Interview:London Roundtable February 1st 2002

Shigeru Miyamoto talks about the Nintedo GameCube, the launch of the conole in Europe, GBA connectivity, online gaming, Zelda for the GameCube, and much more.

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Miyamoto - When we came to Europe we wanted to be able to show something we haven't yet shown and we believe we'll be able to introduce all these four titles by the end of this year all around the world. Some of them may be late, but that is our hope.

Are you at all interested in working with the new Triforce arcade hardware and what possibilities do you feel it offers?

Miyamoto - I actually don't know to what extent I can talk about this, but just to start with a little about Triforce: Triforce is a name of the printed circuit-board for an arcade machine, a joint project between Nintendo, Namco, and our old arch enemy, Sega. We recently made the joint announcement.

Triforce is, of course, the name of an item in The Legend of Zelda. The meaning of it is three forces coming together to become a big power. But the fact that three companies have made the announcement does not mean that other companies are not going to use the system: we believe that Capcom and other companies are going to make use of Triforce.

As a matter of fact, although we have only just announced it, negotiations and development have been going on for a very long time, so that it could be completed in order for our software titles will run at the arcade centre, making use of Triforce. Sometime in March or April, a series of announcements will be made, revealing several software titles that will make use of the hardware - you will be surprised by some of the names there. And needless to say, arcade developer Sega is going to make a number of titles. As for the CPU and graphics chip in the GameCube, these are the ones actually used in the Triforce circuit board.

I think this signifies three important points: Firstly, from long experience of creating arcade games, Namco and Sega understood that the GameCube technology is good enough to make this type of game, and that it's easy and efficient enough to make their software. Of course, its low cost has been taken into consideration. Another important point is that whatever software is made for Triforce will be readily available for GameCube. Thirdly, wait for the announcement in March or April: I'm sure it will surprise you quite a lot.

Excluding your own projects, which GameCube titles are you most impressed by?

Miyamoto - That's a very difficult question to answer as I always try to refrain from making comments on other people's work. I believe Star Wars on Gamecube is much better than its predecessor. Nintendo really wants a good variety of software for Gamecube at this time.

We've also been having conversations with Mr Mikami [ Shinji Mikami, the producer of Capcom's Resident Evil series – Ed]; for the line-up of Gamecube software I appreciate the production of titles such as Resident Evil.

You repeatedly stressed that you're trying to move away from the kiddy image, to move away towards an image of GameCubes for everybody, and you've attracted games like Resident Evil and Eternal Darkness; more mature content. This message still doesn't seem to be getting through to developers. Developers that are bringing games across all platforms are still saying that when they bring it out on GameCube they're going to dumb the content down, take out more mature elements. This is obviously going to put potential buyers off. What are you opinions on this?

I often talk with developers, and when they are attempting to decide if they are going to make software for the Nintendo platform, they intentionally try to make it childish sometimes as they think they can sell a lot more software to children. Also, whenever we are having talks with licensees, we make a point in asking them, "Please, you must make something suited for Nintendo". When we are saying we want to have something unique for Nintendo, they obviously mistake it and think Nintendo want some childish-looking games. We are still having meetings with licensees, with companies such as Sega. They often say, "Yes, we wanted to make more adult oriented games, other than making characters look childish," I say, "Yeah, actually that's what we really wanted all the time." From the point of view of first-party of Nintendo licensees, Nintendo really has a responsibility to expand its hardware to much wider audiences. Even in Nintendo first-party titles we are trying to expand.

So when I'm talking about what's unique about Nintendo, it's not childish software but rather with things like the connectivity with the Game Boy Advance.

Rumour's been escalating in the last few months that your GameCube development will be focusing on shorter games like Luigi's Mansion or Pikmin. Is this true?

Miyamoto - I think that judging play time depends on the concept of each game. Like with Luigi's Mansion, once you are through to the end, it's the end of the game; Luigi's Mansion is that kind of story-telling genre. In Pikmin, however, I think players are divided into two groups. As soon members of the first group are finished they quit, but the others are people that try and try and try the 10 courses. I made Pikmin in the hope that each player will play it at least three times. Rather than increasing the skill or expanding the play time, we should concentrate more on making unique games by working with a small group of developers.

As for the next Legend of Zelda, it's going to be a relatively big team. For Mario Sunshine I think it's likely to be made by a relatively small team, but it's going to be made to make you play again and again.

What's your impression of the release of the GameCube in Europe?

Miyamoto - First of all, we were going to launch the GameCube in March in Europe, but this would have put us in a disadvantageous position. The only reason we delayed the launch was that we wanted to prepare the right amount of hardware, and by delaying the launch to May we are now trying to store enough inventory. On day one we are trying to ship 500,000 units of GameCube across Europe. Within two months we expect to ship 1 million units in Europe.

I think we're better prepared for the launch of the next console in Europe than anywhere else. For one thing there are the software titles. We shall be able to prepare 20 titles for day one in Europe.

I was involved in the hardware design of this product too, and I myself designed this hardware with a wish that this is going to be played by all family members, from small children to older people, small children and their grandparents. And we really want GameCube to become the platform where unique games are going to be introduced. We made the hardware design and architecture so that it will become the most accepted machine for developers to make software for.

So when developers are making the software for GameCube they are going to appreciate the best possible performance of a videogame while they can have the other function of connectivity. As you can tell it is compact and light. We were selling software on ROM cartridges, but now we are adapting to providing games on small-sized discs. We have able to realise a very sweet reaction between the hardware and the software this time, so I think we've made a convenient development platform.

Needless to say, it's at the lowest price-point in the market.

To start with in Europe we are going to introduce lilac and black GameCubes, but because we really want as many people as possible to play with Nintendo GameCube, we are soon going to add an orange colour. We are planning to increase the colours later on. I think the compact body with a variety of colours will be suited to the tastes of Europe, rather than a back gigantic body.

Most GameCube owners are looking forward to Mario Kart. How is work going and what difficulties have you had improving the formula?

Miyamoto - We've been having a series of meetings about what to do with Mario Kart on GameCube. We have almost come to a decision as to what drastic change to make to the basics of the past Mario Kart games. All I can tell you is that we are hopeful that we can show something early next year.

How are you making sure that third party developers will make full use of the GC's unique controller and the networked GBA aspects?

Miyamoto - First of all, the Nintendo GameCube has very appealing features - the inter-connectivity, good controllers - but we are always happy for others to come up with very good ideas or situations to make use of them. Everybody nowadays is interested in network gaming. People are taking great interest in the connectivity between GameCube and GBA right now and we are intending to include many applications of our own.

The internal mission at Nintendo is to educate the audience and the game player as to what combinations of connectivity are available. Licencees will then find it easier to sell applications with connectivity. For Nintendo it's a big responsibility to expand the possibilities and the environment for new games in Japan. This is something we can do by ourselves.

How important is it for Nintendo to have its own hardware? Would it be better for Nintendo to become like Sega and become software licencees and developers only?

Miyamoto - It's a difficult question to answer but Nintendo is making hardware in order to make software. The videogame industry has become mainstream, and people often regard it is primarily a software-selling industry. In other words, all you have to do is make the programs and sell them. Period. But Nintendo has a different opinion. We, of course, are selling the games of Konami [and others], but that's just one aspect of our business. Nintendo's main business is to provide the world with unique entertainment.

I had a mentor [Don't ask us who, because we don't know – Ed] in my office in the past, and when I told her I had the word artist on my business card he scolded me. Now what we are doing is a business of glamour. If you put a business title on your card you will contain constrain the possibilities.

Nintendo was traditionally a playing card company, now Nintendo makes playing cards on which certain barcodes are printed and by letting the card be read by a special barcode reader, certain information will appear on GBA games.

How do you think that Hiroshi Yamauchi's [Nintendo Japan's president – Ed] retirement will affect Nintendo's future?

Miyamoto - I really don't know. For example, after his retirement, it'll matter how much influence he attempts to put on Nintendo. By now we have learnt quite a lot from him regarding the way Nintendo should be operated. So even after he retires his influence will be felt dearly by the company. Perhaps though we will be a lot freer in terms of design after he's gone. Please don't write that! [laughs]

Sony has announced its plans for online gaming. When will you announce yours?

Miyamoto - This is being explored along the same lines as other connectivity issues such as between GBA and GameCube and making four-player games for GameCube. Putting a game online doesn't necessarily mean it will become any more interesting than it already is. I think there is a definite danger that combined network gaming can become a permanent escape from reality for the game developer. They become stuck with making new ideas, always thinking about making online games next time, so that the present offline games suffer. Once you have made one single online networked game you can't easily go on to the next project. You have to keep watching the game's progress; in other words you end up doing maintenance. For example, in Japan it seems as though role-playing games are selling very well but in reality it's just Final Fantasy that is selling well in the market. So even if you are talking about online networking games, if you have a monthly subscription fee you just can't tell how much software you have to create to begin with, and how many companies can get a profit.

Also, as I said before, Nintendo cannot guarantee 100 percent about the networking environment and we guess that by 2005 only around 20 percent of European households will have access to broadband. Nintendo cannot afford to program for only 20 percent of households when we have the possibility to sell to 100 percent of them with non-networked games. Also we wish to provide a wide range of people with a variety of new entertainment, from small children to very old people. With online networked games, that's just one type of person.

For the software, I have already made so many games by connecting four GBAs together or by using four controllers on the GameCube.

We could make a Pikmin online game.

We are ready to go onto the online networks, but having said that we do not believe that all future gaming shall be played online.

How do you take the reaction to the cartoon Zelda and do you believe that what you have to offer is relevant to what the majority of gamers want regarding realistic games?

Miyamoto - I think that we are exploring certain types of reality, but I believe that games should be judged by playing them not by mere appearances. That's why I have not brought the latest videotape of Zelda footage with me. We are going to exhibit the Legend of Zelda gameplay at the E3 show this year.

In the third-party development disclaimer for GBA it has a detailed section on infra-red communication. Will that be a feature on the new model?

Miyamoto - We don't have anything along those lines planned. Always we are working on many different ideas and projects when it comes to connecting the technology sides of applications.

Do you think gaming has a positive effect on society?

Miyamoto - I don't know. When I was a small child I was the kind of kid who was deeply into reading comics. At that time Manga was becoming big amongst children. Also Japanese TV stations started broadcasting Manga programs. But then after a while I became so addicted to cartoons that I started drawing them myself. I became quite good at it and that led to where I am now, making games. So looking backwards, what was good about that time was that my parents gave me guidance saying that I should not read cartoons all the time. So they restricted the time I could read them, but I also tried to sneak a look. But I wasn't always reading them all the time. I was also into fishing, I played baseball and tried to play outside a lot. I believe it is most important for children is to have many experiences. The use of games are a type of media is something we should consider carefully. If you ask specifically my attitude as a game designer, then I'm always trying to make my games carefully designed so that a game-player can be forced to think about many different ideas throughout the game. That's the beauty of an interactive medium like videogames.

Because of the length of time it took to announce GameCube's European launch date, sometimes European gamers view Europe as less important than either America or Japan: can you reassure us that Nintendo loves us?

Miyamoto - I'm very sorry, and that's why I'm actually here today. I have visited Germany, Spain, Italy, France and now England, in order to talk to European people directly along with Mr. Iwata. However, just a few days ago, his father-in-law unfortunately passed away so he had to return home. He was very sorry, and left a message saying he really wanted to be in the UK today.

I really want people around the world to enjoy Nintendo games equally, and in order to do so we are now setting up a system whereby each software developer is having a dialogue with different people in charge of localisation. In order to have an efficient localisation process, we have already set up such a facility in Europe where people working on localisation are getting together to produce quality products.

In the past you've been very reluctant to describe what you do as art. How do you feel about other people describing what you do as art?

Miyamoto - Somewhere in our minds in the games industry we have a kind of inferiority complex compared to people working on art and people working in the movie industry.

Parents are often feel comfortable by watching their children watching Disney movies, but they always tend to become worried about children playing with Nintendo video games, so in the past I've always thought that I should make software that parents feel comfortable with whenever they see their children playing.

How critical is the lack of a DVD player in GameCube, and does the size of the disc restrict the potential for building bigger games in the future?

Miyamoto - If you look at gameplay aspects and gaming experience, we've come up with the best hardware ever with the Nintendo GameCube system.

These kind of hardware devices [DVD-playing consoles] are destined to be broken and will need repairing: even if your gameplay system is OK, if your DVD system playback is out of order you'll have to get it repaired which can cost a lot of money.

And look at the small, compact size of the Nintendo GameCube - once again we wanted to make something for all ages, so even small children can handle it easily, and small hands can carry this disc easily. Also, when it comes to the accessing time for the media this is quite good in comparison: for example, in order to access a bigger disc, you need more power.

Another key point is with copy protection, which I think is one of the biggest issues in Europe. From a game making point of view, game creators are now going to receive money that they are credited for: the customised optical disc offers strong protection against copyright infringement.

Unfortunately, in some cases you may need two optical discs to play a game like Resident Evil, but for the majority of the games, one disc is enough. A problem is that people seem to demand realistic graphics from software: I'm not convinced that by relying on this the game can be any good. I'm not sure if it's the whole world demanding realistic graphics or just a limited number of gamesplayers, but some developers are in the mind-set that they feel threatened by the world into making realistic gameplay right now.

Therefore, they just cannot afford the time to make unique software because they feel the pressure to make realistic games and are obsessed with graphics. In the end they cannot recoup their investment in the game. So, in a way the smaller disc is a message from Nintendo that you don't need to fill out the capacity of a normal sized DVD disc. If we want to make larger software, then we just make the game on two or three discs.