BOW AND ARROW.

Yes I am. And how do you hit multiple captains/enemy heroes at the same time with the bow? That's what you have to do for the stage. Please tell us all how you mastered that.

And the bombs help with the 1000KO stages. But I'll try that stage later with Link and the bombs to see if character level affects item damage. But the real issue is to avoid the Agnaroks. They sneak up on you and boom you die. Avoiding one of them sure, easy but avoiding 3 of them gets tough.

I'm not sure if this helps much or not, but you can shoot the powered bow a lot faster if you do the "shoot and dodge" trick. Essentially, just shoot and dodge immediately. You can fire much faster doing this than trying to without the dodge, which is annoyingly slow.

You can shoot without the dodge but that is faster and also very weak cause their guard is up at the front and the shot does very little damage. You have to get round the back or somehow hit them with the bow and them not guard it for the bow to do max damage. Well this was tested on my Lv75 (I think) Ganondorf. That seems way to low to do the TP stages effectively. I think Lv100+ would be better.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[Codster]

Yes I am. And how do you hit multiple captains/enemy heroes at the same time with the bow? That's what you have to do for the stage. Please tell us all how you mastered that.

And the bombs help with the 1000KO stages. But I'll try that stage later with Link and the bombs to see if character level affects item damage. But the real issue is to avoid the Agnaroks. They sneak up on you and boom you die. Avoiding one of them sure, easy but avoiding 3 of them gets tough.


You can shoot without the dodge but that is faster and also very weak cause their guard is up at the front and the shot does very little damage. You have to get round the back or somehow hit them with the bow and them not guard it for the bow to do max damage. Well this was tested on my Lv75 (I think) Ganondorf. That seems way to low to do the TP stages effectively. I think Lv100+ would be better.

Thanks for your reply.

For the Argoroks, I think I was fortunate a few times. One of the Argoroks always seemed to get stuck in a northwest part of the map.

As for the bow, here's my plan of attack:

1. Item Power-Up in Apothecary.

2. Get foes clustered together.

3. Regardless if they're guarding or not, just spam bow and dodge. It may not seem very damaging, but it really adds up quickly if you attack in rapid fire succession.

I actually failed to KO both Sheiks and all Ghirahims simultaneously. But I just kept at it and still got done in under seven minutes with no damage and got the A.

 

[AncientPoe]

So today I took 22 hearts from a singe hit… that was… interesting.

 

[the8thark]

For the Argoroks, I think I was fortunate a few times. One of the Argoroks always seemed to get stuck in a northwest part of the map.

As for the bow, here's my plan of attack:

1. Item Power-Up in Apothecary.

2. Get foes clustered together.

3. Regardless if they're guarding or not, just spam bow and dodge. It may not seem very damaging, but it really adds up quickly if you attack in rapid fire succession.

I actually failed to KO both Sheiks and all Ghirahims simultaneously. But I just kept at it and still got done in under seven minutes with no damage and got the A.

I will try this and get back to you and see how successful this is and thanks.

So today I took 22 hearts from a singe hit… that was… interesting.

Yeah that's pretty insane. That would one hit a non levelled up character one kit KO dead. Yeah tough game but we'll get through it.