• Welcome to ZD Forums! You must create an account and log in to see and participate in the Shoutbox chat on this main index page.

Reworking the Hylian Knights

Jamie

Till the roof comes off, till the lights go out...
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Gender
trans-pan-demi-ethno-christian-math-autis-genderfluid-cheesecake
I don't mind brainstorming with you, Matt, but I'm not going to do it if you are under the assumption that I'm out to get you. My "list" would preferrably have no Knights(although this is likely near impossible), whether they agree with me or not, as having a lot of current knights undermines the purpose of reworking it. Neither of the 2 knights who I said strongly support these ideas would be on my list. In fact, as I said, one of the knights who would certainly be on my list still (Thareous) is against these ideas. So I don't know where this is all coming from.
 

Emma

The Cassandra
Site Staff
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Location
Vegas
I don't mind brainstorming with you, Matt, but I'm not going to do it if you are under the assumption that I'm out to get you. My "list" would preferrably have no Knights(although this is likely near impossible), whether they agree with me or not, as having a lot of current knights undermines the purpose of reworking it. Neither of the 2 knights who I said strongly support these ideas would be on my list. In fact, as I said, one of the knights who would certainly be on my list still (Thareous) is against these ideas. So I don't know where this is all coming from.
I honestly don't think you should have any say whatsoever in who gets to stay a knight or who doesn't. To be completely honest, you have shown to be completely dedicated to ending the knights no matter what. Even if you think you're being completely unbiased, I don't think you can be. You've constantly made excuses to ignore counter proposals to your idea, right now you claimed that doubting your motives is reason enough to ignore them. Please don't assume I'm that naive. I have been attacked repeatedly over this issue. Every couple times I post in this thread, people in the shoutbox make fun of me. There is not the not-so-subtle insult still sitting on my visitor messages at the moment. I know I've been turned down from moderator positions because one or two people think I'm trouble. And I know if there was a chance to exclude me from these discussions you'd take it. You are in a power position, you have a responsibility to not carry your own prejudices into anything going on. There is absolutely no way you can restart the knights, demote people, and not add all of them back without it looking like you are censoring people you don't agree with. It DOES NOT MATTER how much you claim you are not going to do that. It's what is going to look like and it is how it is going to feel to the people you kick out. Like I said, I'm not naive. I know that if you reboot the knights I don't stand a chance in hell of making the new list. And I have been the most vocal against this irrational campaign to end them. No one has cared the attacks and harassment I've received for opposing this position. I keep being called aggressive and a troublemaker despite how much effort I've put into finding a solution everyone can be happy with. All you can do is make excuses for why it isn't worth your time. If you can't cooperate and discuss this maturely, I think the appropriate thing to do is recuse yourself. You claimed that the stress was causing you problems anyway. Why not leave it to someone else to discuss?
 

Onilink89

Nyanko Sensei
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Location
The Netherlands
We're not getting anywhere arguing about why some of you hate the knights. WE GET IT ALREADY you don't like what you think they are. You've said that over and over, you don't need to repeat it. Can we work on a positive solution? You are not being reasonable. It's clear that many of you just want to kill it. I want it to be left alone. Instead of repeatedly demanding you absolutely get your way, without budging at all, the more honorable thing is to work on a compromise that can solve more problems. That's what I did. I can accept the clan idea as a compromise. So instead of wasting time repeatedly demanding you deserve to get your way, let's work on this idea.

Hate, Repeating, Demanding, Unreasonable, Not budging, Time wasting....oh wow

First of all Matt, i don't hate the HK. I basicly created the HK to begin with. You think i find it fun to wreck something that i have invested so much time and effort into it and make it in vain? Why else would i tried to save HK before?
So yeah, you are kinda right with timewasting though. I have wasted 7 years to make this damn rank to work properly and im still discussing about it today. I completely gave up on it. No compromises, no purges, no new purposes, no new requirement, no new rules...just Finito!

We had something similair when the forum was phpBB, and after BB I suggested to Mases if he could bring it back as a rank but with a bigger purpose. We even gave the freedom of electing and voting for promotion among themselfs, because we thought they were mature enough to handle it. Well we guessed wrong.

And if you find me unreasonable, fine by me. But compared to the current staff, my suggested method is more reasonable. At least i say my true intention but with arguments to back it up. Instead of letting members vote for the removal of a rank that they should not have a saying to begin with. Also have the excuse that "the members voted" so it seems fair and avoid any direct frustrations from members who disapprove. You don't see me saying like Cassandra "the members already voted for the removal so quit nagging". But the difference between me and the normal members who voted is, that im a Noble and i have that privilege. Normal members don't, but in this case the staff allowed it. That said, i think that i don't deserve this ventilation of yours.

Its a forum, there we always be some sort of social status differences in ranks. You think every forum has this psuedo-democracy system or is treated equal? I mean the members should be gratefull to actualy suggest and vote to begin with. The staff could have just voted among themselfs to remove the HK and ignore all protests from members, which was exactly the case of the first two purges. As unfair as it may sound, at least it would have spared more drama by involving the whole forum.

And if you also find me not honorable and demanding? Fine by me. I already gave a solution/suggestion with my arguments of my own and im sticking to that. So yeah, im not budging.
 

Jamie

Till the roof comes off, till the lights go out...
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Gender
trans-pan-demi-ethno-christian-math-autis-genderfluid-cheesecake
If I was dedicated to ending the knights, then I'd be arguing that. I'm not arguing that at all. I haven't ignored the counter proposals, I just haven't given them much thought yet. The clan idea doesn't interest me that much but I'd be interested in seeing it more fleshed out. Just because I wouldn't put you on my list, doesn't mean it has anything to do with your opposition to my ideas. Feel free to believe what you want but don't tell me what I think and believe.

If users are insulting you, please report it to a moderator. The staff team does not allow such things to happen and if you feel someone is attacking you, it will be dealt with properly.
 

Emma

The Cassandra
Site Staff
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Location
Vegas
If I was dedicated to ending the knights, then I'd be arguing that. I'm not arguing that at all. I haven't ignored the counter proposals, I just haven't given them much thought yet. The clan idea doesn't interest me that much but I'd be interested in seeing it more fleshed out. Just because I wouldn't put you on my list, doesn't mean it has anything to do with your opposition to my ideas. Feel free to believe what you want but don't tell me what I think and believe.

If users are insulting you, please report it to a moderator. The staff team does not allow such things to happen and if you feel someone is attacking you, it will be dealt with properly.
I gave you examples of the insults and exactly where they were. So I did report. And I still think you're obsessed with killing the knights because your plan would effectively do that. If they can't get enough replacements, then it's dead, if they get replacements they're going to be people who support your agenda so it's dead. You refuse to talk about what your new critera would be. You're asking us to take your word for it that a reboot is going to fix everything but you won't tell us HOW. We need details to think it's a good plan. Not a "because I said so." And I am serious about the censorship thing and that I know you're intent on keeping me out of it. There's no way you can do it without it looking like that's what you are doing and it ultimately doesn't matter if you don't think you're doing it for that reason because that is what it'll look like and it is the effect it's going to have.

Hate, Repeating, Demanding, Unreasonable, Not budging, Time wasting....oh wow

First of all Matt, i don't hate the HK. I basicly created the HK to begin with. You think i find it fun to wreck something that i have invested so much time and effort into it and make it in vain? Why else would i tried to save HK before?
So yeah, you are kinda right with timewasting though. I have wasted 7 years to make this damn rank to work properly and im still discussing about it today. I completely gave up on it. No compromises, no purges, no new purposes, no new requirement, no new rules...just Finito!

We had something similair when the forum was phpBB, and after BB I suggested to Mases if he could bring it back as a rank but with a bigger purpose. We even gave the freedom of electing and voting for promotion among themselfs, because we thought they were mature enough to handle it. Well we guessed wrong.

And if you find me unreasonable, fine by me. But compared to the current staff, my suggested method is more reasonable. At least i say my true intention but with arguments to back it up. Instead of letting members vote for the removal of a rank that they should not have a saying to begin with. Also have the excuse that "the members voted" so it seems fair and avoid any direct frustrations from members who disapprove. You don't see me saying like Cassandra "the members already voted for the removal so quit nagging". But the difference between me and the normal members who voted is, that im a Noble and i have that privilege. Normal members don't, but in this case the staff allowed it. That said, i think that i don't deserve this ventilation of yours.

Its a forum, there we always be some sort of social status differences in ranks. You think every forum has this psuedo-democracy system or is treated equal? I mean the members should be gratefull to actualy suggest and vote to begin with. The staff could have just voted among themselfs to remove the HK and ignore all protests from members, which was exactly the case of the first two purges. As unfair as it may sound, at least it would have spared more drama by involving the whole forum.

And if you also find me not honorable and demanding? Fine by me. I already gave a solution/suggestion with my arguments of my own and im sticking to that. So yeah, im not budging.

To be completely honest I wasn't referring to you. You were being more reasonable than everyone else in here and I did like how you pointed out how some were obsessed. I actually think you are trying to find something more productive but I don't think the others are making that feasible.
 

Onilink89

Nyanko Sensei
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Location
The Netherlands
To be completely honest I wasn't referring to you. You were being more reasonable than everyone else in here and I did like how you pointed out how some were obsessed. I actually think you are trying to find something more productive but I don't think the others are making that feasible.

GUYS PLEASE! USE QUOTE BUTTON!

Oh god, first Rep now you? Is this the new fashion of creating misunderstanding intentionaly? You cannot blame me that i assumed that it was addressed towards me. I mean its right after my post and i did repeated myself and I am sticking with my opinion.

Look Matt, i don't fully understand the whole concept of these clans. But i did suggested before that if its worth reworking as a rank with a brand new purpose, just don't recycle the name HK and also suggested to rename the HN and give them both straitforeward names. Even copypastad it on the "Official suggestions Thread"

I did saw "groups" in other forums that all had a seprate/custom logo of 20x20 pix beneath to their username. Not exactly a rank, but it did have a different username color. A fan-art group, tech expert, hardcore gamer, anime fanatic ect...

In case of this forum you could add: active member, role model, pokemon expert, zelda expert, zelda theorist, mature debater ect...

I don't know for sure if people mean this by "clans"
 

Jamie

Till the roof comes off, till the lights go out...
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Gender
trans-pan-demi-ethno-christian-math-autis-genderfluid-cheesecake
Matt, just because you think my solution will kill the knights doesn't mean that was my intent. But again, feel free to believe what you want.
 
If the majority of HKs and members think a clan system would be good, why not just do that? Like JC said it could be themed on the elements in Zelda or whatever, if people want to join they can if they don't they don't have to. Even the most ardent HK support here is pushing for that so we might as well do it and end the current HK group with the addition of clans.

As for how they would work, ZU does it so I am sure it is possible with the software here so why not try it?
 

Jamie

Till the roof comes off, till the lights go out...
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Gender
trans-pan-demi-ethno-christian-math-autis-genderfluid-cheesecake
I don't believe a majority would like the HKs to be a clan but I'm open to the idea of polling the users on it. Although we have a poll for everything nowadays.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom