GenGame: New SSB Challengers

[DeletedUser9]

Krazy4Krash, I'm with you to a point about disliking the Smash Brothers speculation. Speaking of your dream roster is one thing but it's not really a topic that interests me either.

I have a few (IMO realistic considerations) for the next Smash Brothers' roster.

Snake and Sonic will remain, and I expect no more than three new new 3rd party characters. Like Krash, I think Mega Man is an extremely likelihood. My next expectations would be Black Mage from Final Fantasy and Dracula (or a Belmont) from Castlevania. These are both series that have had intimate ties to Nintendo consoles at different points -- just as Metal Gear had early Nintendo console appearances and Sega used to be Nintendo's main competitor -- so they would seem to be natural fits to me. I suppose Bomberman would be another possibility, but he doesn't seem as likely to me.

I also agree that Zoroark should replace Lucario. (Krash we agree a lot. :bleh: )

Despite scaling issues (which could be overcome, and should), Ridley needs to be playable.

I'd like to see Hades from Kid Icarus Uprising as well... either playable, or ideally as Adventure Mode's villain. I think this time around, it'd be cool if we primarily saw enemies from the actual Nintendo series and not original foes like in Subspace Emissary. We could have some extra villain characters (like Ridley), some playable and some just bosses, and the mastermind could be Hades, mimicking his role in the plot of Uprising. This would be a classic move by Sakurai, as well, with how he's favored his own games' characters in the past.

Regarding stages... we really NEED a tilting Levias with attacks by Skytails and Bilocyte, and we need something based on Team Plasma. Perhaps N's Castle, and it needs to have the friggin' Team Plasma battle theme as a song, unedited.

This, I think, is completely ridiculous. Geno being in Brawl was a rumour and nothing more. (Source) Disregarding Brawl, though, Geno is too obscure to be a playable character. He's only been in two games (as a partner in Super Mario PRG and a cameo in Super Star Saga, made in 1996 and 2003, respectively). His inclusion would be as a unless nostalgic character, like Mr. Game and Watch and Ice Climbers. As mentioned in my previous post, it would be very unwise to include any more characters for such a reason.

I don't agree with you here though. Mr. Game & Watch and Ice Climbers might be nostalgic characters, but it's hardly appropriate to define them as useless because by now they've practically become staples of the Smash Brothers series, if not Nintendo in general. Do not forget that Pit counted under this as well until his inclusion in Brawl blatantly inspired his series' revival.

Nintendo has and will definitely continue to include character who are in high demand, regardless of their involvement in modern Nintendo games. Yes they favor new characters -- as do the fans -- but sometimes the fans and Nintendo also include other characters. I don't think it's a coincidence that so many character's from Sakurai's Kirby games had prominence in Brawl's Subspace Emissary, and it's a fact that Snake only made it into Brawl because Kojima and Sakurai wanted him to be, so executive decisions come into this too.

Young Link should return, yes, but as an alternate colour scheme to Toon Link, not a separate character. Toon and Young Link should share a character that are changeable at the menu and act just like colour schemes of each other, but changes their models and voices to the respective character.

Annnnd back to agreeing. Not only do I think they should do this, but I think this should become extremely common. We need more characters who exist only as alternate costumes. They would have different models and voices, and different graphics for their moves, but the moves would not differ and they'd be glorified alternate costumes. This would allow them to easily fill out the roster with more characters without actually having a ridiculous character count. Some easy examples of this would include:

Link - Dark Link - Young Link - Toon Link - Ghirahim (he might work better as a modified Marth)

Ganondorf - Pig Ganon - Demise - Malladus

Peach - Rosalina

Pokemon Trainer - incarnations to include the trainers and starters from EVERY gen

Among many other examples; all of the current clones could probably work as alternate costumes instead.




(Regarding the article itself, I definitely am with it on Ridley and a Mii -- perhaps with a customizable moveset, as a carefully balanced character builder function? Mickey could work now with the Epic Mickey series, and could be possible with how much has been happening with that. A Kingdom Hearts participant would be somewhat unlikely, but interesting, however the most likely candidate would be Sora, not Riku.)

 

[Krazy4Krash]

[What Axle said]

In regards to Ridley, I agree with you and he is well worthy of being a playable character, but I think size isn't the issue. They could easily scale him down, yes. He was only a little bigger than Samus' in the first Metroid Game. The problem is the fact he is almost always flying and would be extremely awkward to program and play as.

By saying that Mr. Game & Watch and Ice Climbers were useless, I was referring to their original inclusions in Melee. When they were chosen to be in Melee, they could have easily been left out because then, at that point in time, they were useless nostalgic characters. They are staples now and will not be removed, like you said.
Pit is the same case. He could have easily been left out of Brawl, and then the Kid Icarus series would have been nothing more than a series of two games from over twenty years ago. What I'm saying is that because SSB4 will not include many new characters at all, Nintendo should not repeat these actions and reboot say, The Balloon Fight series with the inclusion of its main character.

 

[DeletedUser9]

In regards to Ridley, I agree with you and he is well worthy of being a playable character, but I think size isn't the issue. They could easily scale him down, yes. He was only a little bigger than Samus' in the first Metroid Game. The problem is the fact he is almost always flying and would be extremely awkward to program and play as.

That's not really true at all anymore. The entire final portion of Ridley's battle in Metroid Prime had him entirely grounded, whereas that was reversed in Prime 3 where his true battle near the end of the game has him on the ground almost the entire fight until he flies at the end. Then in Other M, he basically fights 50-50 from the ground and the air. He is now basically nicely split as a ground and air combatant, and this could and should be reflected as a character. They could easily make him aerial-centric though. There are plenty of other character who perform best in the air, and Ridley could be the same. He could easily have a double jump like Meta Knight and Pit's, or maybe even like Peach, so he can stay in the air most of the time.

By saying that Mr. Game & Watch and Ice Climbers were useless, I was referring to their original inclusions in Melee. When they were chosen to be in Melee, they could have easily been left out because then, at that point in time, they were useless nostalgic characters. They are staples now and will not be removed, like you said.
Pit is the same case. He could have easily been left out of Brawl, and then the Kid Icarus series would have been nothing more than a series of two games from over twenty years ago. What I'm saying is that because SSB4 will not include many new characters at all, Nintendo should not repeat these actions and reboot say, The Balloon Fight series with the inclusion of its main character.

I getcha. But I still don't get why this means they should not include them. Such characters have been very, very popular inclusions in the series. Why would or should Nintendo just... stop doing something that's working?

 

[Krazy4Krash]

That's not really true at all anymore. The entire final portion of Ridley's battle in Metroid Prime had him entirely grounded, whereas that was reversed in Prime 3 where his true battle near the end of the game has him on the ground almost the entire fight until he flies at the end. Then in Other M, he basically fights 50-50 from the ground and the air. He is now basically nicely split as a ground and air combatant, and this could and should be reflected as a character. They could easily make him aerial-centric though. There are plenty of other character who perform best in the air, and Ridley could be the same. He could easily have a double jump like Meta Knight and Pit's, or maybe even like Peach, so he can stay in the air most of the time.

Fair enough. I haven't played through any of the more recent Metroid games very thoroughly and didn't really consider any of that. You present some good points.

I getcha. But I still don't get why this means they should not include them. Such characters have been very, very popular inclusions in the series. Why would or should Nintendo just... stop doing something that's working?

I think saying they're very, very popular is a bit of a stretch. They are liked, yeah, but they're not that popular to fans. Almost everybody I know hates Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, Pit and R.O.B.

I just think Nintendo shouldn't repeat these actions in SSB4 because if they're not going to bring many new characters to the roster, this shouldn't be a reason to add them, because it'd waste space. They should save roster space for characters included for better reasons, such as the more popular, series staple characters filled with tons of potential for a moveset, not a character from a game twenty years old nobody knows of any more.

 

[Vanitas Remnant]

I meant that because they didn't originate from a video game, but instead from a manga and a cartoon, respectively, they are impossible entries. It is a basic rule that a character must have had their first appearance in a video game. Without this, entries would be too open. Goku and Mickey are too obscure, anyway.

Ah, I see. Although I don't think Mickey Mouse is too obscure, he's been around since 1930- something.

Unless you mean obscure in video games ._.

New characters will be added. This is for certain. He has said that not too many characters will be added, as in, not like the increase of 13 newcomers from SSB64 to Melee, the increase of 15 newcomers from Melee to Brawl, but instead an increase of, maybe 6-8 newcomers, which is more reasonable. There is not too many characters from Nintendo's first-party franchises that are worthy of being playable characters, so newcomers will likely be very popular, Nintendo-console-heavy third-party characters.

He doesn't want to make characters more "fun", but more balanced. This is what the developers will spent more of their time doing, as opposed to making over a dozen new movesets for new characters. Super Smash Bros. 4 will be fun regardless of any characters that are in and any balancing issues that may be present. I trust Sakurai to make the correct decisions.

I getcha. I definitely don't need a bunch more characters. I mean, it takes an HOUR AND A HALF for my sisters to pick a character. Fun -_-

Peach - Rosalina

Don't forget Daisy!

 

[Krazy4Krash]

Ah, I see. Although I don't think Mickey Mouse is too obscure, he's been around since 1930- something.

Unless you mean obscure in video games ._.

Yes, in video games.

 

[DeletedUser9]

Krash I don't mean to offend, but I think you might be projecting your personal opinion more than you intend.

Mickey Mouse is significantly less obscure than Pit, and as I said he, among other obscure characters were significantly good choices for the roster. I understand your reasons for saying that they shouldn't add any more character that are obscure like that, but I'm not convinced there's much objective reason for this, so much as a personal reason (which is fine, it just looks different in a debate). I think the idea that newer characters have "better reason" to be in the game is pretty subjective, because the only reason a character could be a good or bad idea is because of how much appeal they have among fans.

I getcha. I definitely don't need a bunch more characters. I mean, it takes an HOUR AND A HALF for my sisters to pick a character. Fun -_-

...Please explain. o_0

Don't forget Daisy!

I only intended that as a list of examples, so I didn't include Daisy because she's virtually identical to Peach... but ya, Daisy too. Though Rosalina is way hotter. :bleh:

 

[Ventus]

...Please explain. o_0

I only intended that as a list of examples, so I didn't include Daisy because she's virtually identical to Peach... but ya, Daisy too. Though Rosalina is way hotter. :bleh:

I'm not speaking for K4K, but oh God whenever I'm playing with people that AREN'T my brother, they just get so fixated ont hes heer amount of characters available to use. 35+ characters means we never get a match started, and ends with me just mashing the Select button on their controller to get it over with. The Random option doesn't even work; it's just sheer procrastination on their end.

Rosalina = not hot

 

[Krazy4Krash]

I'm not offended, Axle. Whatever I give is my opinion, and that's I've intended. I just try to be at least a bit realistic (or at least my opinion of what being realistic is), unlike numerous other people over the internet who are acting ridiculous. Everything is subjective and my opinion is no more powerful than the average user. What really matters in the end is what Sakurai wants and, as you said, who appeals to the audience.

 

[DeletedUser9]

I'm not speaking for K4K, but oh God whenever I'm playing with people that AREN'T my brother, they just get so fixated ont hes heer amount of characters available to use. 35+ characters means we never get a match started, and ends with me just mashing the Select button on their controller to get it over with. The Random option doesn't even work; it's just sheer procrastination on their end.

...Huh. I don't get that but alright. xP

Rosalina = not hot

Rosalina = incredibly mindblowingly hot.

I'm not offended, Axle. Whatever I give is my opinion, and that's I've intended. I just try to be at least a bit realistic, unlike numerous other people over the internet who are acting ridiculous. Everything is subjective and my opinion is no more powerful than the average user. What really matters in the end is what Sakurai wants and, as you said, who appeals to the audience.

Fair enough. I'm typically one to engage in a discussion while attempting to be objective, so I'm not always that good at spotting when someone isn't doing that. My apologies.

 

[Krazy4Krash]

Also, Rosalina > Peach > Daisy

Fact.