A Timeline Theory (GASP)

[hwrdjacob]

Well... If my last thread raised any eyebrows, this will certianly mark me as a blasphemer... Yes, this is a Timeline Theory. I've already pointed out a few major inconsistencies wit the Imprisioning War and OoT in another thread, so go read that thread.

This timeline is best explained in a way where I present it as I built it. So prepare for a somewhat sizable OP.

The Zelda franchise's plot line is somewhat based around OoT as most of you know, but that's not nearly all. There are multiple games that have spawned several others that are based around them, resulting in "Story Arcs" or Chunks of the series that are inter related. Now, keep in mind I'm talking strictly plot wise, and only games that are directly related. Here's a list of these "Chunks" and the original game that started them:

NESLoZ (Spawned the whole franchise, but in particular plot wise Z2. You can argue it is a part of the next chunk, but it's so self contained I list it separately.)

ALttP (Spawned LA and ALBW)

OoT (Spawned MM, WW, TP, and SS)

FS (Spawned FSA and TMC)

TWW (Spawned PH and ST)

This leaves only the Oracles without a "Membership" in This group of Direct sequels. Amazing how almost the entire series is either a prequel or sequel directly to another when you think, isn't it? This just leaves the matter of how the chunks are ordered.

Before that, While it was (likely) not developed as such, there is sufficent evidence to support the theory (and statement by Nintendo) that OoX takes place between ALttP and LA, found mostly in the ending and openings. For one, Link is given free access to the Triforce, immediately implying that he is a Link that has already been on another adventure and claimed the Triforce. Since only Three games exist where Link Obtains the Full Triforce, ALttP, SS, and ALBW (There is the possibility of AoL, but he is only shown with the Triforce of Courage. I'm assuming the Royal Family reclaimed the ToP and ToW, since the Royal Family has a habit of keeping the Triforce, esp. the ToW. Plus, it's stated in the manual he just grabbed his Magical Sword and the Magic Shield (Notably calling out the fully upgraded variants from NESLoZ rather than generic ones) so I don't think he took the ToP and/or ToW with him). Ganon is stated to be previously defeated so that leaves only ALttP and ALBW. Both are equally possible until you look at the ending. Link leaves either Labbryna or Holodrum on a sailboat, which he is shown on in LA's opening. So, it is likely this is segwaying (intentionally or not) into LA. When a jigsaw puzzle is built, there is a trick where most people start with the outline, being the most obvious pieces. Likewise, I'll start with the less confusing story arcs and work up to the most (the NES and FS)

Its Obvious SS begins at the start of the Timeline, with the founding of Hyrule and such. OoT also establishes Ganon, so that must follow soon after. Since WW is a direct sequel more or less to OoT, it comes bundled with that arc too. Already, we have a good 40% of the Timeline done by process of elimination. In't it wonderful, Jim? (*note a "-" indicates direct sequels, while "---" indicates there is a gap of time in between) Here's a visual, with the split.

---------/WW-PH---ST
SS---OoT
---------\MM---TP

And FYI, that's a wrap for the Adult timeline. Now we move on, but there is a bit of puzzlement as to what comes next, isn't there? Now my debate goes into "Srs business" mode, cuz lotsa logic is about to go into this.
Since I already pointed out (In my last thread, GO READ IT) that OoT couldn't lead to the Imprisoning War of OoT and that the Ganon of ALttP and OoT can't be the same, It begs the question of just who the Ganon of ALttP is. And in the most recent post to that thread, I also deduced it is most likely the Ganon from FSA. Then a question arises: how did he escape the Four Sword? Well, to answer that, we need to ask something: who is more powerful, Vaati as the Wind God, or Ganon with the Trident? There is conflicting evidence for this. Ganon is manipulating Vaati in this game but is he truly controlling him? Has he brainwashed or merely bamboozled him? The former may be implied by how Vaati remains completely mute throughout FSA, but who knows? Maybe he didn't feel like talking. Then again... how powerful is the Trident? Vaati obtained his powers with the titular Minish Cap made by Ezlo, then forfeited it's powers when he obtained the Light Force. So it now becomes a question of Light Force VS. Trident. Now as for what the Light Force is, it most likely has no relation to the Triforce or Hylia. This is because it was brought to "The Hero of Men" by the Picori/Minish. This implies it was manufactured like the rest of their "Gifts", meaning it couldn't be related to the Triforce simply due to how both of these things have different origins. And the Zeldas outside TMC have powers attributed to either Hylia or a set of Seven Sages, so it mostly only applies to the Zelda in TMC. This brings into question when the War of the Bound Chest happens. It must happen after SS because it's different from Hylia's battle with Demise: that resulted in the creation of Skyloft to hide humanity from Demise, as well as Demise himself being sealed away, but not his minions, while TWotBC resulted in... the bound chest. Go figure. So ultimately, TWotBC is self contained, since Monsters existed beforehand, making the implication this was before OoT moot, and are let back out by Vaati at the start of the game. Why did we get Vaati and Ganon into a pissing contest? Two reasons. 1, I could make a point about the Light Force and the WotBC. 2, because if Ganon is more powerful than Vaati, who already jailbroke the FS, than surely Ganon could. Making the argument of "It can't be the same Ganon in AlttP because the Four Sword man" also moot. This actually makes TMC able to be placed at any point in the timeline as long as it predates FS and comes after SS. As for the placement of FS, the intro heavily implies it is a direct sequel to FS by using "Link" for the Hero of FS, implying familiarity with the player, as opposed to WW and TP using "Hero of Time" for example. So, the full timeline is:



---------/WW-PH---ST
SS---OoT
---------\MM---TP---TMC---FS-FSA---ALttP-OoX-LA---ALBW---TLoZ-AoL

As for why I put TMC there, I have several reasons. I said it could be placed anywhere in the Timeline Between SS and FS, so Nintendo's Placement of it isn't neccisarily wrong: I know this will make me sound stupid, but it just doesn't seem relevant before OoT. Imagine for a moment the Child timeline didn't exist. SS is relevant to WW due to the tempering of the Master Sword. OoT is extremely relevant. But TMC ends up being pointless filler. Not for the CT mind you, but for the AT... it really does, which contrasts with how every game is relevant in some way to the next. TP kills Ganon, meaning FSA has to bring him back, FSA has a Ganon balanced enough to obtain the Triforce setting up ALttP, and so on. You COULD put it there, but... it seems out of place, so really it's just my personal prefrence. It also separates 3D and 2D games, if you notice. It's just cleaner and more sensical to me.

Well, that's my timeline. I guarantee I forgot a few details, but that's why I want to hear what you all think. We can then debate the validity of this timeline. Now, Let mego back to procrastinating my VERY important school project.

On a closing note, I made this timeline back in early 2011, based on the knowledge SS was first in the timeline, and added ALBW in late 2013, using many of the points (Not all, however) found in the Youtuber Lancun's Zelda timeline, so I just want to thank him. I find it somewhat uplifting how, aside from the DT, TMC, and FS, this timeline is very similar to Nintendo's. Thanks Everyone.

EDIT: the line that goes up to WW is supposed to be between OoT and MM, but I cant get it to work on anything but the editor. :sad:

 

[Jirohnagi]

The oracle games come after Links Awakening. He journeys to find another land gets wrecked dreams an island saves it then goes on to return to hyrule a while later and the oracle games happen.

 

[Ganondork]

The oracle games come after Links Awakening. He journeys to find another land gets wrecked dreams an island saves it then goes on to return to hyrule a while later and the oracle games happen.

This entire comment is incorrect. For one thing, Link's Awakening comes after The Oracle Series. He was sent to Labrynna/Holodrum shortly after the events of A Link to the Past. Once he defeats Ganon and Twinrova, it ends with a scene of Link on a boat. This was a direct reference to Link's Awakening, implying that it came before. Furthermore, your reasoning of what would lead you to believe it was A Link to the Past -> Link's Awakening -> Oracle Series is shaky at best.

It's also important to note that Link dies shortly after the events of Link's Awakening. The entire point of the game was Link coming to the understanding that he needed to accept reality, where he was inevitably going to die. I wrote an entire thread about it here. I really suggest that you read all of the thread that I just linked, as it provides a lot of information on the subject.

 

[PalaeoJoe]

I fail to see how OoT "Spawned" SS in terms of story, because obviously SS occurs way before OoT.

 

[hwrdjacob]

I don't mean in game-in real life. SS was made in 2011 and OoT in 1997. While SS does feature some references to other games (such as the Goddess White Sword, for example) it wouldn't exist without OoT. Same reason FS spawned TMC: not in-game, the game listed as spawning them is the original irl game that started the plot: despite their actual chronology, which you can see if you scroll down.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

What I never could understand is the placement of FSA, while I get that it had to have been put somewere after OoT because Ganon was in the game, the thing is FSA was supposed to have the same incarnation of Link in it as from the MC and FS, right? That's a long period of time if you ask me.

 

[hwrdjacob]

What I never could understand is the placement of FSA, while I get that it had to have been put somewhere after OoT because Ganon was in the game, the thing is FSA was supposed to have the same incarnation of Link in it as from the MC and FS, right? That's a long period of time if you ask me.

FS, yes. This is because the Link in FS is directly referred to by name, implying a strong sense of familiarity with the current Hyrule the game take place in. TMC however, almost certainly has a completely different Link. He is not referred to by name, and some may argue even at all in FS or FSA. The backstory of "The boy with little but a sword" has numerous dicrepancies to TMC's plot that it leads one to believe they are two separate events entirely. It does, however, raise the minor question of why the Four Sword is called such by Ezlo in TMC when it supposedly did not aquire that name until the FS backstory. It may have just (Rightly so) been Ezlo referring to it being able to split Link into Four. No one else aside from Ezlo calls the FS by that name, so it may have very well just been a coincidence he called it that. Also, it being a new introduction and a new backstory to what is implied to be a new Ganon decisively places it after TP in the timeline. This is mostly due to the fact that landmarks like lake hylia, death mountain, and the Gerudo Village were absent in ST, as well as the feeling and implication of finality surrounding Ganondorf AND the Master Sword both in TWW: both elements that later appear in ALttP.


I might as well list the different incarnations of Link according to my theory:

Hero of Skies: appears in SS

Hero of Time: appears in OoT and MM, referenced to and is a plot point in TWW and TP, appears as Hero's Shade in TP.

Hero of Winds: appears in TWW and PH

Hero of the Spirits: appears in ST

Hero Chosen by the Gods: appears in TP

Hero of the Picori Blade: appears in TMC

The Four who are One: appear in FS and FSA

Hero of the Triforce: appears in ALttP, OoS, OoA, LA, and referenced in ALBW. He is the Link with the most playable appearances, and just beats out the Hero of Time for overall appearances now that ALBW was released. Arguably the most successful Hero, being the only Link aside from the Hero of Skies to wish upon the Triforce. You know, the point of the series 80% of the time.

Hero of Lorule: ALBW

Hero of Hyrule: appears in NESLoZ and Z2AoL

And NO, these are not all official names.

 

[CyberIce2000]

You didn't mention how Ganon escaped the FS (or if you did I didn't quite understand it) and you failed to explain how he ended up being sealed in the Dark World with the full Triforce after he escaped the FS.

cuz lotsa logic is about to go into this

 

[hwrdjacob]

Ok, let me reiterate: Vaati, in his and the Four Sword's first IRL appearance, no less, jailbreaks the FS. How long he took was irrelevent: he was able to do it. If you, like many people, assume that Ganon is more powerful than Vaati in FSA, than he should also be able to do so-possibly even faster-and it could explain the Palace of the Four Sword Dungeon in ALttPGBA, although it is still up in the air for me weather or not it's canon. And it's stated he found the Sacred Realm "Quite by accident" and a direct quote from one of the Maidens reads "Luckily, he couldn't figure out how to return to the Light World...", which also undermines the notion that OoT and the IW are the same, but I have another thread about that. The Ganon of FSA is implied to be, and at the very least never stated not to be, balanced.

Now, I want honesty only. IGNORING "HH is canon" compare the two timelines.

Which has less/smaller inconsistensies within the games themselves, ignoring all outside material aside from manuals? If you say HH, I want you to prove it to me.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

Ok, let me reiterate: Vaati, in his and the Four Sword's first IRL appearance, no less, jailbreaks the FS. How long he took was irrelevent: he was able to do it. If you, like many people, assume that Ganon is more powerful than Vaati in FSA, than he should also be able to do so-possibly even faster-and it could explain the Palace of the Four Sword Dungeon in ALttPGBA, although it is still up in the air for me weather or not it's canon. And it's stated he found the Sacred Realm "Quite by accident" and a direct quote from one of the Maidens reads "Luckily, he couldn't figure out how to return to the Light World...", which also undermines the notion that OoT and the IW are the same, but I have another thread about that. The Ganon of FSA is implied to be, and at the very least never stated not to be, balanced.

Now, I want honesty only. IGNORING "HH is canon" compare the two timelines.

Which has less/smaller inconsistensies within the games themselves, ignoring all outside material aside from manuals? If you say HH, I want you to prove it to me.

So wait your saying FSA, or FS comes before AlttP?

 

[hwrdjacob]

Yes. Look at my timeline in the OP.

 

[DekuNut]

I find your theory interesting. It's been a while since we've seen any Timeline Theories on here (thanks to HH), so I was glad to read through it. Here's what I have to say:
1) While they are sequels, FS and ALBW don't have to come right after their predecessors (MC and ALttP, respectively). I'm not saying they're not, but you're automatically assuming that they are.
2) I read over your last thread before you posted this, and I agree with you on that. It has also been my belief for many years that it is FSA (as you stated). This is one reason why I disagree with HH (and it seems to be the reason you are as well).
3) Why talk about how MC can go anywhere on your timeline when it has to go between TP and FS, which have only one game between them (MC)?
4) Just because you can't choose your name in FSA doesn't mean familiarity. What id people used a different name when they played FS? And, if so, why are you able to choose your character's name in MM, OoX, PH, and ALttP?
5)

As for the placement of FS, the intro heavily implies it is a direct sequel to FS

It's a sequel to itself? Very interesting. How would it manage that?

 

[hwrdjacob]

1: I don't imply ALBW happens immediately after ALttP. Quite the contrary, as OoX and LA occur in the time between the two. Also, I mentioned how TMC is so self contained it could theorectically take place at most any point between SS and FS, which is true. It's just A LOT neater placing it there for multiple reasons. FS is also that way with TMC and FSA, if it werent for the specific mention of Link by name. And I think we can all agree that Link is the canon name, like Red and Blue in Pokemon Red and Blue Versions, unless you can debate a point I'm not seeing. And finally... that should read "As for the placement of FSA, the intro heavily implies it is a direct sequel to FS".

Here's the Timeline again:
-------/WW-PH-ST
SS-OoT
-------\MM-TP-TMC-FS-FSA-ALttP-OoX-LA-ALBW-LoZ-AoL

 

[DekuNut]

1: I don't imply ALBW happens immediately after ALttP. Quite the contrary, as OoX and LA occur in the time between the two.

I meant that you put it immediately after that Link. I see where you're going with your answer though.

Also, I mentioned how TMC is so self contained it could theorectically take place at most any point between SS and FS, which is true. It's just A LOT neater placing it there for multiple reasons. FS is also that way with TMC and FSA, if it werent for the specific mention of Link by name.

I see your point there. I'll concede this argument.

And I think we can all agree that Link is the canon name, like Red and Blue in Pokemon Red and Blue Versions, unless you can debate a point I'm not seeing.

I'm not saying that Link isn't a canon name. I agree with that. All I'm saying is that just because you're not allowed to choose a name doesn't mean that we've seen the Link before. I agree that FS/FSA Link is the same, but that's not very good reasoning for why.

And finally... that should read "As for the placement of FSA, the intro heavily implies it is a direct sequel to FS".

I know. I just had to be that guy XD

 

[hwrdjacob]

Are there any inconsistencies not also present in Nintendo's timeline? My goal is to reach some sort of consensus by 2015.

And just to clarify, I'm not using the inability to name Link as reasoning, but rather, the fact that FSA uses "Link" for the Hero of FS while it uses a generic "Hero" for the boy in the FS manual. Similar to WW and TP with "Hero of Time". It implies familiarity on a level simply unseen outside of direct sequels.