Zelda and the Ocarina

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

While looking for some other information, I stumbled across this interview, from 2017:

Find out some of Eiji Aonuma’s favourite things from The Legend of Zelda series in our interview!

Rupees or hearts? ReDeads or Floormasters? See what Mr Aonuma thinks!

www.nintendo.co.uk

Within the interview, I spotted some interesting lines:

[Nintendo of Europe]: If you could have any item from The Legend of Zelda series, which would it be and why?

[Eiji Aonuma]: The Ocarina of Time! I’d like to time travel.

NoE: We thought you’d say the Hookshot!

EA: I do love the Hookshot, but if I had the Ocarina of Time I could go back and be young again, and relive my life one more time. (laughs)

A large number of people are stating that Zeldas of the past games had time abilities, based on either the Ocarina of Time Zelda sending Link back in time, or the current (BotW/TotK) Zelda having time abilities. The statements I have highlighted here indicates that the time abilities, in Ocarina of Time, is due to the Ocarina, not a power that Zelda has, in that game.

Of course, I have already indicated that I think this is made clear enough by the time control mechanics in Majora's Mask.

Further more, Zelda, from BotW/TotK, seems to only be able to use her time powers due to the stone.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

The ocarina's ability to travel through time seems pretty inconsistent, only existing when the plot needs it to. It travels through time in Majora's Mask, but is unable to do so when used by Link in its namesake. I wouldn't put too much stake in any established powers. The franchise as a whole doesn't seem worried about maintaining any rules about how its magic works.

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

It travels through time in Majora's Mask, but is unable to do so when used by Link in its namesake.

How so? Both adult Link and child link have access to it. Unless you are referring to the end, where it is in possession of Zelda, who uses it to send Link back. In which case, I still don't see you point.

Though;

The franchise as a whole doesn't seem worried about maintaining any rules about how its magic works.

Or, how time travel works. This point I have to agree with, to a point. I still think it's consistent in universe, and we, as outside observers with a limited view, simply don't have enough information to define all of these rules.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

How so? Both adult Link and child link have access to it. Unless you are referring to the end, where it is in possession of Zelda, who uses it to send Link back. In which case, I still don't see you point.

Though;

Or, how time travel works. This point I have to agree with, to a point. I still think it's consistent in universe, and we, as outside observers with a limited view, simply don't have enough information to define all of these rules.

Let me clarify: it has the ability to travel through time when used by Link in Majora's Mask, but not when used by him in Ocarina of Time. I'm not claiming that the object itself is incapable of going from one place to another. Time travel as a rule is inconsistent in Zelda. Using the Master Sword and the Rod of Ages doesn't result in diverging timelines, but Zelda using the Ocarina of Time does but Link using it doesn't.

That ain't consistent.

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

Let me clarify: it has the ability to travel through time when used by Link in Majora's Mask, but not when used by him in Ocarina of Time. I'm not claiming that the object itself is incapable of going from one place to another.

I think there's more to the device than the song being played.

Time travel as a rule is inconsistent in Zelda

No argument. I'm still going to try making since of the mess.

Using the Master Sword and the Rod of Ages doesn't result in diverging timelines, but Zelda using the Ocarina of Time does but Link using it doesn't.

This is one of the reasons why I think it was one of wishes in the Downfall timeline (LttP or Z2) that actually caused the split.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

This is one of the reasons why I think it was one of wishes in the Downfall timeline (LttP or Z2) that actually caused the split.

Well, you probably aren't going to see anything in game suggesting that timeline's existence, since it was only mentioned in a source book and nowhere else and Nintendo hates revisiting old ideas. Maybe if Nintendo decided for a larger scale remake of those games, but their approach to remakes seems to be adding as little as possible outside of graphical improvements.

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

I really wish they addressed the timeline split more directly, in an official game. It was literally part of Hyrule Wariors, but that's been struck back to non-canon, last I herd. Having a timeline split on paper is all good, but it really doesn't mean much, until we see how it effects the world, in one game we can rest our hats on.

 

[GZ Zelda]

A large number of people are stating that Zeldas of the past games had time abilities, based on either the Ocarina of Time Zelda sending Link back in time, or the current (BotW/TotK) Zelda having time abilities. The statements I have highlighted here indicates that the time abilities, in Ocarina of Time, is due to the Ocarina, not a power that Zelda has, in that game.

Of course, I have already indicated that I think this is made clear enough by the time control mechanics in Majora's Mask.

Further more, Zelda, from BotW/TotK, seems to only be able to use her time powers due to the stone.

It is the Ocarina that causes the time travel, and it can cause itself to de-age and travel back in time. I would actually argue it is Link's possession of the Ocarina of Time that allows him to de-age himself throughout the game: it is the most concentrated form of Timeshift power and Wind magic power acting on the wielder of the Master Sword.

Zelda needs to send the Ocarina back in time for Impa to have one and for Zelda to have one to give to Link in the MM backstory. She sends Link, the Ocarina, and the Triforce of Courage back in time, and locks his Master Sword in the future. As the Sage of Time, and as a member of the Goddess of Time's bloodline, I do think she has latent time powers and high mastery over the Ocarina of Time.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

It is the Ocarina that causes the time travel, and it can cause itself to de-age and travel back in time. I would actually argue it is Link's possession of the Ocarina of Time that allows him to de-age himself throughout the game: it is the most concentrated form of Timeshift power and Wind magic power acting on the wielder of the Master Sword.

Zelda needs to send the Ocarina back in time for Impa to have one and for Zelda to have one to give to Link in the MM backstory. She sends Link, the Ocarina, and the Triforce of Courage back in time, and locks his Master Sword in the future. As the Sage of Time, and as a member of the Goddess of Time's bloodline, I do think she has latent time powers and high mastery over the Ocarina of Time.

I feel like half my posts this month have consisted of me saying something is fanfiction, but this is most definitely fanfiction.

 

[GZ Zelda]

I feel like half my posts this month have consisted of me saying something is fanfiction, but this is most definitely fanfiction.

Huh?

Ocarina can do time travel: true.

The ocarina can send itself back in time: true.

Link having the Ocarina of Time allows him to de-age: not confirmed.

The Ocarina uses Timeshift stone magic: true insofar as it uses time travel magic.
The Ocarina uses Wind magic: true insofar as it uses music to work.

Zelda needs to send the Ocarina of Time into the past at the end of OoT: true.

Link, the Ocarina and the Triforce are all sent back: true.
The Master Sword is not sent back: true.

Zelda is the Sage of Time: not confirmed but common theory.
Hylia is the Goddess of Time: not confirmed but common theory.

Zelda has latent time powers and mastery over time: basically confirmed by TotK.

What's fanfiction?

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

Huh?

Ocarina can do time travel: true.

The ocarina can send itself back in time: true.

Link having the Ocarina of Time allows him to de-age: not confirmed.

The Ocarina uses Timeshift stone magic: true insofar as it uses time travel magic.
The Ocarina uses Wind magic: true insofar as it uses music to work.

Zelda needs to send the Ocarina of Time into the past at the end of OoT: true.

Link, the Ocarina and the Triforce are all sent back: true.
The Master Sword is not sent back: true.

Zelda is the Sage of Time: not confirmed but common theory.
Hylia is the Goddess of Time: not confirmed but common theory.

Zelda has latent time powers and mastery over time: basically confirmed by TotK.

What's fanfiction?

We know that the Ocarina of Time can inconsistently travel through time, but we don't know any iteration of Zelda to have latent timey-wimey powers. It's a nice thought and it'd be a fun thing for the series to bring up, but the developers don't really think about the series on a macro scale. Heck, they barely think about the plot from game to game.

Additionally, I don't recall her being any sort of Sage of Time in OoT. Maybe I'm misremembering.

 

[GZ Zelda]

We know that the Ocarina of Time can inconsistently travel through time., but we don't know any iteration of Zelda to have latent timey-wimey powers. It's a nice thought and it'd be a fun thing for the series to bring up, but the developers don't really think about the series on a macro scale. Heck, they barely think about the plot from game to game.

We know that different people playing different songs at different points do different things, not sure it's inconsistent.

TotK Zelda turns the Secret Stone into the Secret Stone of Time and Zelda into the Sage of Time. If the Sage of Time is some universal sage, she's the Sage of Time in OoT. Her playing Zelda's Lullaby does the same thing as laying the Master Sword to rest; that doesn't happen when Link plays it.

The developers use symbols, characters, names, themes and recur them. They aren't creating continuity, but they are creating mythology.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

We know that different people playing different songs at different points do different things, not sure it's inconsistent.

TotK Zelda turns the Secret Stone into the Secret Stone of Time and Zelda into the Sage of Time. If the Sage of Time is some universal sage, she's the Sage of Time in OoT. Her playing Zelda's Lullaby does the same thing as laying the Master Sword to rest; that doesn't happen when Link plays it.

The developers use symbols, characters, names, themes and recur them. They aren't creating continuity, but they are creating mythology.

But the Zelda of TotK isn't the Zelda of OoT. They might both be the Sage of Uselessness, but they were born thousands of years apart with no consistent powers. The inconsistent aspect of the Ocarina of Time is how it is only selectively able to time travel when played. It works for Zelda at the end of OoT, but not for Link all throughout, and then only warps him back across a three day loop in Majora's Mask.

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

I feel like half my posts this month have consisted of me saying something is fanfiction, but this is most definitely fanfiction.

I see, so when you say something is fanfiction, what you actually mean is that it's not your head-canon. Got it.

We know that the Ocarina of Time can inconsistently travel through time., but we don't know any iteration of Zelda to have latent timey-wimey powers. It's a nice thought and it'd be a fun thing for the series to bring up,...

Additionally, I don't recall her being any sort of Sage of Time in OoT. Maybe I'm misremembering.

I like it when we can agree on something. The closest we get to time powers is premonition, which is Zeldas' most consistant power through the many games, yet neither Sonia or Rauru have any hint of it.

In OoT, Zelda does state that she is the leader of the sages, and she resides closest to the Temple of Time (similar to how other sages reside close to their respective temples. Other than that, to my knowledge, the game doesn't name a sage of time, or designation other than "Leader" for her sage position. No confirmation, but it is a small leap.

It is the Ocarina that causes the time travel, and it can cause itself to de-age and travel back in time. I would actually argue it is Link's possession of the Ocarina of Time that allows him to de-age himself throughout the game: it is the most concentrated form of Timeshift power and Wind magic power acting on the wielder of the Master Sword.

Zelda needs to send the Ocarina back in time for Impa to have one and for Zelda to have one to give to Link in the MM backstory. She sends Link, the Ocarina, and the Triforce of Courage back in time, and locks his Master Sword in the future. As the Sage of Time, and as a member of the Goddess of Time's bloodline, I do think she has latent time powers and high mastery over the Ocarina of Time.

It does seem logical that the Ocarina of Time would be able to de-age itself, or never actually age, but we don't actually see anything like that in game. I also don't think we need Zelda to send Link back with the Ocarina, for the setup of MM. In that time frame, the Ocarina hasn't moved.

If anything, when we see Adult Link get sent back, it's the Master Sword that vanishes (leading to the theory that the WW master Sword is not the original)... So what happens to the receiving time frame's Master Sword? Does it get popped into the void, as the new one comes in? Do they merge because they were always the same item in that place, at that time? I'm trying to think of some more outlandish options, but I think that last one is the most likely.

Zelda has latent time powers and mastery over time: basically confirmed by TotK.

TotK Zelda, as with the few other Zeldas that use time powers, are in possession of an object that grants her those powers. If anything, Zelda is told that anyone that holds a Sacred Stone gets a boost, not "only special people." And, Link being able to have time powers with the Ocarina basically tells us it has more to do with the items, or with being a Hylian. If all Hylians are Hylia's chosen people, it tracks that it is the whole race that has latent time powers. Link, in BotW/TotK is even able to tap into the ability that allows him to slow time when he dodges enemies just right.

 

[Bowsette Plus-Ultra]

I see, so when you say something is fanfiction, what you actually mean is that it's not your head-canon. Got it.


I like it when we can agree on something. The closest we get to time powers is premonition, which is Zeldas' most consistant power through the many games, yet neither Sonia or Rauru have any hint of it.

In OoT, Zelda does state that she is the leader of the sages, and she resides closest to the Temple of Time (similar to how other sages reside close to their respective temples. Other than that, to my knowledge, the game doesn't name a sage of time, or designation other than "Leader" for her sage position. No confirmation, but it is a small leap.


It does seem logical that the Ocarina of Time would be able to de-age itself, or never actually age, but we don't actually see anything like that in game. I also don't think we need Zelda to send Link back with the Ocarina, for the setup of MM. In that time frame, the Ocarina hasn't moved.

If anything, when we see Adult Link get sent back, it's the Master Sword that vanishes (leading to the theory that the WW master Sword is not the original)... So what happens to the receiving time frame's Master Sword? Does it get popped into the void, as the new one comes in? Do they merge because they were always the same item in that place, at that time? I'm trying to think of some more outlandish options, but I think that last one is the most likely.


TotK Zelda, as with the few other Zeldas that use time powers, are in possession of an object that grants her those powers. If anything, Zelda is told that anyone that holds a Sacred Stone gets a boost, not "only special people." And, Link being able to have time powers with the Ocarina basically tells us it has more to do with the items, or with being a Hylian. If all Hylians are Hylia's chosen people, it tracks that it is the whole race that has latent time powers. Link, in BotW/TotK is even able to tap into the ability that allows him to slow time when he dodges enemies just right.

Well, head-canon is fanfiction. I have my head-canon for unexplained elements, but that doesn't make it any less fanfiction.