Skyward Sword Demise's Hatred?, How About His Other Emotions

[Burning Beast]

I always figured Ganon was just venting his frustration by toying with Link, if he had a reason to kill Link, he wouldn't hesitate, he isn't "nice"
ya know?

Hmm, mayhap, then again, I guess the real reason Ganondorf didn't kill Link is cause he suspected (and did so correctly) that Link held the key to the door of Time.

However, I still stand by my idea of Demise at least holding some form of honor. And Ganondorf did give Link a chance to come after him when he captured Zelda originally, so perhaps that's a sense of honor there. But meh. Demise at least had honor.

 

[Salem]

Couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic or not.

I wasn't, this topic is supposed to be odd as you put it.

It's rather ridiculous to believe that almost any character has only one emotion that he/she is capable of expressing. Obviously Demise had to have a lot of pent up rage in order for him to express his hatred. There are also moments where he shows a sense of pride in his capabilities. One could even assume that when the Goddess sealed him within the Sealed Grounds that he felt a sense of shame, and was possibly envious of her victory. Though we may only see one side of a character, we should never assume that they only have very few emotions.

Yeah, but the question is if hatred is the only emotion he has is capable of being reincarnated?

I think Demise is an unloving being that contains no love to counteract the hatred. To draw a comparison, and please don't flame me on this because it's kind of a relevant analogy, look at Voldemort in Harry Potter. JK Rowling said Voldemort was incapable of love, and that is what kills him in the end, because that is what means he is unable to defeat Harry. He could use other people, convince them to follow him, but he never had any friends. I think there's a similar kind of magic in Demise and Link. I think maybe Link's defeat of him in the past, present and future, time and time again, protected the world from Demise ever reappearing in his full terror; I mean, we have to assume he himself is worse than any reincarnation, because he was able to defeat a goddess. However, he left his mark in small ways: in his greed for the Triforce, and the wish he would employ with it (to destroy the world), killing Hylia... those things are the only things tying him to the world. Therefore, any other things about him are irrelevant in comparison. He is clearly sadistic and evil- I don't think there's anything more to it than that.

Taking what I said about the comparison to Voldemort (and other villains in other stories), the ultimate villain is the one who has no redeeming quality, they are just evil and hateful.

That's pretty much the archetypical ultimate evil, however, Voldy comes from a western perspective of evil, While Demise is from an east Asian one, so they have different ideas of the ultimate 'evil'.

Hmm, mayhap, then again, I guess the real reason Ganondorf didn't kill Link is cause he suspected (and did so correctly) that Link held the key to the door of Time.

However, I still stand by my idea of Demise at least holding some form of honor. And Ganondorf did give Link a chance to come after him when he captured Zelda originally, so perhaps that's a sense of honor there. But meh. Demise at least had honor.

As far as I'm concerned, Demise IS Ganon.

 

[Burning Beast]

\

As far as I'm concerned, Demise IS Ganon.

So therefore... why exactly does Demise allow Link the chance to prepare himself? Link was an obstacle in his path of taking over the world and gaining the triforce, he could've attacked Link then and there after his battle with Ghirahim and had a distinct advantage. Demise wouldn't have wasted time toying with Link at that point. He would've recognized Link as the worthy foe he was and eliminated him as quickly as possible. But instead, because of his sense of honor, he allowed Link proper preparation time.

 

[Shadsie]

Personally, I have a hard time seeing emotions as "all bad" or "all good" - Even hatred has its good points occasionally, and can be turned to good ends. If you "hate" injustice for example -- people usually don't think of that when they think of "hatred," but if people don't actually, truly, literally detest, despise and wish to see an end to injustice, justice will not happen for them. More dubiouusly, there are survival stories out there of people who survived impossible odds simply because they were after an enemy or felt a friend had betrayed them and their *burning hatred* gave them the will to keep on going until they were able to get out of the situation. For me, hatred is evil when it has certain targets or a certain bent - irrational hatred, hatred toward people of a certain race, creed or sex just for existing, ect.

And that's what I think Demise had - a hatred for the Goddesses and their people, so he had the bad kind of hatred. Still, that hatred must have been fueled by other things - anger, for instance (which likewise can be good or bad, depending upon use), perhaps even a Well-Intentioned Extremism (creating a world only for demons, only for the strong).

I have developed an idea about Hyrule that the "monsters" of the land are actually born of human emotions and desires - that the land has a kind of magic in it that gives shape to some of the things that are in people's hearts and draws them out. Their irrational hatreds and overages of negativity and greed become the shadows they fight with swords. In this way, most of the people of Hryule are actually pretty good people, rather kind - I mean, everyone in the villages is so nice and helpful most of the time! I'd love to live in Hyrule! I think that Demise, quite possibly, is the ultimate of that "coeleascing hatred separated out from people." In other words, while in our world, we have these gray-moraled wars with terrorists and nations of differing interests, but it all ultimately involves human beings... and in our world, while we have Hitlers... Hyrule gets Demise/Ganondorf and wars against monsters with more-or-less black and white morality.

If any of the "rest" of Demise is reincarnated, I think Ganondorf has his hatred, his virility (Gerudo harems!), desire, and maybe even just a little bit of love and joy - of the kind that wants to take the beautiful things for himself and no other.

 

[Salem]

I have developed an idea about Hyrule that the "monsters" of the land are actually born of human emotions and desires - that the land has a kind of magic in it that gives shape to some of the things that are in people's hearts and draws them out. Their irrational hatreds and overages of negativity and greed become the shadows they fight with swords.

Interesting, isn't that how the sacred realm is? It's a mirror that reflects what's in the heart.

 

[Shadsie]

Interesting, isn't that how the sacred realm is? It's a mirror that reflects what's in the heart.

I actually formed that idea based on the Poes. In Ocarina of Time, the Poe-Salesman describes them as "spirits born of hatred and anger in the land." Given animist-legends, where everything has a spirit, including objects and legends legends about objects and spirits gaining sentience that abound in world mythology and fantasy stories... I didn't think it was an idea that was all that farfetched.

 

[Salem]

I actually formed that idea based on the Poes. In Ocarina of Time, the Poe-Salesman describes them as "spirits born of hatred and anger in the land." Given animist-legends, where everything has a spirit, including objects and legends legends about objects and spirits gaining sentience that abound in world mythology and fantasy stories... I didn't think it was an idea that was all that farfetched.

If they're born of hatred, does that mean they aren't sentient? They're just there? Or you're suggesting that Ganondorf is just a glorified Poe ghost?

 

[Justac00lguy]

As far as I'm concerned, Demise IS Ganon.

I know Nintendo alluded to the fact that Demise is essentially the source of all evil, or hatred in his context, but I don't believe in the whole idea of the curse itself.

I know many who share the same view, it just didn't seem right, it was too brief, a kick in the butt to say the least. So the source of Ganon and all other pure evils that block Link's path come from Demise's curse? Well this diminishes any individuality a villain had. Ganondorf - a unique figure set on claiming the Triforce for his own desires... well no, he is a formulation of Demise's curse, a branch of Demise. *sigh*

I don't believe the idea of the curse for many reasons, but the main one would be what Demise is essentially saying. He is basically reiterating the balance of power already present in the world itself - Courage, Wisdom and Power. Demise includes these three figures that are bound to these pieces in some fashion anyway. The Triforce is meant to be a whole relic, but it was split by Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time - he didn't have a pure heart and thus he could only acquire the Triforce of Power. Now the balance is not present, so the other pieces have to find their owner in a sense.

As long as there is evil there will always be good and vice versa, this is the case in multiple mythologies and it's the basic set up for many plots - as it would be boring otherwise. Demise was simply stating that this will always happen, maybe Nintendo half heartedly tried to explain the source, but it was done poorly and that so called "curse" didn't shed any light, in relation to what we didn't know at that as time.