GX Timeline Theory

[Garo]

A previous Ganon? There are no multiple Ganons. If FSA is on the main canon, it'd be the OoT one, as he's described as a boy who grew up in the desert and was corrupted over time. That's a very accurate description of the Ganondorf that would have grown up in the Gerudo Desert. Plus we're told that by a Gerudo woman. She would have known the history of her people.

It isn't the OoT Ganon, though. The Ganon in FSA is described as being exiled by his tribe for exploring the desert pyramid, and thus becoming a desert nomad. Ganondorf in OoT, however, was not exiled and remained - if not King - a high ranking member, hence his presence in Hyrule Castle as a peace negotiator with the King. In addition to this Ganon, the Red maiden mentions hearing of a Ganondorf of the Gerudo before - the OoT Ganondorf. Two Ganons.

We haven't gotten Skyward Sword yet and you're placing a game before it? That's pretty dangerous. The only thing we can say is that it comes before OoT. And what I'm saying with references is that many games have made references to it to show where they are placed on the canon, such as WW, MM (mentioning Link waging battles across time and going on a personal mission), and TP. And those came after. If there's gonna be something before something as important as OoT, surely there'd be origins in it. Which is what they're doing in SS. I know I can't exacly prove this 100%, but there's really nothing to suggest that it goes there. Using negative evidence (almost always) isn't going to win arguments, especially something like you're suggesting. I'm not downing on your opinion, I'm just saying it's not a sound argument. So don't take me the wrong way.

Skyward Sword is the story of the creation of the Master Sword. Minish Cap has no reference to the Master Sword, and given the Master Sword's sanctity and importance to the Hyrule Royal Family later, it is unlikely that the Hyrule Royal Family would ignore the Master Sword in deference to the Picori Sword, which has none of the sanctity that the Master Sword does. Thus, it stands to reason that Skyward Sword takes place AFTER The Minish Cap, or at the very least in a Hyrule that has no Master Sword.

 

[JuicieJ]

It isn't the OoT Ganon, though. The Ganon in FSA is described as being exiled by his tribe for exploring the desert pyramid, and thus becoming a desert nomad. Ganondorf in OoT, however, was not exiled and remained - if not King - a high ranking member, hence his presence in Hyrule Castle as a peace negotiator with the King. In addition to this Ganon, the Red maiden mentions hearing of a Ganondorf of the Gerudo before - the OoT Ganondorf. Two Ganons.

That's the thing, anyone that went into that pyramid was instantly an outcast, as it was forbidden. The evil power was locked away for a reason. Not just to do it for fun. Of course he would have become a nomad. It makes perfect sense. Whatever thing your talking about with the Red Maiden, however, I'm confused on exactly what you mean, as you didn't elaborate very well. A direct quote would help me better.

Skyward Sword is the story of the creation of the Master Sword. Minish Cap has no reference to the Master Sword, and given the Master Sword's sanctity and importance to the Hyrule Royal Family later, it is unlikely that the Hyrule Royal Family would ignore the Master Sword in deference to the Picori Sword, which has none of the sanctity that the Master Sword does. Thus, it stands to reason that Skyward Sword takes place AFTER The Minish Cap, or at the very least in a Hyrule that has no Master Sword.

Still just simple supposition with no actual evidence. Again, it's your opinion, but there's not enough there to truly back it up. I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong, I'm just saying that isn't enough to prove it.

 

[master of loz]

Thank you so much this cleared the whole timeline up for me

 

[JuicieJ]

Thank you so much this cleared the whole timeline up for me

You do realize it has numerous flaws, right? Like the OoX. Twinrova died on the AT, so the OoX can't take place after they died. They were still alive on the CT, however, leaving that open. Another flaw is ALttP (and anything) coming before WW. Not possible due to the story told at the very beginning. That he was sealed and then one day broke out. If ALttP is to take place before WW, then OoT has to be the Seal War, which it isn't. Not anymore, anyway. Nintendo scrapped that some time ago. And LA is confirmed by the makers of the game to be a direct sequel to ALttP, not come generations after. Not saying this guy's an idiot, or anything, but his AT is seriously inaccurate and completely contradictory.

 

[master of loz]

You do realize it has numerous flaws, right? Like the OoX. Twinrova died on the AT, so the OoX can't take place after they died. They were still alive on the CT, however, leaving that open. Another flaw is ALttP (and anything) coming before WW. Not possible due to the story told at the very beginning. That he was sealed and then one day broke out. If ALttP is to take place before WW, then OoT has to be the Seal War, which it isn't. Not anymore, anyway. Nintendo scrapped that some time ago. And LA is confirmed by the makers of the game to be a direct sequel to ALttP, not come generations after. Not saying this guy's an idiot, or anything, but his AT is seriously inaccurate and completely contradictory.

I do but i still wanted a more straghit forward answer which he did provide

 

[JuicieJ]

I do but i still wanted a more strait forward answer which he did provide

How was my answer not straightforward? I provided solid evidence (and basically proof) as to why many of the things he said can't be true.

 

[master of loz]

Idk i guess i just liked the fact that he went into more detail

 

[JuicieJ]

Idk i guess i just liked the fact that he went into more detail

More detail doesn't always mean more accurate. Sometimes the simple points debunk everything said. I could have gone deeper, believe me, but I didn't feel like doing all the typing or cause an overkill.

 

[master of loz]

ok your probably right all i ment is that i understood his more but your probably right

 

[JuicieJ]

ok your probably right all i ment is that i understood his more but your probably right

Oh, ok, I see what you're saying now. Yeah, I was a bit off on what you meant exactly. XD

 

[master of loz]

ok well i just read his thing again and i suppose your right there are a lot of flaws

 

[Pen]

I've got just one of criticism:

First of all, the introduction of Wind Waker STRONGLY suggests that it is a direct sequel to the adult ending of OoT. The wording makes it sound like there are no Link's and no Ganon(dorf)'s between the two, and the description of events very obviously fits the events of OoT.

At the end of WW prologue it says: "This is but one of the legends of which people speak."

 

[JuicieJ]

At the end of WW prologue it says: "This is but one of the legends of which people speak."

Good point, but with the way it's described, it highly suggests that nothing happened. I mean, Link went back to his own time at the end of OoT, which is why there was no Hero to stop Ganon when he broke out. If there's no Hero at that point, what makes you say there was one before? It wouldn't be possible, as Link went back. Now, WW Link had no connection, but the gods had no other chioce but to do what they did (surely they made a reincarnation to stop Ganondorf), as Ganondorf had gotten above the surface of the Great Sea. (I've seen Axle describe a way in which there could be a Link in-between OoT and WW, but the first part of it is flawed in that he says Link was sent back through actual time-travel, which isn't the case, as Link would have landed as an adult. The fact that he landed as a child is proof that it was still the reversing of time, just that there was a split by still being somewhat sent back.)

 

[Garo]

That's the thing, anyone that went into that pyramid was instantly an outcast, as it was forbidden. The evil power was locked away for a reason. Not just to do it for fun. Of course he would have become a nomad. It makes perfect sense. Whatever thing your talking about with the Red Maiden, however, I'm confused on exactly what you mean, as you didn't elaborate very well. A direct quote would help me better.

Looks like it was Zelda who said it, not the Red maiden, but:

"Ganon... this beast was once
of the Gerudo... Once human.
He was called Ganondorf!

King of Darkness, ancient
demon reborn. The wielder
of the trident!!"

(bold emphasis added)

The King of Darkness is evidently an "ancient evil", which is to say, an evil from the past. That he is reborn furthers this idea that they are referring to the Ganondorf seen in Ocarina.

HOWEVER. Given that this Ganondorf has a radically different backstory - where the Gerudo claim he was a criminal for the majority of his life and was eventually exiled for entering the pyramid (compare to the Ocarina version of Ganondorf who was still revered among the Gerudo (they still call him the great Ganondorf in the adult time period) when he rose to power) - it stands to reason that this is a NEW Ganondorf, be it a reincarnation of the previous Ganondorf or a new individual all together, but either way, a new body, a new threat - not the same Ganondorf as in Ocarina of Time.

Still just simple supposition with no actual evidence. Again, it's your opinion, but there's not enough there to truly back it up. I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong, I'm just saying that isn't enough to prove it.

I have never claimed that it is anything more than supposition. Minish Cap provides no "actual evidence" as to its placement, but it must be placed as you cannot ignore any pieces to a puzzle. Thus we must rely on reason rather than cold fact in order to place it. There is nothing that says it cannot be placed there, and it logically fits there. It may logically fit elsewhere as well, but I see my own reasoning as the most likely outcome.

 

[Garo]

I see what you're saying. But they still could have called him a criminal because their view of him shifted after he stole the Trident. When someone turns on you, you're going to refer to him/her as a bad person in everything. And, even though you're not intending it, this is actually some pretty solid evidence for it being a separate/alternate canon. I mean, the Triforce is never mentioned in the FSS.

I would love for it to be an alternate legend, to be honest. But it seals a really gaping hole in the timeline by bringing a new Ganon into play - the ostensible death of Ganon at the end of Twilight Princess, yet his reemergence trapped in the Sacred Realm in A Link to the Past. Thus I find it hard to place it outside of the current timeline with the games we currently have available. If it is an alternate legend (which would be really cool, a nice fusion of a timeline and literal legend theory), there is plenty of room for a full game between TP and ALttP, but we don't have that yet. So I place FS/FSA in the hole to put a tenuous, not perfect, but solid, seal on that hole.

This discussion really belongs in the Multiple Ganons thread though, so I'm moving these posts there.

As a note to future people entering this thread, go read the discussion in that thread (starts here). The Multiple Ganons debate is relevant to the placing of FS/FSA within this Timeline.