Ganon in the first game - mindless beast or a cunning prince of darkness

[BaroisLoose]

Hey everyone! This is related to the Timeline yet again. (I love lore as everyone might have noticed!) This is something I wanted to talk about for a while now and it's about this part from the Book Hyrule Historia!

The Demon King Ganon (Hyrule Historia - page 106)
"The Demon King has been defeated countless times by heroes in the past. He is thought to have been resurrected after many years. Leading a demon army, he invades Lesser Hyrule, seeking the Triforce. No longer bearing any traces of the man known as the Great Thief, Ganondorf, he opposes Link in the form of a demonic beast, bereft of intelligence."

A lot of people seem to agree that Ganon was resurrected before The Legend of Zelda happened and was even a mindless beast! I honestly would disagree with this! A page before that, the book says this about the Wizard from the Tragedy of Zelda I:

The Wizard (Hyrule Historia - page 104)
"A close confidant to Zelda's elder brother, the king. He dies after using the last of his power to lay a curse upon Princess Zelda. The true nature of the man who stubbornly in on the secret of the Triforce is uncertain. However, it's possible that he's an offshoot of Ganon, much like Agahnim, or merely his follower."

I would actually support the theory of the Wizard being Ganon's new alter-ego! Him so suddenly raging on Zelda would really fit well to the Prince of Darkness! The appearance of the Wizard really gives that away;

-he as Hyrule Historia mentioned; has a great obsession on the Triforce.
-he has the exact same skin-color as Ganon.
-the necklace resembles some of the depictions of Ganon back then.
-he seems to also manipulate the prince in this artwork? Quite the style Ganon would take!
-he as mentioned before; suddenly rages on the princess! Seems very normal that he'd do so if it's Ganon!
While this is probably more coincidence than anything; it seems very obvious to me that this Wizard is another offshoot of his; the Nintendo of America description for The Legend of Zelda also says Ganon was sealed away;
"Ganon, the King of Evil, has broken free of the Dark World and has captured Hyrule's beloved Princess Zelda."
I wouldn't say he's sealed in the Dark World necessarily but I definitely think he was sealed away! Which would debunk him being resurrected from the dead! Now on to the mindless thing; him being the Wizard was probably a plan to kill the king and get the Triforce but he already hid Courage so he just did the plan B in the tragedy which ended with his other plan failing miserably. He then waits for another few centuries until he's freed by his minions! He's also represented with normal eyes in official concept artwork! I also think him being mindless should stay a one time thing in Oracle of Seasons and Ages. I could see him not having traces of Ganondorf anymore but definitely not him being mindless! I think that also ruins the sort-of thread and mysteriousness from back then. But that's just me.

EDIT: let's not forget that he heard the news of Princess Zelda splitting the Triforce of Wisdom and instantly imprisoned her! When he heard that Impa searched for someone to beat him, he had also commanded a part of his army to search for her!

Anyways, thoughts on Ganon being mindless in the first game? Very interested on everyone's thoughts right now!

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

It's pretty obvious that when he became Ganon he lost some of his intelligence in the form - it's basically him giving into rage and choosing to use brute force to get his way.

We don't know if the Wizard who cast the spell on Zelda in The Adventure of Link is Ganon, and keep in mind when this game was created, Agahnim wasn't even created yet to draw influence from.

 

[BaroisLoose]

It's pretty obvious that when he became Ganon he lost some of his intelligence in the form - it's basically him giving into rage and choosing to use brute force to get his way.

We don't know if the Wizard who cast the spell on Zelda in The Adventure of Link is Ganon, and keep in mind when this game was created, Agahnim wasn't even created yet to draw influence from.

Indeed, he is blinded by rage as well. Though, he did keep some parts of his intelligence presumably. He was only confirmed in the games as mindless in Oracle of Seasons and Ages. Otherwise, in all his other appearances, he mostly has intelligence to do his plans like in A Link to the Past or Four Swords Adventures. The Magician thing is only a "possibility", indeed! He could as the Historia mentioned just only be a minion and nothing else. Though, I like the idea of it being a failed plan of Ganon's to get the Triforce. It wouldn't wonder me if they somehow retconned it to be Ganon in the future. The "he broke his seal" in the Virtual Console description does seem to kind-of already make this a big possibility. The Wizard seems to be a "prototype" of Agahnim. Who as we all know; is a creation by Ganon with a part of his soul. So I think the Magician being Ganon would be a logical thing, though it's just speculation.

And yeah, it's very obvious that he lost his humanity as Ganon*

 

[baajabajao]

He seems to have returned to human form twice in the Adult timeline, so I wouldn't say the pig form itself is evidence of him losing his identity as Ganondorf. But in everything after A link to the Past, Ganon seems to be pretty much inseparable from Demise since he keeps coming back after being killed. The early games also portray Ganon as some kind of demigod with followers who are always trying to resurrect him. So my guess is he was dead during the time of Zelda I, and this magician perhaps got his powers by worshipping him.

Then there's also Calamity Ganon, who's essentially a demon who's cyclically killed and reborn. So I guess he becomes more of a force of nature rather than necessarily 'mindless'.

 

[BaroisLoose]

He seems to have returned to human form twice in the Adult timeline, so I wouldn't say the pig form itself is evidence of him losing his identity as Ganondorf. But in everything after A link to the Past, Ganon seems to be pretty much inseparable from Demise since he keeps coming back after being killed. The early games also portray Ganon as some kind of demigod with followers who are always trying to resurrect him. So my guess is he was dead during the time of Zelda I, and this magician perhaps got his powers by worshipping him.

Then there's also Calamity Ganon, who's essentially a demon who's cyclically killed and reborn. So I guess he becomes more of a force of nature rather than necessarily 'mindless'.

Indeed, his followers tried to instantly resurrect him after he died in The Legend of Zelda. Though, if I'm being honest, he seems to have simply been in some kind-of prison tbh. I imagined him being sealed similarly to aLBW where Ganon is sealed "in darkness". It unfortunately cannot be the Magician who resurrected him as he died centuries before! Calamity Ganon seems to simply be a off-shoot of Ganondorf, similarly to Agahnim (and maybe the Magician).

 

[Moblinking5000]

It's possible that the intention when HH was released was for the wizard to be a bunshin of Ganon, with him finally losing his remaining sanity by LoZ, but if so, ALBW seems to retcon this, as Ganon seems to be mindless in that game as well, letting Yuga take his body and not saying anything at all(he also never speaks in LoZ, but only roars). Personally, if anything, I'd go with him being a follower of Ganon instead of Ganon himself in the current canon. That way, we have a perfect progression for the DT:

OoT: Ganon born. Gets the Triforce of Power. Rules Hyrule for seven years. Defeats the HoT, and is sealed with the complete Triforce in the Sacred Realm, and is now permanently trapped in his beast form, but still has his intelligence.

Imprisoning War: Ganon sends his demons out of the Sacred Realm, now called the Dark World, and the sages seal the entrance to stop him.

ALttP: Ganon creates an offshoot of himself to escape the SR, and repeats his plan of getting close to the king, only to kill him. Link saves the seven maidens, and destroys Ganon in the Dark World before he can fully return to Hyrule.

OoX: Ganon is revived, but due to the incomplete ressurection, he returns as being mindless; however, he's still capable of limited speech. Link destroys him.

ALBW: Ganon revived by Yuga, is silent and allows Yuga to merge with him. Is defeated.

LoZ: Ganon is revived as a mindless raging beast, steals the ToP and kidnaps Zelda. Is defeated once again.

BotW: Finally after many more ressurections, Ganon descends even more into malice and hatred and becomes Calamity Ganon. He's defeated in the backstory and is revived again, only to be struck down by BotW Link.

Yes, I place BotW at the end of the DT, as it, IMO, makes the most sense. BotW2 shows us that Ganon became a human again between Aol and BotW at some point, but he nevertheless seems to be mindless based on what we've seen in the trailer.

 

[baajabajao]

Just a thought, but what if Ganon's intelligence depends on the body used to resurrect him? Maybe his mind can only reside inside an inheritor of a part of the Triforce. This is why Twinrova wanted to use Zelda's body for the resurrection. Also his followers are trying to use Link's blood in AoL for the same reason.

Honestly I prefer the idea that his mind simply decays due to hatred and Demise's curse. But maybe that doesn't give enough significance to the failed resurrection in OoX, since it assumes he was losing his mind anyway?

 

[BaroisLoose]

It's possible that the intention when HH was released was for the wizard to be a bunshin of Ganon, with him finally losing his remaining sanity by LoZ, but if so, ALBW seems to retcon this, as Ganon seems to be mindless in that game as well, letting Yuga take his body and not saying anything at all(he also never speaks in LoZ, but only roars). Personally, if anything, I'd go with him being a follower of Ganon instead of Ganon himself in the current canon. That way, we have a perfect progression for the DT:

OoT: Ganon born. Gets the Triforce of Power. Rules Hyrule for seven years. Defeats the HoT, and is sealed with the complete Triforce in the Sacred Realm, and is now permanently trapped in his beast form, but still has his intelligence.

Imprisoning War: Ganon sends his demons out of the Sacred Realm, now called the Dark World, and the sages seal the entrance to stop him.

ALttP: Ganon creates an offshoot of himself to escape the SR, and repeats his plan of getting close to the king, only to kill him. Link saves the seven maidens, and destroys Ganon in the Dark World before he can fully return to Hyrule.

OoX: Ganon is revived, but due to the incomplete ressurection, he returns as being mindless; however, he's still capable of limited speech. Link destroys him.

ALBW: Ganon revived by Yuga, is silent and allows Yuga to merge with him. Is defeated.

LoZ: Ganon is revived as a mindless raging beast, steals the ToP and kidnaps Zelda. Is defeated once again.

BotW: Finally after many more ressurections, Ganon descends even more into malice and hatred and becomes Calamity Ganon. He's defeated in the backstory and is revived again, only to be struck down by BotW Link.

Yes, I place BotW at the end of the DT, as it, IMO, makes the most sense. BotW2 shows us that Ganon became a human again between Aol and BotW at some point, but he nevertheless seems to be mindless based on what we've seen in the trailer.

I personally always imagined him to take over Yuga in the phase where Yuga betrays Hilda if I'm being honest. Felt like that some Ganon got there as well (though, it seems that Yuga always wanted to betray Hilda as well) and afterwards gets sealed. (yes, I interpret that defeat as a seal). Then he'd be able to break free from it, thanks fo his minions!

"One day, an evil army attacked this peaceful little kingdom and stole the Triforce of Power. This army was led by Ganon, the powerful Prince of Darkness who sought to plunge the world into fear and darkness under his rule."

I do have to agree that him being mindless could work as he's also called a "evil tyrant", which seemingly works with the he's bereft of intelligence thing.



(I cheaply edited the second horn or whatever it's called completely in as it isn't complete in the original xD) He looks very much like a competent beast with his own mind here to me, unlike in Oracle of Seasons & Oracle of Ages where he looks like he had genuinely lost intelligence (seen with the completely red eyes)




However, different eye color doesn't always mean he's mindless.... Four Swords Adventures shows him with black eyes snd red pupils and he seems to have a genius plan there.



I honestly just personally think he's more of a cunning king again, rather than a mindless raging beast, but that's just my own view as mentioned earlier! Yours can also work neatly as well ofc!

 

[BaroisLoose]

Just a thought, but what if Ganon's intelligence depends on the body used to resurrect him? Maybe his mind can only reside inside an inheritor of a part of the Triforce. This is why Twinrova wanted to use Zelda's body for the resurrection. Also his followers are trying to use Link's blood in AoL for the same reason.

Honestly I prefer the idea that his mind simply decays due to hatred and Demise's curse. But maybe that doesn't give enough significance to the failed resurrection in OoX, since it assumes he was losing his mind anyway?

I always assumed his resurrection fails as it well... is butchered. I always imagined that IF he was resurrected in Z1, they'd have to search for a new ritual which gives their master his "intelligence" or something like that. Hell, the backstory of aLBW states that Link sealed Ganon away! While the other parts of the story are OoT, the IW and aLttP, this part seems to be a separate adventure for the Hero! Perhaps after OoX Ganon had gotten a successful resurrection and then got instantly defeated ofc by the Hero and stayed in that seal until Yuga freed him.

 

[BaroisLoose]

Yes, I place BotW at the end of the DT, as it, IMO, makes the most sense. BotW2 shows us that Ganon became a human again between Aol and BotW at some point, but he nevertheless seems to be mindless based on what we've seen in the trailer.

How does he seem mindless in the first look of the sequel? He seemingly uses this device on top of him to trigger the earthquake/Hyrule Castle rising and then nearly kill Link and Zelda that way! That is not a mindless person! He's the good ol' cunning Ganondorf! Not the mindless beast who only exists if his resurrection is butchered in Oracle of Seasons & Oracle of Ages! He was smart enough to corrupt the Guardians and Divine Beasts, Calamity Ganon is a off-shoot, much like Agahnim from A Link to the Past! I again don't see how you think he's mindless there, when he really isn't from the footage we have now.

 

[Moblinking5000]

How does he seem mindless in the first look of the sequel? He seemingly uses this device on top of him to trigger the earthquake/Hyrule Castle rising and then nearly kill Link and Zelda that way! That is not a mindless person! He's the good ol' cunning Ganondorf! Not the mindless beast who only exists if his resurrection is butchered in Oracle of Seasons & Oracle of Ages! He was smart enough to corrupt the Guardians and Divine Beasts, Calamity Ganon is a off-shoot, much like Agahnim from A Link to the Past! I again don't see how you think he's mindless there, when he really isn't from the footage we have now.

I mean, ''use thingy to raise castle'' isn't something that seems to require alot of brain power. But Ganon is still reduced to shrieking in BotW2 without dialogue, which is something we see in mindless Ganon outside of OoX. Creating a Champion even says that Ganon is bereft of intelligence by the time of BotW due to his repeated defeats and revivals, so it doesn't matter if he's regained a human form sometime before that point.

I always assumed his resurrection fails as it well... is butchered. I always imagined that IF he was resurrected in Z1, they'd have to search for a new ritual which gives their master his "intelligence" or something like that. Hell, the backstory of aLBW states that Link sealed Ganon away! While the other parts of the story are OoT, the IW and aLttP, this part seems to be a separate adventure for the Hero!

I've considered that too; Painting I and II speak of the Era of Chaos, Painting III speaks of OoT and the Imprisoning War, and Painting IV and V speak of ALttP and an event where Ganon was ressurected and sealed with the ToP.It seems to be a mashup of DT history up to that point. LA and OoX seem to be skipped entirely, maybe because this history concerns Hyrule, and neither of those games happened in Hyrule.

 

[BaroisLoose]

I mean, ''use thingy to raise castle'' isn't something that seems to require alot of brain power. But Ganon is still reduced to shrieking in BotW2 without dialogue, which is something we see in mindless Ganon outside of OoX.

Saying he won't get Dialogue is really a stretch, he was sealed away for 90% until he fought off the seal and triggered the earthquake with the Malice Blast. The reason why I believe it's smart is because that device on top is in my theory originally built to be against Ganondorf if he breaks his seal, which he instead then uses to nearly kill Link and Zelda. Also where does he shriek in botw2? The closest is well Calamity Ganon but I doubt Ganondorf could make an off-shoot created by Malice talk. His off-shoot still had intelligence up until he turned to Dark Beast, there, he got blinded with hatred.

 

[Moblinking5000]

Saying he won't get Dialogue is really a stretch, he was sealed away for 90% until he fought off the seal and triggered the earthquake with the Malice Blast. The reason why I believe it's smart is because that device on top is in my theory originally built to be against Ganondorf if he breaks his seal, which he instead then uses to nearly kill Link and Zelda. Also where does he shriek in botw2? The closest is well Calamity Ganon but I doubt Ganondorf could make an off-shoot created by Malice talk. His off-shoot still had intelligence up until he turned to Dark Beast, there, he got blinded with hatred.

I mean, CaC says that Ganon is mindless due to his constant revivals. And you hear him shriek when the castle rises, IIRC. It sounds a bit faint.

 

[BaroisLoose]

I mean, CaC says that Ganon is mindless due to his constant revivals. And you hear him shriek when the castle rises, IIRC. It sounds a bit faint.

Where do you please hear him shriek when the Castle rises in the teaser of BotW2? Do you mean the Guardian pillars raising in BotW? That ain't the same thing as those rise up because they're against Ganon. The Castle rose specifically thanks to Ganondorf's Malice Blast (in my theory), the device should be against him but he then used it to nearly kill Link and Zelda. Do you also have the direct quote from CaC please? Him being "mindless" could work there as his off-shoot had practically failed to resurrect completely. But Ganons himself definitely won't be mindless!

 

[Moblinking5000]

Here's the quote: https://archive.org/details/TheLegendOfZeldaBreathOfTheWildCreatingAChampion/page/n365/mode/2up

Look at the Gerudo history in the distant past section.