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Down the rabbit hole: Lucid dream mafia - Game Thread

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Jamie

Till the roof comes off, till the lights go out...
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Since when did we use other games as evidence against people? My meta has changed throughout the days and tbh it's not a real argument regardless of anything. "Well, they did this before" means nothing. Town has also been at the end of wagons. Scum is most likely at the 3 or 4 spot but even then it isn't indicative of anything. You have to look at their reasons and the way they jumped on the wagon, not just when they did it.
 

Foo

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Well, I meant "would you join a late wagon", not "would you gather evidence".

But this work too.
The question is whether the observation "a player bussed" provides a measurable inferential effect on the proposition "the player is scum". This is a simple problem of Bayesian inference, and since we have numerical data, we can handle it quantitatively. Specifically, Bayes' theorem gives:

P(scum|vote for scum) = p(vote for scum|scum)*p(scum)/p(vote for scum)

p(scum) is found quite simply as the ratio of scum players to non-scum players on the days in question. During Crusader's vote there were 9 players (A Link In Time, musicfan, Linkdude74, Mellow Ezlo, Frozen Chosen, Spiritual Mask Salesman, Cody, JC-Hurin) and 3 (Eoghan, Hurin, and Cody) were scum. During Pendio's vote there were six players (Linkdude74, Batman, Go_Dark_Link, Blackkirby, Eduarda) and two of them were scum (Sadia and Eduarda). In the provided reference class this give p(scum) = 5/15 = 1/3.

p(vote for scum) is given as the ratio between the number of players on the wagons in question over the total player numbers, in this case 9/15=3/5.

p(vote for scum|scum) is found as the ratio of mafia members who bussed to total mafia members, or in this case 2/5.

So we have:

P(scum|vote for scum) = p(vote for scum|scum)*p(scum)/p(vote for scum)
P(scum|vote for scum) = (2/5)*(1/3)/(3/5) = 10/45 ~ 22%

Recall that we concluded the prior p(scum) to be 33%, so seeing that a person voted for scum has - all other things being equaled - actually lowered the credence to the proposition that they are Mafia by 11 percentage points, direct contravening the point you wanted to make with these data.

... Of course, I don't consider this by any means conclusive. The sample size is tiny and artificially selected, and we're not accounting for the "late to join" effect which had been discussed. I can do that analysis of you'd really like but I'm not particularly motivated to because - again - Mafia Is Antiinducitve and if an identifiable pattern really did exist then the game would evolve to remove it.

This is why I asked the question I did: would you, DekuNut, join a late bus if you were scum or do you consider it to much of a tell? For the sake of generalizability assume you're playing against a game-full of clones of yourself.
 

DekuNut

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AHHH!!!! MATH!!!
I THOUGHT I WAS SAFE FROM IT OVER THE SUMMER YOU BASTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARD!

Anyways
For me, it all depends. If new information came to light after they already have a sizable wagon, I would definitely join. However, if it was all based on the same information we'd had all day, I personally would not. However, everyone would react different. I'm unsure what those two would do in that situation.
 

Spiritual Mask Salesman

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w-what

Holding off votes until the last 24 hours before a day ends? That is absolutely the worst possible plan. Voting puts pressure on people and that is incredibly important. How people react to votes is literally how the game works. I'm completely dumbfounded - why would anyone want to hold off voting until literally no one has time to react to votes?



Also, Viral voting without a reason is a null tell, he does it every game as any alignment.
Idk when we are so unorganized it's best to get an idea of who we should target before rushing into it, unless of course there is sound reason to dive head first into voting. Obviously some people will be mod killed which is why we should be careful who we vote, I'm not saying I apply it to every game for each day, I'm saying with this flower rule things are different because everyone is required to atleast post 3 times.

I've never played a mafia game with Viral. Still I'd like to know his reasons.

OKAY! I learned my own reasoning!
Ari and Jonny: Simply for their being on the latter end of the Shroom wagon. Whenever scum is lynched, people immediately look to the end of the wagon.
SMS: Mask, you silly boy, stop misrepping me :P
My actual reasons here were because you were pushing for a majority lynch super early yesterday, and now, to make that stronger, you're saying "don't vote until the end of the day". What's up with this?
Like I said to Little Gumball above, today is different with this flower rule. I think you misunderstood me yesterday, I didn't mean we should majority lynch early, I was just suggesting we get organized to prevent a no lynch which is were we were almost heading with all the random voting. Do you disagree that it isn't a good ideology to remind early?
 

Spiritual Mask Salesman

CHIMer Dragonborn
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Comm. Coordinator
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For the record

3 Flowers Posted
Gumball
Sooshi
DekuNut
FC
Foo
SMS
Viral

1 or 2 Flowers Posted
ALIT
Doc
Sadia
Ezlo
Musicfan

No Flowers Posted
Repentance
Crus@der77x
Mido
Ari
Pendio
Add Repentence to the 3 flowers posted section. The new list looks like so:

3 Flowers Posted
Gumball
Sooshi
DekuNut
FC
Foo
SMS
Viral
Repentence

1 or 2 Flowers Posted
ALIT
Doc
Sadia
Ezlo
Musicfan

No Flowers Posted
Crus@der77x
Mido
Ari
Pendio
 

DekuNut

I play my drum for you
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Location
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Unvote

not sure who ta vote
This is one mean headache, it never really quite eases up!

Can't we get some coordination guys? Can't a few of us work together to get a majority lynch? At this rate we'll end up with a no lynch.
In case anyone was wondering, this is the post we're talking about.

I see where you're coming from with that, but at the same time you said majority, not work together to get a wagon.
 

Jamie

Till the roof comes off, till the lights go out...
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I've never seen a mafia game mod uphold a posting requirement when the day ended with majority lynch, SMS, if that's what you're implying.
 
Joined
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Are we voting now?


images
 

DekuNut

I play my drum for you
Joined
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You don't have to vote with everyone else, Zelda... majority is far from being reached. Also, don't vote randomly, there's stuff to go off of.
Besides, Odd isn't in this game.
 
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