The Dark Tribe

[ChargewithSword]

The Dark Tribe

The Dark Tribe.... it is a force that has been prevalent in multiple games in the Zelda series. They have spread an influence that has been felt in every game. They are also the greatest mystery surrounding the Zelda series. Who were these people? Who works for them? What did they want (obvious)? Many questions that people fail to ask. I on the other hand am compiling information for theories and things like that to connect the Dark Tribe and understand them better. Many points of my theories will be wrong, but that is why you have to correct me (once I run out of counter attacks).
This little thread shall compile information we know about the Dark Tribe into different subjects. The First subject shall be:

Members
As of recently I have uncovered many theories for there being multiple members of the Dark Tribe. The first one is Agahnim. This idea is supposedly supported by this quote:

"After all, the legendary Hero cannot defeat us, the tribe of evil, when we are armed with the Power of Gold."- Agahnim

Another piece of evidence that is suspected for Agahnim is his skin color which is something that seems to be common among theorized members of the Dark Tribe.

There was Veran who not only was a Sorceress of Shadows but she also had the same blue skin that Agahnim does. Coincidence; at this point, yes it is.

Then come the Zuna, blue skinned people who are descendants to the builders of the Pyramid that housed the Trident of Power. This very same trident is a weapon of Darkness that Ganon uses. Not to mention, that in the games he used the trident, he always has a theorized Tribesman with him.

The Trident itself was made for destruction and was seemingly housed in the Pyramid of Power for one reason: to wait for the right person to wield it, namely, Ganondorf. The inscription even seems to be begging for destruction so we know that the Trident wasn't there for protection:

"... ... ...
Seek...you...the world?
Seek you...power?

Does your...soul...despise
peace and...thirst for...
more?

Does your soul...cry...
for...destruction and...
conquest?

We...grant you...power to
...ruin...the world. The
power of...darkness.

Evil...spirit of
magic trident.

You are...the...
King of Darkness."

We can assume that blue is a common skin for theorized tribes folk. However if you want concrete, then you can't get any more concrete than the Twili themselves. They basically say that they are descendants of the Dark Tribe so we know that already. One interesting feature is their blue skin.

The only difference between the Twili's skin and the other theorized tribes folk is that their skin is also black as well. I think I can explain this; if you consider where the Dark Tribe was banished to you can see that they would have to adapt. This is a common evolution trait; you adapt to your environments and eventually your bodies change. That could've happened to the Dark Tibe that was banished to the Twilight Realm, they were there for so long that they had to evolve while keeping part of their blue skin.


So I have come to the conclusion that these people are all related to the Dark Tribe in some way, and since some of them are affiliates with Ganon we can guess that the Dark Tribe were also going to follow he who held their Trident.

While skin seems like a weak thing to base on, you cannot deny the similarities and the fact that four times in multiple games is too much of a coincidence.

You can start the debate with me now if you want, but don't forget to join us next week folks for the other theories I have prepared. I'm taking this nice and slow because I don't want too much to debate on my hands.

 

[jbkarate9]

Agreed. This is the first theory I have seen on these people that actually makes sense! Good job! I cant even deebate because this is a perfect theory!

 

[ChargewithSword]

Dark World- How it has nothing to do with the Dark Tribe​

I have encountered many hurdles in my theories and one of them is the Dark World. What is the Dark World really and how does it connect to the Dark Tribe? One thing I would like to quickly make clear is that I do not believe that the Twilight Realm is the Dark World or vice versa. Instead I believe that the Dark World is its own separate world just like the twilight realm, but there is a difference between the two. Darkness and Twilight are not the same thing despite what the characters of Twilight Princess often state.

"Twilight - the soft, diffused light from the sky when the sun is below the horizon, either from daybreak to sunrise or, more commonly, from sunset to nightfall."

Instead of being some dark world of evil on the other end of the coin, the Twilight Realm is instead the border edge of the coin that only bears bits and pieces of darkness and light. So that brings up the question: What is the Dark World? At least that question is coming up for me; the majority of you believe that the Dark World is the Sacred Realm, which it has been for multple games (including the famous A Link to the Past) but I think I have an answer to this.

Do you remember how the Twilight Realm is in Twilight Princess? It is a blend of light and Darkness that seeps into Hyrule (or the Light World in a sense) eventually corrupting the light. It is then that the Light World becomes the Twilight Realm as well. So what is to say that the same does not apply to the situation in OOT and Alttp?

In A link to the past, you purify the darkness and bring back light to the Sacred Realm, but who is to say that the darkness just vanished. What if, the darkness instead retreated to its home world? That is right, I am stating that there is a Dark World that is not the Sacred Realm one, but instead a world of its own. Now I do have evidence that can back up my claim here. One piece of evidence comes from a quote in Oracle of Seasons, take it away Onox:

"Gwah hah hah! I was summoned from the Dark Realm by Twinrova! See my true form! Feel the might of a dark dragon!" —Onox

Now, why is this quote important you may ask? It's important because we have to realize when this game takes place, and what are the conditions for the Sacred Realm to be the Dark World. Now, where this game takes place on the timeline is debatable, but I am not grasping at those strings. What I am grasping at is the fact that this game is after one of the many Ganons have been killed and thus the Triforce has not been corrupted. This is also proven by both games' intros which show the Triforce in a castle. This corruption is the one reason the sacred realm has become corrupted into the Dark World and nothing else. That corruption is absent in the Oracle games however making one wonder what this so called "Dark Realm" is?

In Four Swords Adventures we can see that the "Dark World" is a place of shadows that cannot be seen in the light world but the effects of it are sometimes felt. The thing is, the Sacred Realm hasn't even been touched by Ganon in this game, and there is no evidence to state that he has gone to the sacred realm. There is the proof that the Dark World is in fact a world of its own.

Now I bet your thinking that I've buried myself by saying "the Dark World is a place of shadows that cannot be seen in the light world but the effects of it are sometimes felt." However I can explain that. I will compare the Dark World situation with the Twilight Realm situation again. Instead of creating the Dark world, Ganon simply spread out its effects using the ToP just like the Twilight Realm and how it spread into Hyrule. It is a simple theory that works.

So what does this have to do with the Dark Tribe exactly? It proves that the Dark Tribe were never transported to the Dark world and it helps solidify my theory of the Dark Mirror being the Mirror of Twilight. The Dark World is also excluded from my theory as well, until I find something that shows the Dark Tribe was involved in the Dark World.

**

I expected a lot more opposition, oh well. Since you guys didn't oppose me as much with the last theory I'll bring up this next one.

 

[Locke]

This is a bit above my level of expertise, but I guess I'll take a stab at it.

The king of Hyrule,
after counsel with his sages, ordered an investigation of the
Imprisoned Dark World (as the Golden land had come to be known)

The Golden land of the Triforce has
becoe a Dark World corrupted by
Ganon's evil wishes.

The place where you now stand was the Golden Land, but evil power
turned it into the Dark World.

Ganon's wish was to conquer the world. That wish changed the Golden Land to the
Dark World.

I don't know how you can get around those quotes, unless the Golden Land also isn't the Sacred Realm, and there are just as many quotes against that idea.

just a minor point while I'm thinking about it: I don't think the names of the realms really define what they are. Rather, the developers created a realm and gave it the most fitting name they could think of.
BTW I also agree that the Twilight Realm =/= Dark World. (though doesn't that go against your Dark Mirror = Mirror of Twilight theory?)

other than that...I can't really say much. I remember there was a big debate on ZI, and I think they were saying that the FSA DW was different from the LttP DW and OoX's was someone else's makai and stuff, but most of it went overy my head. You might get more intelligent feedback if you posted this on ZI.

 

[ChargewithSword]

This is a bit above my level of expertise, but I guess I'll take a stab at it.





I don't know how you can get around those quotes, unless the Golden Land also isn't the Sacred Realm, and there are just as many quotes against that idea.

just a minor point while I'm thinking about it: I don't think the names of the realms really define what they are. Rather, the developers created a realm and gave it the most fitting name they could think of.
BTW I also agree that the Twilight Realm =/= Dark World. (though doesn't that go against your Dark Mirror = Mirror of Twilight theory?)

other than that...I can't really say much. I remember there was a big debate on ZI, and I think they were saying that the FSA DW was different from the LttP DW and OoX's was someone else's makai and stuff, but most of it went overy my head. You might get more intelligent feedback if you posted this on ZI.

As a matter of fact, you helped me prove my point. The quote specifically says:

The Golden land of the Triforce has
become a Dark World corrupted by
Ganon's evil wishes.

He was only able to make that wish using the wish granting power of the triforce which he never had in the other two games where the Dark World was referenced (OOX, FSA). The only thing he had in those games was the Trident which only amplified his dark powers, but didn't grant any wishes.

(The Dark Mirror = Twilight Mirror was a mistake. This was actually my third theory. The Dark Mirror thing was my second so I made a mistake. I will discuss that when I post the theory.)

 

[Skull_Kid]

Yes, you all should know, as it is stated in the game(in both versions, to be more precise), The Dark World IS the Golden Land, and was warped into a decrepit version of Hyrule when Ganon wished for Hyrule upon the Triforce

 

[ChargewithSword]

Yes, you all should know, as it is stated in the game(in both versions, to be more precise), The Dark World IS the Golden Land, and was warped into a decrepit version of Hyrule when Ganon wished for Hyrule upon the Triforce

I already knew that, but the Dark World is not the Golden Land only. It is it's own world; please read some more.

 

[Skull_Kid]

No, the Dark world IS the Golden land warped, that's all.
Anything else is pure speculation

 

[ChargewithSword]

No, the Dark world IS the Golden land warped, that's all.
Anything else is pure speculation

Then what is it in FSA? OOX? Ganon wasn't there to warp the Golden Land.

 

[Skull_Kid]

The Dark World from FSA is not the same as the Dark World in ALttP.
Or maybe it is, but if it is, that would lead to a major plot hole, because it is stated several times in-game, in ALttP, that the Golden Land was turned into the Dark World by Ganon's wishes.
Has somebody checked the japanese script of both games?

 

[ChargewithSword]

The Dark World from FSA is not the same as the Dark World in ALttP.
Or maybe it is, but if it is, that would lead to a major plot hole, because it is stated several times in-game, in ALttP, that the Golden Land was turned into the Dark World by Ganon's wishes.
Has somebody checked the japanese script of both games?

It is still called the Dark World by name and it effects the light world just like the Dark world in Alttp. I pointed this all out in my theory. There is no proof in stating that the Dark World in Alttp is different from FSA. They are called the same name and function similary, they are the same.

Edit: I have to go to school, I'll deal with you later.

 

[Skull_Kid]

Yes, but as I said, there is an origin stated for the DW in ALttP, but, in FSA, there is no explanation to it's appearance and it works kinda more like the Twilight Realm in Tp than the DW of ALttP

 

[Retro Ganon]

I like reading Dark World topics. This is a good thread. I'll throw in my two cents.

On the Dark World debate...

Between most titles involving Ganon, it seems he is always finding ways to extend darkness into the world (whether by extending his Dark World or other means of corruption), and that's always a result of breaking some seal to do it. Whether its defaulting the powers of the sages or maidens or even the Master Sword, this is a common trend seen throughout the series.

Why is this important?

I find it interesting that FSA Ganon goes straight for the maidens at the beginning of the game. Just like in ALttP, the barriers between the Dark World and Light Word are defaulted when the power of the maidens are shrouded in darkness. So therefore we have some indication that the Dark World is the same as ALttP.

But wait, we also have to recognize the fact that this "Dark World" merges into the physical plane of the Light World as it does the Twilight Realm during TP. What causes this?

The second element in Ganon's plans involves Vaati getting released. When this is accomplished Vaati stations his dark barriers around Hyrule which drain the 'energy' from the land. This scenario sound awfully familiar. Observe,

[Here we see the orbs draining what appears to be the 'life force' of the surrounding area]

[We also have a representation of seeing shadows between physical objects of both Dark and Light World AND Physical interaction between the two - giving us an idea how thin the barrier between both planes of existence]

[And to top it off, here we also have the same scenario happening as in the first image... but look at the trees. If I'm correct, those trees are a mocking image of those found in Skull Woods within the Dark World]


So which Dark World is it?

Its both Ganon's Dark World and the Twilight Realm. First Ganon defaults the power of the maidens to bring down the seal on his realm. Then Vaati uses his dark orbs which cause the Twilight Curtain to fall over areas of Hyrule. This combination causes a unique shadowy atmosphere of the Light World, Dark World, and Twilight Realm overlapping each other. Thus we have a new gameplay mechanic for the portals of this game too.

Therefore my conclusion is as I see this scenario showing us a warped mixture of three different planes of existence merging.


Now on to the point of the Dark Tribe.

Really, I don't have much to offer on this point but this image

This is the Dark Mirror chamber. And on the back wall is the notorious Knight Crest Symbol which Darknuts wear during the events of TWW and TMC. I can only conclude that this tribe is some how related to Ganon's Tribe of Evil. But in regards to Vaati... if he was able to summon Darknuts under his power, then that means he too is a part of the Tribe of Evil... or at LEAST in some indirect way. All TMC quotes is that Vaati was corrupted through the evil hearts of men... So this bit of information too vague to really speculate what that could mean in regards to his powers.

 

[Locke]

FSA DW =/= LttP DW. iirc, LttP's DW is a makai in Japanese, while FSA's is called something else (forgot what exactly).
Retro Ganon's theory doesn't look very appealing to me either...again, it could be explained by FSA's DW being of a different nature than LttP's. But as I said I'm not an expert on the subject, so it could be just as good as any other theory for all I know.

 

[Retro Ganon]

FSA DW =/= LttP DW. iirc, LttP's DW is a makai in Japanese, while FSA's is called something else (forgot what exactly).

I am somewhat familiar with the Japanese ReTranslation project going on at Zelda Informer. Even if the titles of the Dark World may differ, we have to account for the knowledge and perception of the 'Dark World' by the Hyrulians of FSA's era. No matter what one's timeline looks like, we have to speculate if people living within this time period know about the 'Dark World' - whether that be the Twilight Realm or Ganon's makai.

Since most people consider FSA to be the most likely prequel to ALttP, I would conclude that people of FSA era look at the Dark World in the same sense they would by the time ALttP takes place. Yet those that put FSA before OoT have legit reason to say the same with respect to knowledge of the Twilight Realm.

Of course I find the latter unlikely considering the Ancient Sages, Spirits of Light, and those of the Royal Family were the only ones to know the whereabouts of the Mirror of Twilight.

Retro Ganon's theory doesn't look very appealing to me either...again, it could be explained by FSA's DW being of a different nature than LttP's. But as I said I'm not an expert on the subject, so it could be just as good as any other theory for all I know.

I'm not an expert on the subject myself either. All I am doing is recognizing two scenarios (one from TP and the other ALttP) which look to be present within FSA's plot. If I failed to address an issue, please be more specific.