Why All the Hate for Skyward Sword's Bokoblins?

[JuicieJ]

NOTE: This thread is asking why those of you who call SS's Bokoblins bad enemies, not if you don't like them. There's a difference between not liking something and that particular something being bad. Thank you.

This thread is probably way overdue and a bit redundant at this point (and I THINK there might be a similar thread already, but if there is, it's old), but it's something that's been on my mind lately and I'd like to get it out. A lot of people have complained about the Bokoblins in Skyward Sword, claiming that they're bad enemies because they don't attack enough and/or just stand there waiting for you to hit them. I don't get it. Why complain about this? Sure, they don't always attack right off the bat, but since when is that an effective strategy in combat? If you go into a fight flailing away, chances are you're gonna lose.

Look at TP's Bokoblins. They just run up, rear back, and swing. Oh, but wait! During that time period, they leave themselves open for an attack, which is preceded by a brutal beat-down via Link's sword. Same sort of thing goes for WW's Bokoblins, only it's a bit like what the complaints with SS's: they stand there waiting for you to attack. OK, they jump from side to side a bit, but they're still there, right in front of Link, waiting. With no defense. It's as if they think they don't need to guard, or something. In SS, they react to Link's sword position and place a guard to block a potentially incoming attack, which they often succeed at early on in the game. Meanwhile, while they're blocking, guess what? They're not attacking. But that's because they're just waiting on Link to attack, not because they don't wanna get hurt, right? Wrong. They're blocking, meaning they're preventing themselves from getting hit. It's kind of silly to think someone would be attacking and blocking at the same time. Otherwise, it's not gonna take very long for them to attack if you don't attack first. It's about the same length of time as the basic enemies in every other 3D title. And that's another thing. The Bokoblins are basic enemies. It's not like they're supposed to be some of the toughest enemies in the series. They're supposed to be the easier ones, and with them being more advanced and requiring more strategy to take down than their two previous incarnations, I can't see why anyone would complain about them in this game and not in the others. It really doesn't make any sense.

 

[Sydney]

I was definitely not fond of Skyward Sword's rendition of the Bokoblin. I loved that they made you think before you swung, but they were just so annoying to even spend my time trying to defeat them. It's definitely the most overused enemy in that game. The only type of Bokoblin that gave me any trouble were the Technoblins. The rest were a walk in the park. The variation of Bokoblin was also rather pathetic. They really didn't get any more difficult as the game progressed, and that was very saddening.

Yes, they have a great way of defending themselves, but they take forever to attack. They spend at least 2-3 seconds holding their axes back preparing to swing. That's enough time for a "brutal beat-down via Link's sword". I understand that Bokoblin are basic enemies, but my goodness they were worthless. Sure, Twilight Princess had very easy Bokoblin, but so did Skyward Sword. Just because they can defend themselves is not a good excuse to love them. There a plenty of reasons to both hate, and love SS's Bokoblin.

 

[Djinn]

I believe a large part of the dislike for bokoblins comes from the design not the gameplay elements. When they first appeared they were just smaller moblins and did not necessarily styand out in any significant way. But then TP introduced a redesign for them that made them out for be a little more goblinish. This also made them look like a much more traditional enemy for a fantasy setting.

This reminds the player of something menacing and evil but not too terrible in small numbers.

However the SS redesign was not nearly as menacing with the exaggerated features like large round noses and floppy ears.

They looks much less monstrous and almost wacky in a way. Overall less threatening and humorous in most respects. This causes players to almost want to equate them to

I remember being not at all impressed the first time I saw them in the demo in E3 2010. Even then I was hoping that they were some crudely made demo enemy and not a mainstay of the game. It seemed like such a step backward after the design of the bokoblin and the larger Bulblin of TP. It looked like Zelda was no longer taking the enemies seriously and they were reduced to a form of comic relief enemy. This might be fine if they were just one of many enemies that appeared in the game but they were the largest aspect of the enemy forces found on the surface.

 

[A Link In Time]

I'm in agreement with both Djinn and Atticus here. Skyward Sword's Bokoblins not only stumbled in terms of gameplay design but aesthetically as well. They were dumb hollow minions which lacked the scares and even aggression of their predecessors from other games. Regular Bokoblins were a walk in the park, Cursed Bokoblins were no major challenge if you prevented them from leeching onto Link, and Technobolins were the only moderately challenging variation, however, they appeared too little, too late. Even when clumped together in large masses during the Horde battle at game's end, the Bokoblins hardly posed much of a challenge. It would have been infinitely more satisfying if you had to fight Cursed Bokoblins and Technobolins with perhaps some Stalfos intertwined.

Just because they can defend themselves is not a good excuse to love them.

^That said, I do love Skyward Sword's variation of the Stalfos, both regular and warrior. But that's because the skeleton foe not only defends itself but attacks ruthlessly and intelligently. Nintendo definitely decreased the difficulty in fear of alienating players with too steep a difficulty gradient paired with motion controls. Nevertheless it was disappointing to not see heavier enemies along the lines of Iron Knuckles and Darknuts. Instead we received tons and tons of unwarranted Bokoblins throughout.

 

[JuicieJ]

I'm in agreement with both Djinn and Atticus here. Skyward Sword's Bokoblins not only stumbled in terms of gameplay design but aesthetically as well. They were dumb hollow minions which lacked the scares and even aggression of their predecessors from other games. Regular Bokoblins were a walk in the park, Cursed Bokoblins were no major challenge if you prevented them from leeching onto Link, and Technobolins were the only moderately challenging variation, however, they appeared too little, too late. Even when clumped together in large masses during the Horde battle at game's end, the Bokoblins hardly posed much of a challenge. It would have been infinitely more satisfying if you had to fight Cursed Bokoblins and Technobolins with perhaps some Stalfos intertwined.

I clearly outlined that both WW and TP's Bokoblins had worse design and that Bokoblins are basic enemies, meaning they're not supposed to be hard. That's one of the things I'm miffed about. People act like they should have been super tough encounters in which we had to fight to stay alive. That's totally not the case. They're introductory enemies that are designed to introduce you to different mechanics of the swordplay so that you can use those skills later in the game. They're pretty much target practice enemies, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's not like they're bosses.

I believe a large part of the dislike for bokoblins comes from the design not the gameplay elements. When they first appeared they were just smaller moblins and did not necessarily styand out in any significant way. But then TP introduced a redesign for them that made them out for be a little more goblinish. This also made them look like a much more traditional enemy for a fantasy setting.
This reminds the player of something menacing and evil but not too terrible in small numbers.

However the SS redesign was not nearly as menacing with the exaggerated features like large round noses and floppy ears.
They looks much less monstrous and almost wacky in a way. Overall less threatening and humorous in most respects. This causes players to almost want to equate them to

I remember being not at all impressed the first time I saw them in the demo in E3 2010. Even then I was hoping that they were some crudely made demo enemy and not a mainstay of the game. It seemed like such a step backward after the design of the bokoblin and the larger Bulblin of TP. It looked like Zelda was no longer taking the enemies seriously and they were reduced to a form of comic relief enemy. This might be fine if they were just one of many enemies that appeared in the game but they were the largest aspect of the enemy forces found on the surface.

I did notice people's beef with their looks, and I have to say I can't take that very seriously. I mean... if you're going to use that as a basis for them being bad enemies, you probably have some pretty shallow logic.

 

[A Link In Time]

I clearly outlined that both WW and TP's Bokoblins had worse design and that Bokoblins are basic enemies, meaning they're not supposed to be hard. That's one of the things I'm miffed about. People act like they should have been super tough encounters in which we had to fight to stay alive. That's totally not the case. They're introductory enemies that are designed to introduce you to different mechanics of the swordplay so that you can use those skills later in the game. They're pretty much target practice enemies, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's not like they're bosses.

Stating that the particular design of one enemy is superior from one game to another is highly subjective and I realize that perhaps my segment was an unneeded derivative of discussion. That said, while the Bokoblins certainly are basic enemies they encompass a large role in Skyward Sword than previous installments. Ghirahim seemed to have less minions at his disposal than Ganondorf which led to his over reliance on this particular breed of creature. They're certainly not bosses but more than introductory practice enemies. The Bokoblin Horde encounter at game's end serves to prove this point. Couldn't we have had some more Stalfos Warriors instead?

 

[DeletedUser9]

I remember being not at all impressed the first time I saw them in the demo in E3 2010. Even then I was hoping that they were some crudely made demo enemy and not a mainstay of the game. It seemed like such a step backward after the design of the bokoblin and the larger Bulblin of TP. It looked like Zelda was no longer taking the enemies seriously and they were reduced to a form of comic relief enemy. This might be fine if they were just one of many enemies that appeared in the game but they were the largest aspect of the enemy forces found on the surface.

I'll dig into the rest of the topic at a later time, but I wanted to comment on this... is that really an accurate statement considering characters like Demise are present in the game? Demise looks almost out of place in a Zelda game. I don't know if you meant this as a prerelease opinion only or not, but way I figure it Zelda's often had games with sillier designs, so I don't see why this would be a surprise or a bad thing in any sense. Furthermore, the only difference between the Bokoblins in The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess is the artstyle and realism; it's basically the same design and it's not really derivative of the Moblin like you said.

 

[JuicieJ]

Stating that the particular design of one enemy is superior from one game to another is highly subjective and I realize that perhaps my segment was an unneeded derivative of discussion. That said, while the Bokoblins certainly are basic enemies they encompass a large role in Skyward Sword than previous installments. Ghirahim seemed to have less minions at his disposal than Ganondorf which led to his over reliance on this particular breed of creature. They're certainly not bosses but more than introductory practice enemies. The Bokoblin Horde encounter at game's end serves to prove this point. Couldn't we have had some more Stalfos Warriors instead?

A horde of Stalfos Warriors while going down a giant slope to get to Ghirahim... Doesn't really sound that appealing to me. Sounds like an incredibly tedious task that would take way too long to complete. There were also different things done with the Bokoblins in that fight, such as numerous ones carrying bombs, some archers, a couple that carried Monster Horns and ran away (which you had to defeat in order for more to not becalled), and a new type of Bokoblin that charged at you and took a bit of a beating to kill. I don't see the problem in using them as a buildup to Ghirahim, especially with Moblins and Stalfos involved.

 

[Ventus]

Not sure if I should post this, since it has basically been said time and time again, but the Bokoblins of SS are far more irritating than any previous Bokoblin. Basic enemy or not, they shouldn't be both a cakewalk and the worst nightmare of any player by way of their attack/defense mechanisms, or if they SHOULD, the way they're presented in Skyward isn't the way to go at least in my opinion.

Blocking is okay if you're going to attack rather frequently as well. As ALIT mentioned, the Stalfos Warriors managed to defend themselves quite often, which is admirable, but what makes that enemy shine is that they attack as frequently if not more as they spend time defending.

The Bokoblin attack/defend methods showed me that SS' enemies weren't of the type to kill Link, but rather to stall him. I suppose this makes sense up until after you defeat Ghirahim I; the Debsters doesn't really have a care in the world for Link but only for Her 'Highness' Selda. Afterwards, though, the stalling only increases and increases. They don't have a drive to rid the Surface of Link's existence, they're not really much of an enemy...they're just a stalling piece of dirt. This is especially evident in The Horde battle, where I believe Ghirahim says something about stalling Link so that the ritual can be complete.

Previous Bokoblins at least wanted to kill Link, which is what monsters typically do (unless they're friendlies)..

 

[JuicieJ]

Not sure if I should post this, since it has basically been said time and time again, but the Bokoblins of SS are far more irritating than any previous Bokoblin. Basic enemy or not, they shouldn't be both a cakewalk and the worst nightmare of any player by way of their attack/defense mechanisms, or if they SHOULD, the way they're presented in Skyward isn't the way to go at least in my opinion.

Blocking is okay if you're going to attack rather frequently as well. As ALIT mentioned, the Stalfos Warriors managed to defend themselves quite often, which is admirable, but what makes that enemy shine is that they attack as frequently if not more as they spend time defending.

The Bokoblin attack/defend methods showed me that SS' enemies weren't of the type to kill Link, but rather to stall him. I suppose this makes sense up until after you defeat Ghirahim I; the Debsters doesn't really have a care in the world for Link but only for Her 'Highness' Selda. Afterwards, though, the stalling only increases and increases. They don't have a drive to rid the Surface of Link's existence, they're not really much of an enemy...they're just a stalling piece of dirt. This is especially evident in The Horde battle, where I believe Ghirahim says something about stalling Link so that the ritual can be complete.

Previous Bokoblins at least wanted to kill Link, which is what monsters typically do (unless they're friendlies)..

So you conveniently ignored my statements of how they're often not attacking due to us attacking them? Y'know, like pretty much any enemy in Zelda?

All enemies are for stalling. That's the whole point. They're a barrier in-between Link and his intended goal. What other purpose do you think they exist for? Just for teh lulz? I can assure you that's not Nintendo's intention. Enemies have always been for stalling and they always will be. Especially the basic ones (who now act like the more complex ones from previous titles).

 

[Terminus]

I wasn't a huge fan of them, just because they never took the initiative like the TP Bulbins. Something like 80% of the time Bokoblins were defending, 10% of the time they were preparing to attack, and the remaining 10% they actually attacked. They leave such an opening I almost never have a shield on.

So you conveniently ignored my statements of how they're often not attacking due to us attacking them? Y'know, like pretty much any enemy in Zelda?

All enemies are for stalling. That's the whole point. They're a barrier in-between Link and his intended goal. What other purpose do you think they exist for? Just for teh lulz? I can assure you that's not Nintendo's intention. Enemies have always been for stalling and they always will be. Especially the basic ones (who now act like the more complex ones from previous titles).

Ultimately there is a point where the stalling becomes asinine.

 

[JuicieJ]

I wasn't a huge fan of them, just because they never took the initiative like the TP Bulbins. Something like 80% of the time Bokoblins were defending, 10% of the time they were preparing to attack, and the remaining 10% they actually attacked. They leave such an opening I almost never have a shield on.

The Bokoblins do attack. I don't see why people say they don't. They attack just as frequently as past enemies. I covered this in the OP.

Ultimately there is a point where the stalling becomes asinine.

Yeah, and that would be Zelda II's combat.

 

[Terminus]

The Bokoblins do attack. I don't see why people say they don't. They attack just as frequently as past enemies. I covered this in the OP.

What I meant is they hold their ax, club, sword, what have you behind their head for several seconds, leaving a huge opening that really cancels out any attacking.

 

[JuicieJ]

What I meant is they hold their ax, club, sword, what have you behind their head for several seconds, leaving a huge opening that really cancels out any attacking.

They don't hold their weapons behind their heads until you get the True Master Sword, and that's only the most basic of the Bokoblins.

 

[Terminus]

They don't hold their weapons behind their heads until you get the True Master Sword, and that's only the most basic of the Bokoblins.

i distinctly remember in the Eldin region if I waited long enough, they'd draw their club back and hold it for a few seconds. I just played this yesterday, so my memory's fresh.