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The State of Zelda's Canon

Do you believe the Zelda timeline is canon?

  • Yes

    Votes: 8 53.3%
  • Indifferent

    Votes: 4 26.7%
  • No

    Votes: 3 20.0%

  • Total voters
    15

el :BeoWolf:

When all else fails use fire
Joined
Feb 5, 2016
Gender
Centaleon
It'll have been nine years after Nintendo released Skyward Sword and with it, Hyrule Historia. Almost a decade! A book that seemingly ended the debate on the Zelda timeline. However after taking a hard look at its timeline it's really no better than any fan timeline. Plus the addition of the Zelda Encyclopedia and its apparent retcons to the timeline really show the timeline is just a tacked on piece of fan service. But that goes without saying and I'm going off.

ZD has changed a lot over its history and even in recent times we've seen plenty of fresh faces so I'm curious.

What is your own take on the timeline?
Do you follow the Historia/Encyclopedia canon? Do you have your own timeline? Or do you just have no interest in connecting the games?
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2020
Location
In the future playing BotW 2
Gender
Mobian
I'm gonna go and make my own time line later, but from what I've seen and others have said its decently accurate so I'll consider it canon, for no anyway.

EDIT: if anything I would switch some games around.
 

mαrkαsscoρ

Mr. SidleInYourDMs
ZD Champion
Joined
May 5, 2012
Location
American Wasteland
However after taking a hard look at its timeline it's really no better than any fan timeline.
no, fan timelines are better....my timeline
but really though, the timeline I made about 10 years ago too is still the one I feel makes a lot of sense, at the least though I firmly believe that the placements of certain pockets of games are undisputed, such as OoT branching off to MM /TP and WW/the DS games respectively, and of course SS being at the very beginning, most of the rest of the games you can go back and forth on where they should go

I always remembered when axel called the 3rd one the cop out timeline, b/c the whole explanation for it was really just nintendo choosing not to think about it
 
To me, the Zelda timeline is canon. It was released in official merchandise of which Nintendo approved...

But I also think it sucks and I've seen better timelines from fans. Ones that didn't need to split the timeline into three branches.

I was always fine with the split after OoT, but when the HH released and had a third split I wasn't too impressed. It just felt tacked on.

It also made most of the classic 2D games technically an offshoot of child murder. Who says Nintendo isn't dark?

However, all the care in the world that I had and the use of it being official canon to help in theories for future games is all now completely irrelevant thanks to BotW.

BotW, to me, completely casts aside the timeline.

The Creating a Champion book shows the timeline as seen in the Hyrule Encyclopedia and calls the entire thing 'the era of myth'.

Not only were we dealing with vague legends to begin with, now the whole of the established timeline is referred to as a myth.

The timeline now, in canon (in BotW), just feels like old wives tales or the musings of mad scholars trying put vague remnants of history together with very little proof.

The whole thing now reminds me of the Legend of King Arthur. Someone who probably existed in some form, which history could point to (as it could many other things depending on how you interpret it), but who definitely didn't pull a magical sword from a stone and fight wars with wizard sidekicks.


To me, as it stands, Zelda's established timeline canon before BotW, is just something Aonuma now can cherry pick from going forward whenever he needs ideas.

And because everything is myth, nothing needs to be the same, like the eye colour of the Gerudo and Sheikah, which means it'll be borderline impossible to create any worthwhile theories on games going forward based on the timeline.

The only thing we can use with any certainty moving forward is what happened in BotW and inly BotW is Aonuma decides to keep making games that follow it on.

Otherwise, outside of what BotW establishes, the Zelda canon to me is myth.
 
Last edited:

Spiritual Mask Salesman

CHIMer Dragonborn
Staff member
Comm. Coordinator
Site Staff
I do think the timeline is canon, though I prefer the Hyrule Historia version because the change to Link's Awakening placement in Zelda Encyclopedia makes no sense. Enough games were made as either sequels or prequels for there to have always been a loose basis for a timeline, the exceptions to this only being Four Swords Adventures and Tri Force Heroes. Also Minish Cap and Four Swords, since they don't expand on anything of note within the main Zelda canon, still, it was always figured they came before Ocarina of Time, and that theorization turned out to be correct. The general framework theorists rationalized out about the timeline was true; though in hindsight, the only hinderence was adhering to the singular split school of thought, I don't think anyone pondered the possibility of there being a second split, making a total of 2 diverging timelines, plus the original one.

I know a lot of people criticize Breath of the Wild for not taking a deep dive into Zelda lore, however, finding ruins of locations from previous games, ruins that are beyond a doubt those locations, was pretty awesome. It's also better than what past Zelda games have done - finding those ruins would make things feel a bit more real, like that location really does exist, and it's confirmation that maybe the events of the game where the ruins are from really happened too.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Location
Michigan
It's not that I am indifferent to the timeline, I actively dislike that it exists. Anyone who thinks that someone was keeping a timeline in their head for this series from the start is fooling themselves. The creator of the series is an ardent promulgator of mechanics and gameplay over story, and has resisted or outright stymied attempts at bringing more story into his games in the past. When such games do get greenlit underneath him, he takes steps to undermine them, like giving Majora's Mask only a year to be produced (in a move some speculate was designed to sink the project), or saying in interviews that emphasis on story is or was a mistake. So he never would have been designing those early games with a mind to an overarching narrative. A dependence and desire to cling to continuity is a recent cultural trend deriving from the popularity and dominance of continuity driven media like comic books/movies, young adult series, and yearly release games. These artifacts did not exist in the 80's. These development mindsets did not exist in the 80's. No one was paying attention because these elements were far less important than gameplay in selling and making games. Even when devs put a lot of stock in a game's narrative, that attention was largely in the story of a single game in a series, with no effort to connect games to each other. So all the story-driven RPGs and whatnot of the era are wholly contained stories per game.

The 90's saw the emergence of the internet, and with it, the ability of fans to congregate and share ideas. This spawned the concept of lore theorizing as a widespread idea, and fed the growth of the concept of continuity being important to a series and to its fans. Though these things had always existed to a small degree, they were largely confined to niche groups of culture, and those conversations tended to be locally hosted. They were not a driving force of video game development or consumption. So yes, I agree with your statement about the Hyrule Hystoria (and I personally extend this sentiment to the Timeline itself) as "a tacked on piece of fan service".

I know I'm probably gonna get some rebuttals for saying this, so I want to make the qualifier on my opinion perfectly clear. I am not against people debating a timeline. I'm not against having your theories. If that's how you enjoy Zelda? Go. Nuts. By all means. Have a blast. What I hate is Nintendo trying to push the concept of a united timeline, and people insisting that there was one from the start. And then they turn around and get angry that Nintendo isn't following their precious timeline, or they want to spackle in every little gap with a game that addresses those tiny little areas. There used to be a member who fervently argued for a game that fills in the spot between OoT and Wind Waker for godsakes. Well, maybe it is perhaps a bit unfair to use such a toxicly overzealous individual as my example. But my point still stands. Insisting that Nintendo use their own self-imposed timeline, or one invented by the internet, to write itself into corners is ludicrous. Wind Waker was famously designed proceeding the whims of a single character designer who sketched a Moblin. Then other team members hopped on board, and soon they were happily designing all sorts of delightful characters, and inventing for themselves the sort of world those people and monsters would inhabit. That seed of creativity is what birthed Wind Waker, and even though it would later go on to be beleaguered by development issues, it's still a wonderful and enjoyable game whose aesthetic has withstood the test of time. I can't imagine how that game would have turned out if someone had come to them and said "here, now make one that is set 500 years after Ocarina, because Corporate said so. Gotta fill in that history." Any insistence that should happen is idiotic.
 

Spiritual Mask Salesman

CHIMer Dragonborn
Staff member
Comm. Coordinator
Site Staff
It's not that I am indifferent to the timeline, I actively dislike that it exists. Anyone who thinks that someone was keeping a timeline in their head for this series from the start is fooling themselves. The creator of the series is an ardent promulgator of mechanics and gameplay over story, and has resisted or outright stymied attempts at bringing more story into his games in the past. When such games do get greenlit underneath him, he takes steps to undermine them, like giving Majora's Mask only a year to be produced (in a move some speculate was designed to sink the project), or saying in interviews that emphasis on story is or was a mistake. So he never would have been designing those early games with a mind to an overarching narrative. A dependence and desire to cling to continuity is a recent cultural trend deriving from the popularity and dominance of continuity driven media like comic books/movies, young adult series, and yearly release games. These artifacts did not exist in the 80's. These development mindsets did not exist in the 80's. No one was paying attention because these elements were far less important than gameplay in selling and making games. Even when devs put a lot of stock in a game's narrative, that attention was largely in the story of a single game in a series, with no effort to connect games to each other. So all the story-driven RPGs and whatnot of the era are wholly contained stories per game.

The 90's saw the emergence of the internet, and with it, the ability of fans to congregate and share ideas. This spawned the concept of lore theorizing as a widespread idea, and fed the growth of the concept of continuity being important to a series and to its fans. Though these things had always existed to a small degree, they were largely confined to niche groups of culture, and those conversations tended to be locally hosted. They were not a driving force of video game development or consumption. So yes, I agree with your statement about the Hyrule Hystoria (and I personally extend this sentiment to the Timeline itself) as "a tacked on piece of fan service".

I know I'm probably gonna get some rebuttals for saying this, so I want to make the qualifier on my opinion perfectly clear. I am not against people debating a timeline. I'm not against having your theories. If that's how you enjoy Zelda? Go. Nuts. By all means. Have a blast. What I hate is Nintendo trying to push the concept of a united timeline, and people insisting that there was one from the start. And then they turn around and get angry that Nintendo isn't following their precious timeline, or they want to spackle in every little gap with a game that addresses those tiny little areas. There used to be a member who fervently argued for a game that fills in the spot between OoT and Wind Waker for godsakes. Well, maybe it is perhaps a bit unfair to use such a toxicly overzealous individual as my example. But my point still stands. Insisting that Nintendo use their own self-imposed timeline, or one invented by the internet, to write itself into corners is ludicrous. Wind Waker was famously designed proceeding the whims of a single character designer who sketched a Moblin. Then other team members hopped on board, and soon they were happily designing all sorts of delightful characters, and inventing for themselves the sort of world those people and monsters would inhabit. That seed of creativity is what birthed Wind Waker, and even though it would later go on to be beleaguered by development issues, it's still a wonderful and enjoyable game whose aesthetic has withstood the test of time. I can't imagine how that game would have turned out if someone had come to them and said "here, now make one that is set 500 years after Ocarina, because Corporate said so. Gotta fill in that history." Any insistence that should happen is idiotic.
I think most people know there wasn't one from the get go, but I do think that by time Ocarina of Time released they started to have a general idea of how to place some games together, because a lot of the games afterwards were sequels to Ocarina of Time, and in turn those games would end up getting their own sequels. I think it's pretty hard to dispute:

SS>OoT>TWW>PH>ST
SS>OoT>MM>TP

And even though it is controversial still, Ocarina of Time was supposed to be a prequel to A Link to the Past showing us Ganondorf and how he transformed into Ganon, so:

SS>OoT>ALttP>LA

And of course:

TLoZ>Zelda II: AoL

These chronologies were pretty obvious even before Hyrule Historia. It wasn't until The Wind Waker that things got weird with the flow of the games. My point is, of course there wasn't a plan from the start, but because enough games were made to be prequels or sequels to an already established one, eventually a clear framework for some games was created. I feel like to deny this is nonsensical.
 

Jirohnagi

Braava Braava
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Location
Soul Sanctum
Gender
Geosexual
To me, the Zelda timeline is canon. It was released in official merchandise of which Nintendo approved...

But I also think it sucks and I've seen better timelines from fans. Ones that didn't need to split the timeline into three branches.

I was always fine with the split after OoT, but when the HH released and had a third split I wasn't too impressed. It just felt tacked on.

It also made most of the classic 2D games technically an offshoot of child murder. Who says Nintendo isn't dark?

However, all the care in the world that I had and the use of it being official canon to help in theories for future games is all now completely irrelevant thanks to BotW.

BotW, to me, completely casts aside the timeline.

The Creating a Champion book shows the timeline as seen in the Hyrule Encyclopedia and calls the entire thing 'the era of myth'.

Not only were we dealing with vague legends to begin with, now the whole of the established timeline is referred to as a myth.

The timeline now, in canon (in BotW), just feels like old wives tales or the musings of mad scholars trying put vague remnants of history together with very little proof.

The whole thing now reminds me of the Legend of King Arthur. Someone who probably existed in some form, which history could point to (as it could many other things depending on how you interpret it), but who definitely didn't pull a magical sword from a stone and fight wars with wizard sidekicks.


To me, as it stands, Zelda's established timeline canon before BotW, is just something Aonuma now can cherry pick from going forward whenever he needs ideas.

And because everything is myth, nothing needs to be the same, like the eye colour of the Gerudo and Sheikah, which means it'll be borderline impossible to create any worthwhile theories on games going forward based on the timeline.

The only thing we can use with any certainty moving forward is what happened in BotW and inly BotW is Aonuma decides to keep making games that follow it on.

Otherwise, outside of what BotW establishes, the Zelda canon to me is myth.
One might even say they're..... LEGENDS.

:suspicious:
Legends from an era of myth the most trustworthy form of historical accuracy.

This is the joy of Oral Tradition, things that aren't written down until far too late but are instead handed down word of mouth for centuries, literally chinese whispers things have become so muddled with the retelling new attributes are given or great attributes removed, it explains why link is so different in each game and why each villain seems to be overly similar.

The reason i do like the current timeline (and it IS canon) is because it actually allows for the possibility of defeat, they've acknowledge OOT was a Tipping point where the balance was in sway and it went in Ganon's favour, yes i know people will say, "oh but this means every lost should count" but not every loss was a tipping point a eponymous struggle for the fate of the world, and most times link would have a fairy. For even those who'd state that EVERY fight with Ganondorf/Ganon/Vaati/Majora to which i'd agree but with the addendum that in most fights it's not really the worlds tipping point but just Hyrules or in the case of Vaati and Majora it's just flat out no history left for any continuation. For the most part we still have a history but we honestly don't know from which side of the point bar OOT's Split is the history tipped, mostly again due to this issue of oral tradition. For all we know it could be just the one villain from OOT who's lived on and slain each contender sending history down a dark spiral or the reverse could be true. The only one that gives us insight into the choices is OOT.
 

mαrkαsscoρ

Mr. SidleInYourDMs
ZD Champion
Joined
May 5, 2012
Location
American Wasteland
These chronologies were pretty obvious even before Hyrule Historia. It wasn't until The Wind Waker that things got weird with the flow of the games. My point is, of course there wasn't a plan from the start, but because enough games were made to be prequels or sequels to an already established one, eventually a clear framework for some games was created. I feel like to deny this is nonsensical.
I'd even say Majora's Mask made things a bit rocky, b/c prior the timeline was simply OoT>LttP>LA>LoZ>AoL, and like you mentioned OoT was showing certain backstory elements for Past, but then we get MM where it shows us Young Link after having gone back in time from the future he left behind, so....did the split already happen? B/c if the events were undone then LttP couldn't follow up MM unless I'm missing something. And of course Wind Waker added it's own continuity, so the question was always where did the 2d games fit? Especially at this time where it feels like they were in some weird limbo on their own since they couldn't follow up either MM or WW
 

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