Interview:Iwata Asks: Ocarina of Time 3D (Original Development Staff - Part 1)

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Iwata Asks: Ocarina of Time 3D (Original Development Staff - Part 1)

Date

June 25, 2011

Interviewee

Interviewer

Description

Iwata takes us behind-the-scenes of the development of the 1998 N64 game, with staff reactions to the 2011 remake.

Source

[1]

The Game that Changed Destinies

Iwata: Thank you for joining me today.
Everyone: We're glad to be here.
Iwata: Today, I have gathered the core development staff for the Nintendo 64 game The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, which was first released (in Japan) in November of 1998. Please introduce yourselves, telling us what you did back then.
Osawa: Okay. I'm Osawa from the Special-Planning & Development Department. When development of The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time began, they called me in to the Entertainment Analysis & Development Division (EAD) and put me to work. This project had a lot of directors, but I was the oldest, so I was a sort of general director.
Iwata: About how many directors were there?
Osawa: Five altogether. I listened to each director's opinion and coordinated them, saying, "Alright, alright, I get it. This is what we'll do." I also worked on the story and script.
Koizumi: I'm Koizumi from the Tokyo Software Development Department. Recently, I've been making the Super Mario Galaxy series and Flipnote Studio in Tokyo, but when I try to remember when I was in Kyoto and making 3D action games one after the other - from Super Mario 64 to The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - I was working on so many different things that I can't really remember what I did. About how many directors were there?
Iwata: You were involved in so many things that you can't sum them up.
Koizumi: Right. I was involved with environment construction for 3D games, camera design, making the player-character Link, making items, and a little with event-related matters.
Kawagoe: I'm Kawagoe from the Software Development & Design Department. I was originally in charge of camera programming for Super Mario 64, so they brought me in to The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time project so I could make use of that know-how.
Iwata: At the time, you were in charge of camera programming?
Kawagoe: Yes. But SRD, which Iwawaki-san belongs to, was in charge of camera programming for The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, so I participated as an advisor. However, Osawa-san's script was starting to become huge, so lots of cut scenes were necessary.
Iwata: At first, you were an advisor, but suddenly you were in deep.
Kawagoe: Yes. I became involved in the development of a tool for making the cut scenes, and before I knew it, I was working on storyboards and in charge of the movie parts.
Iwata: Currently, you mainly lend your support whenever the need for a cut scene arises somewhere in-house and a request goes to you at the movie production group. Could we say that The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time was the game that started your involvement in such work?
Kawagoe: Yes. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time was the first time I clearly operated as a member of movie production.
Iwata: So Osawa-san's huge script changed your destiny.
Kawagoe: That's exactly right! (laughs)
Osawa: Oh, really?
Kawagoe: Yeah! (laughs)
Iwata: Looking back, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time was a project that determined the future work of a lot of people.
Osawa: That's right. Several people were like that.
Aonuma: Yep, yep. (laughs)
Iwata: Aonuma-san, you're a prime example of someone whose fate the game determined. (laughs)
Aonuma: Uh-huh. That's very true! (laughs)
Iwata: Would you please introduce yourself?
Aonuma: I'm Aonuma from EAD. I am producer of The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D and The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, which is still under development for the Wii console, but the first game in the series that I worked on was The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time for the Nintendo 64 system.
Iwata: Today, your name is always mentioned in the same breath as The Legend of Zelda, but before then, you did a variety of work.
Aonuma: Yes.
Iwata: About the time you had just joined the company, we worked together.
Aonuma: That's right! (laughs) Unfortunately, though, the game we made together never made it out into the world. I spent a lot of time developing games with external companies. But I really wanted to develop inside Nintendo. I pestered Miyamoto-san about it and he said, "We don't have enough people for The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, so come on in for a spell." Of those of us here today, I joined the project last.
Iwata: You didn't participate early on in development?
Aonuma: No. When I joined, the script was somewhat established, and they were rapidly turning out the content. I designed a total of six early and mid-stage dungeons, most of the enemy characters, and enemy and boss battles.
Kawagoe: You also drew storyboards.
Aonuma: Oh, that's right. Back then, anyone who could draw storyboards was drawing them.
Osawa: Me, too! (laughs)
Iwata: The boundaries between different jobs were vague back then. Most of the time, if you noticed something that needed to be done, you did it yourself.
Aonuma: That's right. I doubt many of the staff who were involved with The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - not just those of us here today - could say clearly where their work began and where it ended.
Kawagoe: For today's "Iwata Asks," I pulled out some old materials and was reminded, "I even drew up specs like this!" (laughs)
Iwata: You were surprised at yourself. (laughs)
Kawagoe: Yeah! (laughs) I was surprised at the breadth of tasks I was involved in.
Iwata: Iwawaki-san, if you would, please?
Iwawaki: I'm Iwawaki in charge of main programming at SRD. Like Aonuma-san, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time was my first game in the series.
Iwata: What were you working on until then?
Iwawaki: I had been working on the Super Mario Bros. series for quite a while. I had worked for some time with Koizumi-san on Super Mario 64, so that's how I came to work on The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time.
Aonuma: For a long time, all we did was cause you trouble with the most impossible demands.
Iwawaki: No, not at all! (laughs)
Aonuma: You played an important role in realising all the ideas we came up with. That must have been hard.
Iwawaki: No...
Iwata: You made irrational demands?
Iwawaki: Well, you might say that. (laughs)
Iwata: So not just the boss specs, but most of the demands that Aonuma-san came up with were irrational.
Aonuma: They were! (laughs)
Koizumi: No, I had been working with Iwawaki-san all the way from Super Mario 64 to The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, so when it comes to irrational demands, I don't lose to Aonuma-san! (laughs)
Everyone: (laughs)

The Legend of Zelda with Chanbara-style Action

Iwata: We just talked about how Koizumi-san made lots of irrational demands all the way from Super Mario 64 to The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, but to go back to the beginning, Super Mario Bros. came out (in Japan) in September of 1985 and The Legend of Zelda came out immediately afterward in February 1986. I feel like Super Mario Bros. and The Legend of Zelda are often made as a pair. The challenge with the Nintendo 64 system was to turn those two titles into 3D. Koizumi-san, I think you were the person closest to Miyamoto-san during development then. What was on your mind?
Koizumi: I do think they are often made in pairs. They both fell into the category of “3D open-world action games.” I didn’t really see the difference between them.
Iwata: If you were to state the difference, it would be how The Legend of Zelda is the one you don’t press a button to jump in.
Koizumi: Even when it comes to that, you had to press a button to jump when we first started making The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time.
Iwata: At first, it didn’t have auto jump.
Koizumi: That’s right. There was no way we could take jumping out of a Super Mario. Bros. game, but when we actually tried making Super Mario 64, the action hurdle was a high one. For example, if you tried to beat an enemy in front of you, the axes weren’t aligned, so it was hard.
Iwata: Yes, that’s right. When I was at HAL Laboratory thinking about how we could make the Kirby series for the Nintendo 64 system, we wrestled with that.
Koizumi: Oh, yes. (laughs) As we were making Super Mario 64, we were thinking about The Legend of Zelda the whole time, and started talking about decreasing the action element in The Legend of Zelda and increasing the puzzle elements.
Iwata: You were thinking about them both at the same time.
Koizumi: Yes. Even as I was making Super Mario 64, I would write down memos of what I wanted to achieve with The Legend of Zelda. Then when I started making The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, I whipped out those memos and consulted them.
Iwata: What kinds of things had you written down?
Koizumi: All kinds of things, like battles using a sword and battling lots of enemies. The Super Mario 64 project had passed by incredibly quickly, so a lot that I wanted had gone undone and I wanted to pour all those leftover ideas into The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time.
Iwata: In the end, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time eventually became a massive project that mobilised nearly everyone who belonged to EAD at that time, but how many people did you start with?
Koizumi: Three.
Osawa: Before Koizumi-san joined, (Jin) Ikeda-san and I started it just the two of us!
Koizumi: Oh, is that so?
Osawa: Koizumi-san, you were still working on Super Mario 64 then, weren’t you?
Iwata: Oh, so you joined after finishing Super Mario 64.
Koizumi: Yes, that’s right.
Iwata: Osawa-san, how did you become involved in development of The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time?
Osawa: I was asked if I would be the director and I immediately replied yes. I had no idea it would turn into such a colossal task! (laughs)
Iwata: I suppose you just replied casually. (laughs)
Osawa: But it’s definitely worth it, right?
Iwata: Yes, for sure.
Osawa: Since I was working at Nintendo, The Legend of Zelda was a title I wanted to work on at least once. Luckily, that opportunity had come along, so I put my hand right up. But before we became involved, (Takao) Shimizu-san made a chanbara (sword fighting) demo video.
Aonuma: Oh, that’s right. If I remember correctly, the demo video we showed at the E3 in 1996.
Osawa: Right. But Shimizu-san became involved with other work, so he said, “The rest is up to you!”
Iwata: Was that other work Star Fox 64?
Osawa: Yeah. So I took it over, and Shimizu-san told me some things he wanted me to do. He wanted me to make a Legend of Zelda game with chanbara-style action.
Iwata: When people talk about The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, they mention various things like an epic story, solving puzzles, trotting across a gigantic field on a horse and how cool Link is, but it began with the single theme of making a Legend of Zelda game that included chanbara-style swashbuckling!
Osawa: Yes. I started writing the script with chanbara at the front of my mind. Then Koizumi-san joined us, and there were three of us.
Koizumi: It was true of Shimizu-san as well, but I really liked The Adventure of Link.
Osawa: So much that you wanted to make it yourself?
Koizumi: Yeah. You might say that, but before Super Mario 64, I had actually been making Zelda II: The Adventure of Link in polygons with Miyamoto-san.
Iwata: Before Super Mario 64... You mean for the Super Famicom System?

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