Kindle Publishing Fanfiction

[Skittles]

Almost, anyways:

Announcing Kindle Worlds

Apparently Amazons going to own everything. Dang, if it's Big Brother status wasn't certain before, it is now. He's watching over us, taking our fandoms and owning everything. It's the secret organization that happen rules us all and even our fandoms...

Drama aside, what do you think about Amazon publishing fanfiction and making big bucks? What affects well this have on copy-write? And why do I feel like this might be the wrong place for this topic?

 

[Sydney]

Never liked fanfiction, so frankly I don't give a damn.

 

[Ventus]

Fanfiction.net still exists and likely will still exist even after Kindle starts publishing. I don't care - I can still write stuff and get people to write stuff for me to free. <3

 

[Azure Sage]

Wow, that might be good news for me. It would be great if I could get my fan fiction published like that. I wonder if it covers the Legend of Zelda... At any rate, this is pretty interesting. I don't really have any reason to be against it at the moment. I don't have a Kindle though, so I doubt I could submit anything...

 

[misskitten]

Personally I see a lot of potential problems with this. The minute money is involved there's a lot of potential for abuse. The fanfiction world works on a sort of honor system. But when there's a chance to earn money on fanfiction what is to stop someone from submitting a story someone else has written? How would you prove which of the two people claiming to be the brains behind the story is actually the person who wrote it? Fanfiction is posted all over the web, some use larger archives, some use personal blogs or sites. Not all of it is conveniently timestamped so that there is a clear cut way to prove who wrote it.

* Stories will be available in digital format exclusively on Amazon.com, Kindle devices, iOS, Android, and PC/Mac via our Kindle Free Reading apps.
* Amazon Publishing will acquire all rights to your new stories, including global publication rights, for the term of copyright.

So no posting your story elsewhere, meaning it will divide the fandoms between those who decide to seek publication and those who choose to remain in the fandom. I predict that authors deciding to seek publication will be viewed as deserters and be resented for their action. There will be two camps of attitude, the elitists which will consider fanfiction posted online as 'not good enough' since it's free (kind of like how some already view fics posted on fanfiction.net compared to fics posted on sites with stricter regulations - just much worse), and the purists which will consider fanfiction publised for profit as sellouts.

And let's not forget this very vague part of their guidelines: It is the authors' responsibility to ensure that their content doesn't violate laws or copyright, trademark, privacy, publicity, or other rights. The very point of fanfiction is that it does do exactly this, you are using characters, worlds and events you didn't create yourself - you are expanding upon other people's intellectual property. Most of us will involve a bit of dialogue taken from the book, movie, episode, game, etc. - some more than others - so where do we draw the line between what is alright and what isn't?

And then there will most likely a lot of restrictions on what can and cannot be published in terms of content (now talking about content that isn't directly repeating dialogue or specific events taking place in the fandom, but that entirely created by the fanfic author) - firstly there's the whole concept of shipping - will only canon ships be allowed (this could potentially make already existing shipper wars worse)? What if a fic rewrites part of a character's history - will that be allowed? What if it suggests a lot of things about a character which has never been confirmed or even hinted towards?

All in all I have a bad feeling about what this potentially could do to the fandoms out there... because I can just predict a lot of resentment between groups...

 

[misskitten]

Fancfiction strikes me as lazy writing.

That's a bit of a generalization isn't it? It's a huge world after all, thousands upon thousands of fandoms, each with their share of stories ranging from a few dozens to hundreds of thousands. I agree with you about publishing fanfiction for money to be a really bad idea, but to put down the phenomenon as a whole is rather overkill. There is a lot of imagination and talent to be found there, if you just bother to go look for it.

 

[Cfrock]

I agree with Blue. There is a certain element of laziness about fanfiction which stems from the fact that it is writing stories about characters, settings, worlds or events which already exist. In my opinion, someone sitting down and spending time writing a fanfiction is no different to a child playing with two action figures and making up a story as it goes along. Both are just using pre-existing materials to indulge in a personal fantasy, the only difference is one is investing more time in doing so. While some fanfiction may be well written, I find it hard to respect the 'creativity' of writing a story based on someone else's work. In my view, if you have the effort and motivation to want to seriously write a piece of fiction then there's no reason why you can't just create something of your own. Fanfiction, in my view, should be for entertainment only. It should exist to allow fans to indulge themselves with stories based on universes they already know and care about. Fanfiction should not be rewarded with money or the ability to claim to be a 'published author' because that is, frankly, leeching off of someone else's efforts.

I find the idea of Amazon deciding to publish fanfiction to be in very poor taste. It will encourage people to think less by showing that there is money to be earned in just changing a few details in an existing intellectual property as well as enabling people to profit off of the work of others. I cannot agree with that. Fanfiction should be for a fan's entertainment and nothing more.

 

[Ventus]

In my opinion, someone sitting down and spending time writing a fanfiction is no different to a child playing with two action figures and making up a story as it goes along. Both are just using pre-existing materials to indulge in a personal fantasy, the only difference is one is investing more time in doing so.

That is actually what a majority of storywriting is in this day and age. Pretty much every plot device you could ever think of has already been done before; people are merely making adaptations whether consciously or not of pre-existing concepts. In fact, I daresay that a majority of prestigious writing is fanfiction material! :I

 

[Cfrock]

That is actually what a majority of storywriting is in this day and age. Pretty much every plot device you could ever think of has already been done before

Yes but that's been true since about the 16th Century, perhaps even earlier. There's a huge difference between re-using a plot device and infringing a copyright. For example, Zant and Ghiarhim from Zelda are both examples of a 'puppet villain' concept but both characters are vastly different and the stories surrounding them are vastly different to. You could easily argue that Ghirahim was a re-use of that plot device but there is originality in how the device was used.

Saying that 'every story has been done before' does not in any way make stories with similar plot devices fanfictions.

 

[misskitten]

I agree with Blue. There is a certain element of laziness about fanfiction which stems from the fact that it is writing stories about characters, settings, worlds or events which already exist. In my opinion, someone sitting down and spending time writing a fanfiction is no different to a child playing with two action figures and making up a story as it goes along. Both are just using pre-existing materials to indulge in a personal fantasy, the only difference is one is investing more time in doing so. While some fanfiction may be well written, I find it hard to respect the 'creativity' of writing a story based on someone else's work. In my view, if you have the effort and motivation to want to seriously write a piece of fiction then there's no reason why you can't just create something of your own. Fanfiction, in my view, should be for entertainment only. It should exist to allow fans to indulge themselves with stories based on universes they already know and care about. Fanfiction should not be rewarded with money or the ability to claim to be a 'published author' because that is, frankly, leeching off of someone else's efforts.

I do wonder how much fanfiction you've actually read. You are not wrong that there are plenty of stories out there which aren't more than what you'd expect from a child making up a story as they are playing. It is after all a very free forum for creativity as there is no exclusion. If you want to write, you can. However, fanfiction can be a lot of things, it can be an indulgement of a fantasy, it can be a stepping stone for people who seriously intend to pursue a career in writing, it can be a way to work out a reaction to whatever is happening in the fandom, but above all it is about having such a love for a fandom that you want to add to it. The core concept may be someone else's, but how much of it and what you do with it is your own choice. I fail to see the laziness in spending months and years of your life to create a story that you will receive no reward for other than the odd comment from a reader...

 

[Shadsie]

OKAY! All of you who are calling fanfiction "lazy writing" please be be clicking on THIS, like RIGHT NOW. (I've been wanting to use one of these clips ever since I learned of their existence).

Of course, they can be lazy writing, just like any kind of writing can be lazy writing. I full admit as a fanfiction writer AND a producer of original work that fanfiction is a tad easier because given characters and mythologies are already fleshed-out and it's loads easier to get random people to *pay attention* to your fanfiction writing, as opposed to all those original stories with original worldbuilding that you slaved over...

But those of us who've been at it for a while and care about the craft... no... just know... I slave over fanfictions I care about a great deal. A fanfiction is as likely to have me staying up all night working and editing and re-editing as an original story. Yes, 99 percent of all fanfiction you'll find on the Internet is crap and much of it is pr0n, but there are those of us who strive to be exceptions to the rule.

Not to mention, if you know your literary history, you'll find that, prior to modern copyright laws -- a whole lot of what we consider "classic literature" actually IS "fanfiction" of earlier sources, earlier stories, oral legends, etc.

......

As for what Kindle is doing... I kind of find it ethically dubious - especially if it does involve people profiting from their fanfiction. You see, I have been comtemplating the possibilty of Kindle publishing, myself, that is ORIGINAL WORK. I'm re-re-editing something now for that purpose (if I can't get the attention the attention of a literary agent after one or two more bids the traditional way). I don't think I'd want to put my fanficiton on Kindle, even though it is more popular than anything original I've ever offered for free online (see my website? Sig. CLICK THE SIG, DINDAMMIT). I think it's well enough that have The Fanfiction Network to put my work on as well as An Archive Of Our Own (and the subsite to my personal writing site...which I paid the good folks at GoDaddy for). Putting fanfic on Kindle in a way that would seem to compete with the source material and official materials just seems... odd to me.

I like fanfiction as a creepy Internet subculture, thank you, very much.

*Goes back to being creepy.*

 

[Hanyou]

Fancfiction strikes me as lazy writing.

Why? Because it's based on an existing story? That's the only thing I can think of, technically, that separates fanfiction from regular fiction.

I assume you also believe that adaptations, stories based on or drawing from world religions, etc. are lazy writing. That would include Paradise Lost, The Chronicles of Narnia, and, hell, Shakespeare's plays are also lazy writing. How about Grendel, based on the first monster from Beowulf? These are some fantastic works of literature. What level of originality is necessary to not be lazy?

Or perhaps you have another definition.

I wrote all this before reading Cfrock's posts, so to address those:

Yes but that's been true since about the 16th Century, perhaps even earlier. There's a huge difference between re-using a plot device and infringing a copyright. For example, Zant and Ghiarhim from Zelda are both examples of a 'puppet villain' concept but both characters are vastly different and the stories surrounding them are vastly different to. You could easily argue that Ghirahim was a re-use of that plot device but there is originality in how the device was used.

Then Grendel is lazy writing, correct? Paradise Lost must be as well.

In any case, I don't personally like most of what is called "fanfiction," (at least not what I've read) but I'm not willing to make any proclamations about the quality of writing.

Glad there is an easily accessible option for making a profit off fanfiction now. I have huge issues with laws about intellectual property in general, so this is a tangled subject for me--but suffice to say, I have nothing against making a profit off new stories about existing characters and settings, so this seems like a good development.

 

[Salem]

What if fanfiction is just a way an aspiring writer learns how to write stories? If they can't come up with original characters and settings, they can use an existing one to practice or something.

 

[Cfrock]

When I'm using the term lazy what I mean by it is that using an established fiction as a source for your own strikes me as willingly avoiding the step of creating something new, similar to how using a meme because you can't think of a joke of your own is lazy humour. I even made mention that not all fanfiction is low quality. The quality of such works was never part of my point. I am also aware that there are numerous examples of classic literature which are nothing more than fanfiction. For example, there are a whole host of novels based off of Lewis Caroll's books about Alice and about Wonderland, a culture which he embraced and encouraged to thrive. This does not in any way stop these works being fanfictions. The quality of a piece of fanfiction or its place in literary canon has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the fact that such works are still, at the very heart of themselves, based off of someone else's creation. And I don't mean based off of them in terms of there are a couple of similar plot points or a few connections that can be made in structure or style, I mean set in existing worlds, using existing characters and perhaps even being based around existing events, none of which were originally created by the fanfiction author.

As I said earlier, I don't have any issue with people doing this for entertainment purposes and writing fanfiction can be a way for people to practice their writing, playing around with different forms and tones and anything else they wish to work on. Where my personal objection comes in is that I do not think it is right for people to be able to profit off of fanfiction. This view is not limited to the many people posting on sites like Fanfiction.net, I mean anyone who writes a book which is fanfiction should not be rewarded for avoiding that first creative step. Again, my objection is not to fanfiction itself but to profiting off of the creations of someone else. That is why I do not agree with Kindle publishing such things.

 

[Salem]

So, copyright infringement is the issue, not fan fiction so we agree, right?