DT Theory - Link's Wish in ALttP

[CyberIce2000]

This is my theory and one I made up myself and IMO works better than a "what-if" scenario that I would like to share. If you disagree, fine but like I said it's MY theory and I'm sticking with it until a better explanation comes from Nintendo than a "what-if" scenario or if a game comes along and disputes it (which could potentionally happen anyways but I hope not :p). So until than, read and enjoy!

We all know that HH states that Link or a hero dies at the final battle of Ganon at the end of OoT. This would have to be because this particular Link or hero was not strong enough to defeat Ganon. Let's stop here for a moment and go back to when ALttP came out.

We were told in the backstory of ALttP that there was a seal war and that Ganon was responsible for taking the full Triforce and being sealed in the Sacred Realm and thus turning it into the Dark World. We never witnessed the sealing war at this point in time. Were basically just told a legend. Now, this new Link in ALttP was strong enough and was successful in defeating this same Ganon that the previous hero could not defeat. When this Link was successful and was able to obtain the full Triforce, he made a wish.

Now let's fast foward to OoT, a prequel to ALttP. We witness at the end that this Link or hero defeats Ganon, which prevents him from taking the full Triforce. We also witness a sealing. This obviously isn't the seal war that we were told about in ALttP because even though Ganondorf is sealed away, he doesn't have the full Triforce because he wasn't successful in defeating Link. So, how does a prequel's ending not stick with the original's backstory?

That is where my theory comes into play. After ALttP Link defeats Ganon then wishes on the Triforce it also changes the past because of "A LINK to the past". That LINK I believe is connected to both Link's in OoT and ALttP because the OoT Link was able to wield the ToC and when ALttP obtained the full Triforce with the ToC, it caused a LINK (chain reaction) from that past to make OoT Link stronger and able to defeat Ganon, which completely changes the future to ALttP from happening to instead TP (CT) and TWW (AT). So instead of witnessing a fallen hero in OoT and the sealing war when we got a prequel, we witness instead a successful hero in OoT and a different sealing of Ganon resulting in two other alternate timelines because of Link's success in ALttP! So you still got 3 different timelines going on based on Link being successful in ALttP and not a "what-if" scenario.

So in a nutshell, this is what I'm taling about timeline wise:

Alternate OoT past (Adult Link is successful - Gets sent back as child Link) - TP
/
OoT (Link is defeated - Ganon obtains Triforce - SW) - ALttP (Link is successful - Changes the past for a better future creating an alternate OoT past)
/
Alternate OoT past (Adult Link is successful) - TWW


EDIT: Removed something that was irrelevant to my theory

 

[Locke]

The game's title, which translates to "Triforce of the Gods" doesn't support your theory.

HH explains that OoT is not the Seal War, which actually happens afterward.

 

[CyberIce2000]

The game's title, which translates to "Triforce of the Gods" doesn't support your theory.

Which means what exactly? It's still called A LINK to the Past.

HH explains that OoT is not the Seal War, which actually happens afterward.

I never said it was.

 

[OcarinistOfTime]

Cyber... I love it, I absolutely love it! I actually see both titles as support. As "Triforce Of The Gods" says the game will show the power of the Triforce (meaning Link's wish will have a great significance) and you've already explained how the American title lends support. My only problem is it's too perfect. LoZ's continuity is never that intact between games. Although you've probably explained the decline timeline better than Miyamoto or Aonuma ever will you're simply too good. Go get a job with Nintendo, Cyber. Maybe you can help them with this bumpy-wumpy mess of a continuity in time for Zelda Wii U.

 

[narfi]

This theory implies that Nintendo intended a timeline split all the way back when ALttP was made. I really don't think they would have had any plans for the plots of future games way back then. However, I think it's possible that they thought about it at least a little when OoT came out. My personal theory is that wishes made near the end of OoT caused the split.

 

[OcarinistOfTime]

This theory implies that Nintendo intended a timeline split all the way back when ALttP was made. I really don't think they would have had any plans for the plots of future games way back then. However, I think it's possible that they thought about it at least a little when OoT came out. My personal theory is that wishes made near the end of OoT caused the split.

The Triforce wasn't complete at the end of OoT no wishes are granted. And it doesn't necessarily imply knowledge of a time split or even OoT. Link simply wished for Ganondorf to be stopped way back when. He didn't know who/what would stop him or even how it would happen.

 

[VitaTempusN92]

I believe that ALttP Link's wish actually a create a new fourth timeline branched from OoT not the timeline that leads to WW, PH, and ST. This new timeline would be what I would call the "Fixed Timeline" or "True Adult Timeline" as where the "Adult Timeline" we know of that leads WW is what makes more sense a the "Hero is Absent Timeline" since the Hero as Time wasn't present in that timeline after defeating Ganon. Also, the Hero of Time was strong enough to face Ganon. I think of the "Hero is Defeated Timeline" as a paradox timeline where another villain set something up where Ganon somehow got advantage to defeat the Hero of Time. Whatever that "other" villain planned obviously had something to do with Ganon got his hands on the full Triforce so easily. Maybe it was some form of divine prank against Link and Zelda plotted in only that alternate version of those events. Anyway, it is on this "Hero is defeated Timeline" due to unfortunate altered turn of events that that leads to ALttP where that Link makes a wish to the Triforce that happens to involve fixing the past to how in that Link's mind the past the fixed thus creating a not yet confirmed fourth timeline off of OoT, that new timeline being the "True Adult Timeline" since in this timeline, Hero of Time will actually remain present, even after defeating Ganon. I know someone theorized on a fourth timeline that involved the Hero of Time staying rather than leaving in the past but my theory is at least somewhat different.

1) this fourth timeline is triggered because of ALttP

2) ALttP Link's wish is the reason in the again altered turn of events of OoT, Zelda decides to have Link stay rather than send him back.

3) Zelda has Link stay rather than sending him back due to her overwhelming anxiety because of what ALttP Link warned her about through his wish to the Triforce in the Triforce then sends Zelda the message. Because of this, it becomes hard for Zelda say her last goodbye to Link which leads to result of Link staying due to Zelda suddenly having fears of losing Link (which does include sending him back. I mean it has bad enough for her to wait seven years for his return and missing him because of it as it is, especially since she hardly had chance to get know him more which is probably what she would want since it is what every set of two or more people want is to get to know each other).

Anyways that's all I have to say about that for now, I'll explain more later.

 

[mαrkαsscoρ]

HH explains that OoT is not the Seal War, which actually happens afterward.

This obviously isn't the seal war that we were told about in ALttP because even though Ganondorf is sealed away, he doesn't have the full Triforce because he wasn't successful in defeating Link.

yeah....apparently he acknowledges that

This theory implies that Nintendo intended a timeline split all the way back when ALttP was made. I really don't think they would have had any plans for the plots of future games way back then.

well they clearly screwed up when ocarina of time contradicts the backstory of past,might as well have some kind of explanation like this as opposed to the half-*** 'if this had happened' nintendo gave us

 

[Setras]

I really don't get why everyone hates the Downfall timeline so much. I'm not looking to change anyone's mind- if you don't like it, you don't like it- but seriously, what is so bad about it? From what I've heard, Nintendo had originally intended for ALttP to be in the Adult timeline, while MM would be in the Child timeline; but after they made WW, they wrote themselves into a corner- and then thought outside the box and found a creative way to get themselves back out. Plus, the whole "alternate timeline" scenario has some real-world basis- according to quantum mechanics, every outcome that CAN happen, MUST happen. However, only one outcome can occur for a given situation in a given universe. Therefore, other, parallel universes must either already exist, or be generated at the time of the outcome, to accommodate. This is EXACTLY what happens in the official timeline- yes, if the game is played correctly, Link never loses to Ganon in OoT, and the game's programming won't let us finish if we don't generate this outcome. But from an in-universe perspective, Link losing is a very real possibility- and would therefore happen in a parallel universe, thus giving rise to the Downfall timeline.

It really confuses me when people boo and hiss at the Downfall timeline because it doesn't seem to gel with everything we know, but then create fan-based speculative theories that are even FURTHER outside the box, such as this one. Now don't get me wrong, I give full props for creativity- this was actually pretty inventive and well-presented. But Link wishing for the Adult (and by extension, Child) timeline outcomes to occur is not only unsupported, it also creates a paradox- if ALttP Link were to wish for the Hero of Time's success, it would mean that the events in the Downfall timeline never took place. This would either annihilate the Downfall timeline (which would then create the paradox- if the Hero of Time succeeded, ALttP would never happen, but if ALttP never happened, the Hero of Time would fail, but if the Hero of Time failed, ALttP would happen, etc., etc.) or generate an alternate timeline split anyway, thus doing what Nintendo did, but in a much more convoluted way.

 

[mαrkαsscoρ]

But Link wishing for the Adult (and by extension, Child) timeline outcomes to occur is not only unsupported, it also creates a paradox- if ALttP Link were to wish for the Hero of Time's success

actually he states it was game boy link obtaining the full triforce [w/ the triforce of courage in there,of course] is what caused n64 link in the past to have the power to defeat ganon,through a chain reaction

though to be fair,there is that problem w/ the entire downfall time becoming nonexistant due to the past being changed

 

[CyberIce2000]

Cyber... I love it, I absolutely love it! I actually see both titles as support. As "Triforce Of The Gods" says the game will show the power of

the Triforce (meaning Link's wish will have a great significance) and you've already explained how the American title lends support. My only problem is it's too perfect.

LoZ's continuity is never that intact between games. Although you've probably explained the decline timeline better than Miyamoto or Aonuma ever will you're simply too

good. Go get a job with Nintendo, Cyber. Maybe you can help them with this bumpy-wumpy mess of a continuity in time for Zelda Wii U.

I think I know what you are saying but remember ALttP came out way before any of this and so now that we are at this point in time, this was the best theory I could come up

with. If it's too perfect, than I guess it works.

Thanks for the compliment on me explaining the decline timeline better than Miyamoto or Aonuma. Whether or not they have this same theory or not I still think it's the best

explanation.

This theory implies that Nintendo intended a timeline split all the way back when ALttP was made. I really don't think they would have had any plans for

the plots of future games way back then. However, I think it's possible that they thought about it at least a little when OoT came out. My personal theory is that wishes made

near the end of OoT caused the split.

Not necessarily. They probably didn't even think about a time split when ALttP was made. So I agree that they didn't have any plans for plots of future games.

What wishes at the end of OoT?

I believe that ALttP Link's wish actually a create a new fourth timeline branched from OoT not the timeline that leads to WW, PH, and ST.

This new timeline would be what I would call the "Fixed Timeline" or "True Adult Timeline" as where the "Adult Timeline" we know of that leads WW is what makes more sense a

the "Hero is Absent Timeline" since the Hero as Time wasn't present in that timeline after defeating Ganon. Also, the Hero of Time was strong enough to face

Ganon. I think of the "Hero is Defeated Timeline" as a paradox timeline where another villain set something up where Ganon somehow got advantage to defeat the Hero of Time.

Whatever that "other" villain planned obviously had something to do with Ganon got his hands on the full Triforce so easily. Maybe it was some form of divine

prank against Link and Zelda plotted in only that alternate version of those events. Anyway, it is on this "Hero is defeated Timeline" due to unfortunate altered

turn of events that that leads to ALttP where that Link makes a wish to the Triforce that happens to involve fixing the past to how in that Link's mind the past

the fixed thus creating a not yet confirmed fourth timeline off of OoT, that new timeline being the "True Adult Timeline" since in this timeline, Hero of Time will

actually remain present, even after defeating Ganon. I know someone theorized on a fourth timeline that involved the Hero of Time staying rather than leaving in the past but

my theory is at least somewhat different.

1) this fourth timeline is triggered because of ALttP

2) ALttP Link's wish is the reason in the again altered turn of events of OoT, Zelda decides to have Link stay rather than send him back.

3) Zelda has Link stay rather than sending him back due to her overwhelming anxiety because of what ALttP Link warned her about through his wish to the Triforce in the

Triforce then sends Zelda the message. Because of this, it becomes hard for Zelda say her last goodbye to Link which leads to result of Link staying due to Zelda suddenly

having fears of losing Link (which does include sending him back. I mean it has bad enough for her to wait seven years for his return and missing him because of it as

it is, especially since she hardly had chance to get know him more which is probably what she would want since it is what every set of two or more people want is to get to

know each other).

Anyways that's all I have to say about that for now, I'll explain more later.

Well the problem with this is that there is no official fourth timeline branched from OoT so this theory cannot work now. I mean, what's there to discuss on a fourth

timeline? Nothing because we have no games that are part of a fourth timeline. Sure you can still believe that Link's wish may create another branch but than that's it.

Nothing else to discuss right? Honestly, I rather there not be a fourth timeline.

I really don't get why everyone hates the Downfall timeline so much. I'm not looking to change anyone's mind- if you don't like it, you don't like it-

but seriously, what is so bad about it? From what I've heard, Nintendo had originally intended for ALttP to be in the Adult timeline, while MM would be in the Child timeline;

but after they made WW, they wrote themselves into a corner- and then thought outside the box and found a creative way to get themselves back out. Plus, the whole "alternate

timeline" scenario has some real-world basis- according to quantum mechanics, every outcome that CAN happen, MUST happen. However, only one outcome can occur for a given

situation in a given universe. Therefore, other, parallel universes must either already exist, or be generated at the time of the outcome, to accommodate. This is EXACTLY

what happens in the official timeline- yes, if the game is played correctly, Link never loses to Ganon in OoT, and the game's programming won't let us finish if we don't

generate this outcome. But from an in-universe perspective, Link losing is a very real possibility- and would therefore happen in a parallel universe, thus giving rise to the

Downfall timeline.

It really confuses me when people boo and hiss at the Downfall timeline because it doesn't seem to gel with everything we know, but then create fan-based speculative theories

that are even FURTHER outside the box, such as this one. Now don't get me wrong, I give full props for creativity- this was actually pretty inventive and well-presented. But

Link wishing for the Adult (and by extension, Child) timeline outcomes to occur is not only unsupported, it also creates a paradox- if ALttP Link were to wish for the Hero of

Time's success, it would mean that the events in the Downfall timeline never took place. This would either annihilate the Downfall timeline (which would then create the

paradox- if the Hero of Time succeeded, ALttP would never happen, but if ALttP never happened, the Hero of Time would fail, but if the Hero of Time failed, ALttP would

happen, etc., etc.) or generate an alternate timeline split anyway, thus doing what Nintendo did, but in a much more convoluted way.

Who knows, perhaps a paradox of some sort did occur AFTER ALttP Link wished on the Triforce which at that point changed the past and then that whole time vanished (The screen

fading into white). But I also did say that Link's wish was for a better future, which we see in the ending scenes of ALttP (Voila! After the screen fade we get The Return of

the King, Link's uncle recovers, Flute Boy plays again, etc.) which means it might have not actually vanished but made it go on but in a alternate reality because of a wish to fix the world.


See, I'm just thinking outside the box here and not further away from it like you put it which seemed not much of a open minded response. It really doesn't matter to me that this it's "unsupported". Before HH, allot of our theories were unsupported at the time but some of our theories were pretty darn close to the official timeline too, some of us just didn't think of having a third branch at the time because really, who would have thought about a "what-if" timeline?

 

[HeroOfTime]

This is a really awesome theory, with a lot of evidence helping it, but there's a few things I wanted to say.

1. About the title, I think it is referring to Link's past. When aLttP was made, there were only two other games in the series; Zelda I and Zelda II. I think that the Link from aLttP is the same as Z-I and II. This game is sharing his past.

2. Also, this isn't really supported anywhere, but in the Manga book, it says that Link's wish is to bring Hyrule peace. At the end, it shows everything all happy and peaceful, and Link's uncle is alive again! I doubt that anything could have made his uncle come back except the triforce. On the same note, though, the Manga says that his parents and uncle didn't come back...

Other than that, excellent theory, and one that makes a lot of sense!

 

[CyberIce2000]

This is a really awesome theory, with a lot of evidence helping it, but there's a few things I wanted to say.

1. About the title, I think it is referring to Link's past. When aLttP was made, there were only two other games in the series; Zelda I and Zelda II. I think that the Link from aLttP is the same as Z-I and II. This game is sharing his past.

What past? It's been confirmed, especially when ALttP was first released that it was a prequel to LoZ. Hyrule Historia even shows this as canon and also that they are 2 completely different Link's.

I also sure hope you don't believe that "A Link" to the Past is referring to Link himself. Oh man...

2. Also, this isn't really supported anywhere, but in the Manga book, it says that Link's wish is to bring Hyrule peace. At the end, it shows everything all happy and peaceful, and Link's uncle is alive again! I doubt that anything could have made his uncle come back except the triforce. On the same note, though, the Manga says that his parents and uncle didn't come back...

Other than that, excellent theory, and one that makes a lot of sense!

I've never read the Manga books but I don't believe they are even considered canon based on the differences between them and the games.

 

[HeroOfTime]

Oops...

haha never mind. I haven't read HH yet, and was only quoting what a friend of mine said. I've only played the games and there's no evidence against what I said in the games. Well then, never mind what I said! As for the manga, I never said I thought it was canon. I was just pointing out what that said. Anyway, this is Zelda THEORY and none of it can be proven true or false unless confirmed by the directors.

 

[castigear]

It's actually not bad, and it is somewhat supported by the chronology of actual games. I've always thought that ALttP Link must have not made a very good wish, as evidenced by the events of LoZ and AoL. So basically you are saying that he wished for Ganon's defeat prior to the imprisoning war (which would make it OoT following backwards up the downfall timeline), and by doing so, he never actually saved his own timeline, which was okay because he had already kicked Ganon's tail prior to getting the triforce. To avoid the loop paradox mentioned earlier in the thread, the second timeline was created immediately prior to the events of OoT, and then the events of OoT split that second timeline into two subsequent ones.
It also neatly fixes the main problem most people have with the defeat timeline...the precedent it creates...that any game could potentially have a defeat timeline after it. This theory gives a real concrete reason why there is a defeat timeline...quite simply, it was the FIRST timeline.