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Game Thread Cryptid Mafia

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Ragnarokio

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and by doubt a cop investigation i mean my own

you still get to feel bad about being outplayed by sun if it happens ig
 

Ragnarokio

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not sure i saw that but if he's scum and wins its definitely the cop claim that won him the game

and for what its worth i have seen what you're talking about and its part of why i decided to cop him

i don't think manipulating people is AI for sun but it does make for strong scum play
 
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i don't think manipulating people is AI for sun but it does make for strong scum play

I think that things like this kind of hurt me because I get the impression that people think I play Mafia outside of the game sometimes, when I really don't

well, I guess I won't write too many more words on this
 

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It just comes down to the townie players versus the not so townie looking ones claim wise. My gut is telling me Sun and Rube are Town and if I'm wrong I stand by the fact that their fakeclaims in such a scenario honestly do look better than, like, Zinger's Doctor claim, for example.

If I'm wrong and Sun is Mafia I'm just going to quit Mafia after this game, lol
 
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I didn't plan on lynching sunfan today. It's basically down to Zinger vs Kirino for me. It's just that I don't trust anyone this game and that's a very hard spot to be in with no red flips.
Where I come from, and from where Rag and Rubik come from TBH, when you're the day before Lylo and no red flips and you have no clue who to trust and paranoia is running rampant everywhere, you go with tried and tested policy over gut. Why? because you're in the make it or break it final moments of the game when everything can be won or lost base on a solid or bad read, and so you can't rightly trust your reads.

What does policy say to do here for those of us that don't have cop checks to rely on? It says you DON'T let claimed cops ride to Lylo. The logic behind why you don't isn't just about confirming their targets (because their sanity could be in question), it's because a cop claim is the safest claim for a scum to make that will likely save them from a noose for at least a day or two. And it probably reliably confirms their targets in most setups.

Once it is Lylo, it is too late to be messing around with trusting or not trusting claimed cops. A scum team has every reason to night kill a cop before Lylo, but once you're going into Lylo? They're better off leaving the cop alone because even a living Town Cop who pegs scum in Lylo is likely to hurt town more than help it (because everyone will question their results, and may even deny them).

The only safe play today from the perspective of those of us who aren't claiming cops, given the dangerous situation we were in at Day start, was to go with that tried and tested policy and lynch either Rag or SunFan (but given Rag's targeting of SunFan, and Rag's timing for her claim, Rag was the better choice). Somehow, that perspective has been so twisted by a vigilant SunFun who came out swinging at me and only me like his life depended on it (or like his scumchat decided, suddenly, maybe their plan to bus one of their own was unnecessary and they could push for a flawless victory in Lylo).

If you don't trust yourself, Minish, if you don't trust me or Kiri or SunFan or anybody, then the smart play is to not rely on your gut and go with the tried and tested policy of lynching cops before Lylo. Because the mafia theory behind why you should be doing it is as solid as a rock. Letting a claimed cop ride to Lylo is foolish. Letting a claimed cop who claimed limited cop under duress and then survived a Night Kill ride to Lylo is even more foolish. If you don't want to trust me on it, fine, but trust the mountains of evidence all over the internet. Just google Cops die before Lylo and you will see tons of mafia theory behind why it is smart to lynch them before Lylo. There's a reason Rag started the day saying her own death was the most logical outcome, because even hypothetical scum Rag knows that overcoming the smart logic of Cops die before Lylo is damn near impossible and it would be better for her team if she acquiesced to it.

There's a reason policies become policies, and it is supposed to be exactly for situations like this where your gut doesn't know who to trust and your head doesn't know what to think. The policy is backed by years of mafia theory and it will do the thinking for you through the murky waters of deceit and discord.

But alas, it doesn't look like any of you are willing to listen to reason. And so I will hang despite there being claimed cops and Lylo is tomorrow.

Scum probably wins this game. Oh well.
 
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Addendum: cops die before Lylo is not something you should google search right now (or ever probably), as it gets you non-mafia results related to cop deaths. You get my point.
 

Ragnarokio

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There's a reason Rag started the day saying her own death was the most logical outcome, because even hypothetical scum Rag knows that overcoming the smart logic of Cops die before Lylo is damn near impossible and it would be better for her team if she acquiesced to it.

its very unusual for town to ever be interested in lynching themselves, even as cops. This was one of those cases because my dying would potentially result in three or four players being confirmed in a 7-player LyLo. As scum i might advocate for my own death but it would only be reverse psychology to try to get people to townread me and spare me.

The reason its better to gamble on lynching a yellow today than confirming the cops is because town only has one mislynch left and there's a significant chance that one of our results are wrong as a result of the godfather and tailor potentially existing. This means even in the best case scenario where i die, flip town, and everyone accepts sunfan and his results and lynches the now confirmed scum, there's still a fairly high chance we lose because one of the confirmed scum players is not scum.

Lynching a yellow today comparatively gives a relatively high chance of hitting scum while still potentially putting town into a position where they can chain-lynch "confirmed scum", but in this case if one of our cop reads ends up tainted we don't insta-lose.

Basically its a question of whether you want to risk losing because of a tainted cop read or whether you want to risk losing becuase of a mislynch. (although a mislynch isn't an insta-lose it does put us into a much worse spot than if we were in the same position with the cops confirmed)
 

Ragnarokio

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There's a reason policies become policies, and it is supposed to be exactly for situations like this where your gut doesn't know who to trust and your head doesn't know what to think. The policy is backed by years of mafia theory and it will do the thinking for you through the murky waters of deceit and discord.

i don't think the math checks out this time. Policies are good guidelines but when you're in a specific situation its better to apply the logic with more detail. Lynching cops before lylo is a good rule of thumb, not a good absolute law. Using rational thinking to identify exceptions is important.
 

Ragnarokio

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given the position of whatever yellow townies exist plus minish are somewhat different than the positions of every other town player in the game i think, in terms of what is optimal.
 

Rubik

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We can kill kirino today and then if he flips green kill sun.

I honestly doubt 1x cop is the only investigative role in the game.
 

Ragnarokio

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We can kill kirino today and then if he flips green kill sun.

I honestly doubt 1x cop is the only investigative role in the game.

this loses to any scumteam containing three of me, zinger, FG, storm, and SMS.


though the odds of any given scumteam combination are dissimilar so thats not really a meaningful thing to say
 

Rubik

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I also don't think my role and zinger's roles are likely to coexist either, generally.

Without a disruption or strongman we'd theoretically be able to protect each other every night.
 
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Lynching a yellow today comparatively gives a relatively high chance of hitting scum while still potentially putting town into a position where they can chain-lynch "confirmed scum", but in this case if one of our cop reads ends up tainted we don't insta-lose.
From my perspective, you're all yellow.

The "greenchecked" players aren't greenchecked because that information comes solely from players who could be lying.

The entire scum team could be hiding among the "green" players, meaning that lynching a yellow could be a guaranteed chance of a mislynch. This is not an unlikely scenario, from my perspective.
 
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