Game Thread Bee Movie: Trial by Honey

[Rubik]

It's not a bad plan, it's a pretty common tactic and it wouldn't be so common if it were a bad play-style, but it's also not such a good plan that it's necessary or that someone can decide for the rest of the players whether or not they should participate in doing it.

I'd feel good about someone giving 3 days of results based on their own initiative that may or may not be true on D4 instead of forcing them to make these claims starting at D1. The chaos of it makes it harder for scum to rule players out as NK targets and doesn't force the actual investigative roles to choose between tipping their hands early or lying and leaving inaccurate results when they die.

If you want to leave results, I think it's a good idea to have some players doing it, but it's not a good idea to expect everyone to do so. Some people might want to only give results that implicate scum and some might prefer to not reveal any results so that scum might nk them instead of a real investigative role.

 

[LittleGumball]

it just doesn't sit right with me when town lies. town shouldn't have a reason to lie. how are we supposed to find the real liars (aka scum) when everyone is lying?

 

[Rubik]

It's not really a lie.

"If I'm x then y" is true for any y so long as x is false.

"If pigs fly, then I'm a billionaire" is a true statement.

"If I'm Rubik, then I'm cool" is also a true statement because both x and y are true.

It's only a lie if x is true and y is false.

 

[LittleGumball]

the plan still sux

that's my final word

 

[Rubik]

I'm not advocating for forcing people to do it, but I'm also not against people doing it willingly. It's potentially very useful.

 

[Kirino]

Anyone else find it odd that Stormageden initially disagreed with Moe’s plan, then suddenly “understood” it (his post showing he clearly didn’t) after being voted by Moe, only to then suspect Moe once others posted against it? There’s also the defensive nature of his reaction to being voted against.

Unvote: Fused

Vote: Stormageden

It's not really a lie.

"If I'm x then y" is true for any y so long as x is false.

"If pigs fly, then I'm a billionaire" is a true statement.

"If I'm Rubik, then I'm cool" is also a true statement because both x and y are true.

It's only a lie if x is true and y is false.

I see you too have taken an intro to logic class

 

[Stormageden747]

Anyone else find it odd that Stormageden initially disagreed with Moe’s plan, then suddenly “understood” it (his post showing he clearly didn’t) after being voted by Moe, only to then suspect Moe once others posted against it? There’s also the defensive nature of his reaction to being voted against.

Unvote: Fused

Vote: Stormageden

I actually did misunderstand it at first. It had nothing to do with his vote on me. I disagreed with it at first as I misunderstood to be bad, and though, I do think it is a bad plan even though I now understand it. Also, if I really suspected Moe I would have voted him.
I was just throwing out a possibility, though it was a longshot.

(It looks like RVS is over.)
Unvote

 

[Mido]

Current Vote Tally
LittleGumball - 3 (funnier6, Doc, LittleGumball)
Stormageden747 - 2 (Moe the Moblin, Kirino)
funnier6 - 2 (Rubik, YIGAhim)
Kirino - 1 (fused_shadows)
Lumine - 1 (Pendio)
Mido - 1 (PancakeSamurai)

Yet to Vote: Lumine, Stormageden747, Minish_Link

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to reach majority. The day shall end on Saturday, June 2nd, at 10:00 PM Central Time.

 

[Lumine]

Hello there.

I agree with Rubik's thoughts on the matter. Cop cover (or hypoclaiming, the term I'm more familiar with) isn't necessarily a bad plan and while it has its drawbacks, it's useful in cases wherein PRs get NKed, so that we'll have information out of them. I think the best way to make use of this sort of plan is for those who are willing to share to share, but to those who don't, they don't need to. I think it could potentially make PR hunting more difficult for wolves because they'd need to decide on what camp (those who give reports and those didn't) they'd kill from.

 

[funnier6]

I suggest we keep rolecop and tracker cover in case the roles are actually in the game.

I disagree with this for a multitude of reasons.

Also, since the mafia will be pr hunting we can soft clear players this way

Maybe the mafia are pr hunting. Normally I find that night kill is more influenced against players who are dangerous to them rather then the possibility of them being a power role. Wouldn’t be a priority if I was mafia, that’s for sure.

Either you don't understand what I'm saying, you're intentionally appearing to misunderstand what I say, or you're emboldened by gumball (who thinks I'm just an idiot, so their reaction is expected and disappointing) and are afraid of cop cover.

If you can admit there are alternate possibilities to his answer why do you not explain why you believe it to be one over the other?

People who have never played in a game with cop cover are telling me it's a bad idea
Ok
I'm done

RIP

Do you honestly expect everyone to agree with all your ideas?

I agree that the plan is terrible. There are much easier ways for someone to give info. If they don't want to out themselves they can easily be subtle about softing their info. Plus like Kirino said, mafia has more info than us and could use their knowledge to be able to possibly figure out who's lying.

Minish this post is so short, it doesn’t even have an RVS vote. O-O Are you feeling okay? You’re not scum again are you?!

Though seriously I am surprised that you didn’t share more thoughts than that.

Oh, and personally I find stormas posts more town storma than scum storma, I’m not terribly confident but I’ll probably be against his lynch.

Though he does seem to sheep LG a little he wasn’t of the opposite opinion regarding Moes plan before she posted so I don’t really think that means scum storma like it did in that other game where he changed his mind cause someone said so.

 

[Morbid Minish]

Minish this post is so short, it doesn’t even have an RVS vote. O-O Are you feeling okay? You’re not scum again are you?!

Though seriously I am surprised that you didn’t share more thoughts than that.

Oh, and personally I find stormas posts more town storma than scum storma, I’m not terribly confident but I’ll probably be against his lynch.

Though he does seem to sheep LG a little he wasn’t of the opposite opinion regarding Moes plan before she posted so I don’t really think that means scum storma like it did in that other game where he changed his mind cause someone said so.

I just posted some thoughts real quick when I read through the thread just a bit after I had woken up, so nah wasn't feeling too great at that moment. Lol.

Just hadn't gotten around to posting more thought out thoughts yet. Also, no rvs vote because I feel like people had gotten into serious stuff at that point and I always feel weird coming into the thread later like that and doing an rvs vote then.

Having your input on the Storma situation is good though. Because I had kinda felt like it seemed like something scum Storma had done before, but you make a good point in that he wasn't entirely sheeping this time. He did express his own thoughts on the plan before others did. So I'm not gonna exactly town read him yet, but I'm not as wary of him as I was initially.

Also, another point about the cop cover plan. If people posted results (fake and real) every day, and the cop/tracker did flip how would we know which of their results were real? There could be times when they got no results. I feel like it would be much easier for those roles to just soft info or just outright claim. Not to mention, we're talking about rolecops here. If the real rolecop is posting their info, even with others posting fake info, once they flip scum will have info on who has what role. Basically I don't see how the idea doesn't give mafia more info than just doing things normally. Especially as we have potential protection roles in the game, so the other power roles could be safe if they needed to give info.

 

[Pen]

I'm in the camp that thinks it's a bad idea. Let's say a VT says they're cop and that X is Town. X is actually Mafia, so the Mafia gets a clear advantage of knowing that VT is lying. Similar situations where Mafia gets an advantage can also occur with the tracker claim. Also, having multiple cop/tracker claims daily would only cause confusion. And who's to say a Mafia member won't join in on that fake-claim fest? Yes, I do see where the people in favour of this idea are coming from, but I think that all in all, the plan has potential to harm the Town more than it will help it. I don't think anyone should participate in this plan.

 

[Mikey the Moblin]

At least rvs is over smh
My vote on stormy still seems good, and I'm also slightly suspicious of pendio and rubik.

Since town on zd acts scummy and scum acts towny there's not much more I can do this game if we're not providing cover
I also debated fake claiming tracker to get myself nightkilled but if there's a tracker in this game they would probably counterclaim not realizing it's possible to have more than one.

I'm not going to argue for or against anyone's alignment either

 

[funnier6]

At least rvs is over smh
My vote on stormy still seems good, and I'm also slightly suspicious of pendio and rubik.

Since town on zd acts scummy and scum acts towny there's not much more I can do this game if we're not providing cover
I also debated fake claiming tracker to get myself nightkilled but if there's a tracker in this game they would probably counterclaim not realizing it's possible to have more than one.

I'm not going to argue for or against anyone's alignment either

Are we doing that thing where you don’t answer my questions again?

At least answer that one though so I know whether I’m wasting my time.

If you did actually care about reading any of us correctly you could perhaps learn the playstyles of each instead of being content to “not do much”. Though of course you will likely completely disagree.

 

[Mikey the Moblin]

Me: "this is scummy "
Everyone else: "no it isn't"
*person flips town*
????

No point in trying to read people, just watching.