Thank you for proving a point there dan.
All in a days work pal.
Thank you for proving a point there dan.
I didn't mean to start a mod vote and let me make it clear I'm not actually trying to be a mod but seeing as the actual mod's cba with doing their job someone has to do something right?
Anyway. I actually suggest that when people voice concerns about a) the way the forum is being moderated b) the way some people behave c) serious actual concerns about possible scenarios that could arise, ESPECIALLY involving children and other vulnerable members of the community, they shouldn't be the ones who end up getting told off. Different people have different concerns and I'm by no means saying that my hands are clean in this regard but just because someones opinion goes against the 'powers that be' doesn't mean they deserve to be like, completely disregarded.
it is not for other members to tell this member they should be offended by it or that the joke should not have been made.
I think said member was more offended over the fact that such things can happen without staff intervention than about the joke itself.In regards to the recent episode of drama in the shoutbox regarding a joke that some members (Yes you know who you are I'm not going to name you) deemed inappropriate for another member. It is down to personal responsibility whether you decide to use these forums and for the parents of any minors to allow their children on these forums and expose them to the content here.
We do not tolerate bullying at ZD or should not anyway and if a member feels they are being the target of bullying they can report the issue. However when a member has a joke made to them and they do not feel it was targeting them or threatening them, it is not for other members to tell this member they should be offended by it or that the joke should not have been made.
I think said member was more offended over the fact that such things can happen without staff intervention than about the joke itself.
People always complain about the mods. They never do enough, they are too strict, too laid back, too arrogant, too harsh. There is always something to complain about and if you search long enough, you're going to find something. And yes the mods have been horrible in the past. That's no secret. But mods are also human beings. They're no super humans or above any law.
What if the kids to understand said sexual references or are confused and ask about it?Not punishing people left and right doesn't mean the mods are not doing their jobs. Far from it. Punishment should be the absolute last resort. The worst chapters in ZD history have been caused by mods being too quick to punish, too eager to be excessively politically correct. Every single time mods got it in their head that they needed to do that, they started treating the community as prison full of disposable convicts with no humanity that needed to be controlled and contained, rather than actual human beings with feelings. They began to see people as the enemy. It happens every time that it's decided that we have to "reign things in". Having no one say naughty words, never say an uncomfortable opinion, or never criticize anyone won't create a safe, healthy environment for socialization. It would create an atmosphere of fear. People would be constantly afraid the next thing they say could get them brutalized. The most vulnerable people who are suffering the worst already, would be hurt the most by this atmosphere. This isn't an idea to protect people, it's an attempt to control them.
This never, ever has been a good idea and it ended in disaster every time it has been attempted. Both on ZD and everywhere else on the planet. We're not here to be everyone's parent, we're not a nanny, we're not a crutch for lazy parents to not do their job. We're here to be a community. That doesn't always mean everyone always agrees. And they shouldn't either be made to or made to shut up if they don't. We aren't babysitters that are a substitute for actual parenting. We do have the language filter. That takes care of that. As for sexual references, children are not going to understand them. Look at the typical Disney movie. They have innuendo in them all the time and the kids never get it, it's there for the parents and older audiences. The one with a problem with them, is the older people who feel offended by it. But that doesn't mean anything. Kids won't understand. You want to explain it to them and tell them why something should offend them? Go right ahead. That'll convince everyone it's "for the children."
What if the kids to understand said sexual references or are confused and ask about it?
I want to follow this line of thought.We do not tolerate bullying at ZD or should not anyway and if a member feels they are being the target of bullying they can report the issue. However when a member has a joke made to them and they do not feel it was targeting them or threatening them, it is not for other members to tell this member they should be offended by it or that the joke should not have been made.
You went on for quite a while about how people who have no ability to be offended by these things should be offended by it. So... there's that.You mean this exact thing which absolutely nobody, at any point in that discussion, actually said or did? Right.
One thing that people need to understand that is that power corrupts. If we are so casual with this kind of censorship, otherwise good people will do terrible things, and feel like they're helping when they do it. We have seen this in the past on ZD with former friends becoming bitter enemies over how the power was used.People always complain about the mods. They never do enough, they are too strict, too laid back, too arrogant, too harsh. There is always something to complain about and if you search long enough, you're going to find something. And yes the mods have been horrible in the past. That's no secret. But mods are also human beings. They're no super humans or above any law.
I don't think it's wrong to be critical of the mods. Let's just admit it, the mods we have right now aren't incredibly active. I'm not saying the mods should be handing out infractions left and right, but I think maybe getting somebody whose activity is a little more stable and is willing to get more involved with the community isn't a bad idea. I think it would help keep things like what happened today from getting out of control if people felt like there was somebody there who was in a mod position who could talk through why certain actions are or aren't taken depending on the circumstances (some things need to be kept private). A lot of good has happened on the forum lately, but I don't think that means that there still isn't room for improvement. I think we should consider adding a mod who will be more active, I don't see how it could harm anything and it could do a lot of good and it could give people peace of mind knowing that there is somebody there who has the powers that a mod has in case those powers need to be used.People always complain about the mods. They never do enough, they are too strict, too laid back, too arrogant, too harsh. There is always something to complain about and if you search long enough, you're going to find something. And yes the mods have been horrible in the past. That's no secret. But mods are also human beings. They're no super humans or above any law.
Where did I say people can't be critical? The thing I said is that there is ALWAYS something to complain about even if you search long enough. People should be critical. If a mod is doing the wrong things, they deserve to be called out for that. Like I said no mod is above any law. We have seen this often in the past and we will see it in the future because mods are always needed unless you get rid off the forums. And about the current situation; yes we're understaffed so another mod won't be a bad thing and if the merge is going to happen, we definitely need more mods for sure.I don't think it's wrong to be critical of the mods. Let's just admit it, the mods we have right now aren't incredibly active. I'm not saying the mods should be handing out infractions left and right, but I think maybe getting somebody whose activity is a little more stable and is willing to get more involved with the community isn't a bad idea. I think it would help keep things like what happened today from getting out of control if people felt like there was somebody there who was in a mod position who could talk through why certain actions are or aren't taken depending on the circumstances (some things need to be kept private). A lot of good has happened on the forum lately, but I don't think that means that there still isn't room for improvement. I think we should consider adding a mod who will be more active, I don't see how it could harm anything and it could do a lot of good and it could give people peace of mind knowing that there is somebody there who has the powers that a mod has in case those powers need to be used.
Going on what I said, the criticism of mods is absolutely essential. It is very, VERY easy to be tempted by the power. Being constantly open to criticism is an effective buffer against that temptation. Accountability means that the idea of abusing the powers is less tempting because it won't be so easily gotten away with. Even the nicest of people need to be open to criticism. Even wrong criticism can bring up a problem. People wanting extra control over what people say, is a problem. It has to be dealt with through reason. It's okay to be upset about criticism. Nothing wrong with that. But it's very wrong to try to tell people they can't criticize. Which is what has happened on ZD before.Where did I say people can't be critical? The thing I said is that there is ALWAYS something to complain about even if you search long enough. People should be critical. If a mod is doing the wrong things, they deserve to be called out for that. Like I said no mod is above any law. We have seen this often in the past and we will see it in the future because mods are always needed unless you get rid off the forums. And about the current situation; yes we're understaffed so another mod won't be a bad thing and if the merge is going to happen, we definitely need more mods for sure.