Interview:Iwata Asks: Wii U

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Iwata Asks: Wii U


June 9, 2011




Satoru Iwata and Shigeru Miyamoto discuss the genesis of Nintendo's new home console, its revolutionary new controller, and just a few of the gameplay ideas made possible through this exciting technology.



Iwata: Thanks for taking your time today.
Miyamoto: Thanks for having me.
Iwata: You know, Wii U has already been announced by the time people are reading this interview.
Miyamoto: Right.
Iwata: I've been looking back at my calendar right before this interview, and I noticed that it's been just about three years since we started having meetings about this.
Miyamoto: Yeah.
Iwata: It's just that we were talking about it not in a way of "when should we release it" as the decisive factor, but we were saying to ourselves, "now let's really start thinking about what's coming next," and we have been repeatedly holding meetings to have discussions about this ever since. And now the fruition of our efforts is finally taking shape.
Miyamoto: I think so too.
Iwata: Nintendo released the Wii console, and now that it has been accepted in many people's lives, what went through your mind Miyamoto-san? What are you envisioning in the road ahead?
Miyamoto: Hmm… I guess, as a device in people's living rooms, I think I fundamentally wanted to have Wii become a more fulfilling device.
Iwata: Right.
Miyamoto: And, I wanted it to become a tool that everyone in the household would use everyday. I made Wii Fit because I wanted it to be something that entire families would use. In that sense, I wanted it to be a tool in the living room that people would proactively turn the power on without putting much thought into it. If I could go further, I want people to turn the power on the Wii first before they even turn on the TV.
Iwata: So you wanted to further pursue what you wanted to do with Wii.
Miyamoto: Yeah. I wanted to improve on what we challenged with Wii, in how we wanted to perfect it in making it a device that rightfully belongs in the living room.
Iwata: I see. There were piles of things that we weren't able to fully accomplish with Wii, from our perspective. And while it was natural for us in wanting to improve on those one by one, we thoroughly talked about how those issues wouldn't be solved unless a structural change had occurred.
Miyamoto: Right.
Iwata: We actually debated quite a bit until we settled on the way it is now. There was a lot of back and forth before reaching where we are now.
Miyamoto: Right, we did. We started from scratch many times.
Iwata: But because people outside the company do not have an insight into our development process, when people see this for the first time in 2011 when this is revealed, they might think, "Oh, Nintendo is going to add a tablet to their console". I think that's how people may see it.
Miyamoto: Oh, right, right.
Iwata: But when we were first talking about this, tablet devices weren't very common. It's very similar with the Nintendo 3DS system, we release something after much internal debate and development, and that release timing happens to be when something like that is extremely popular. I feel like that has been our trend lately.
Miyamoto: Yeah, it certainly has. If you hold it like this (vertically) it looks like a tablet. Hold it like this, (horizontally) and with the TV as the second screen you can use it like a Nintendo DS! (laughs) But that's not why we thought of wanting to add DS connectibility, we didn't think about making it more like a tablet at all.
Iwata: Right, of course, it can do those things too, but that's not where development started. It's more about the value of having a screen in your hands for a video game, and we were focusing on how you are able to do quite a few things without turning the TV on.
Miyamoto: Right, that's what it was about.
Iwata: Up until now, there was an appliance called the television that was always in the center of the living room, and video games always needed to use that setup in order for it to be played. (Genyo) Takeda-san often puts it as if it's a parasite to the TV! (laughs)

But what would happen if video games had their own screen? That idea resolved a lot of the issues we had been feeling, right?
Miyamoto: That's right. Lately, the television in the household is being used for more purposes than ever. The internal system has become more complicated, and it has become something very big and bulky where it's taking much longer to turn on. The Wii console did have the blue illumination lamp to notify new messages, but the amount of information a lamp could get across was limited…
Iwata: It was only able to say whether there was new information or not, so it had limits on what it could do.
Miyamoto: Yeah, so we started from the notion of "It would be nice if there was a small monitor of sorts other than the TV, where we could always see the status of the Wii console."
Iwata: We had a lot of discussions and experiments, including things like where this small monitor should be.
Miyamoto: Right, although a larger screen is more attractive, we debated about things like how a bigger screen wouldn't work within the budget constraints… it went in many directions. And as we were working on it, the situations surrounding us worked to our advantage. It felt like we were able to get closer to what we were originally envisioning.
Iwata: When we were making the Wii Remote controller, we talked greatly about how we need to make it so people who had never played video games could use it without feeling overwhelmed by it. We thought that it shouldn't have that many buttons and control sticks, and thus the Wii Remote became something very simple in form.

On the other hand, when we were making this new controller, we heard from quite a few people who had seen what we had done with the Wii Remote, wondering why are we putting buttons and control sticks on it, and that it should be much simpler.

But Miyamoto-san, I remember you strongly opposing those comments saying, "what are you thinking!" I remember that moment clearly. Can I ask you to talk about what you think about people saying things like "I wish the A and B Buttons would disappear", and "you don't really need the control stick".
Miyamoto: Um, sure! (laughs) Well, I do proclaim rather boldly and tell people to not be afraid of doing things and to challenge new things on a daily basis. On the contrary, I'm rather conservative.
Iwata: Bold but conservative? (laughs)
Miyamoto: Bold, but cautious, I have to be. Not one of our customers is the same, so I think about it from the point of view of someone who has dealt with games for years, and at the same time I also think about how it will appear to people who have never played games. Back when we made the Wii Remote, our core design philosophy was how to lessen the number of buttons without losing past gameplay standards. Even if it was just one button that we were talking about taking out, I think I was the one who twisted my head over it the most.
Iwata: Yeah.
Miyamoto: So to those people who said things like how we should leave more buttons on it, I think "I completely understand. But that is exactly why we need to do it this way. There can be a new gameplay standard ahead of this." That's how we made the Wii Remote. With the new controller this time, it has a touchscreen here, and you can see information on it at anytime that won't appear on the TV. So, on many levels, it's a tool that makes things easier to understand. So by taking advantage of it, we can think about designing bold, brand new games. On the other hand, as we had to think about the resulting size of the new controller, I came to think that rather than focusing on efforts just trying to make it slimmer, we should focus more on designing it so that the potentials for us to be able to make a variety of new things can be further expanded. On the flipside, if it were all just buttons, it would have become a device that people would be overwhelmed with.
Iwata: This time there is "the other screen."
Miyamoto: There is. Because it has its screen, it's become much easier to understand, and we thought in that case, we'd stuff it with features so it could do anything.
Iwata: In a way, it's a classic controller with a screen.
Miyamoto: I think so. It has many faces. If you look at it this way (turns the new controller around), there are two L and R Buttons.
Iwata: And those who don't want it (buttons and Circle Pads), do not need to use it.
Miyamoto: Yeah, you don't have to use it at all. You can hold it this way (vertically) or this way (horizontally) and mostly use the touchscreen. And here around the bottom of the screen it has the same layout as the Nintendo 3DS so you're able to go to the Home Menu with the press of a button. It also has two analog Circle Pads. You can come up with many ways to play.
Iwata: Another thing is that by having one more screen it can be used everyday and at anytime. But also, the way it can be utilized is changing the possibility of games. There are probably a lot of different possibilities in the way it can be used.
Miyamoto: Yeah.
Iwata: When I think if a certain idea is good or not, I always think you can tell when that idea is presented, whether it can spur on many new ideas—in this case, in how many ways that it can be utilized. Just like with the Nintendo DS system, when you told us about the idea of making one of the screens a touchscreen, many ideas flowed from there about new possibilities. This time it's very similar, by it taking on this structure, you're now able to do much more with it. Miyamoto-san, what kind of impressions did you have?
Miyamoto: Let's see. I thought that now you'll be able to see the content inside without turning on the big TV, so even if someone is watching something else on the TV set, you're able to play just with this one screen. And in Japan, Karaoke is very popular. It comes with a remote control, and on the larger screen (TV) it displays the information of the song that's currently playing, and the person who's up next is selecting the song on the screen of the remote. I think the same function exists with the new controller.
Iwata: Right.
Miyamoto: Also, many games from Nintendo are a multiplayer experience, where you play in big groups. With the Nintendo 3DS and DS systems, you play by not needing to show your screen to anyone else. And with Wii games everyone plays while watching the same screen. With Wii U, you are able to combine both, the ability to display information that no one else can see, and the screen that everyone watches while playing, to come up with new ways to play. In this year's E3, we're demonstrating how that works on the show floor.
Iwata: So, in a way, the people who are playing are standing on different fields. Not everyone has the same perspective, and the situation becomes more interesting because of that one single player who is looking at the game from a different point of view.
Miyamoto: That's exactly right. This is the case with the Nintendo 3DS version of The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D; there are games that you're able to play much more effectively because it displays both the game screen and the information screen. And, what I noticed as we were making it, was that when I was watching something like the website on a larger screen, I couldn't see it very well with my eyesight! (laughs)
Iwata: You end up getting closer to the screen anyways because you can't see! (laughs) TVs in recent years usually have a programming guide display on the screen, but with my eyesight even that's pretty hard to see.
Miyamoto: Yeah. But still, the TV's large screen size with its wide viewing range is so great. I call it the magnifying glass feature; you're able to see it in any size you like on screen of the new controller in your hands so you can easily read what it says, while everyone's enjoying the bigger picture on the big screen. With this new controller, you can come up with many new ways to use it, even beyond video games. And since it now has the gyro sensor just like the Nintendo 3DS, you can do things like use it with the Wii Zapper. It feels great to play as I'm making games with it, and I feel there are a lot of possibilities.
Iwata: By the way, you're the one that forcefully added on the gyro sensor on the Nintendo 3DS.
Miyamoto: I am! (laughs) To make an excuse, we put something back in because now we were able to make the cost work out.
Iwata: I'm sure you're seeing the benefits of the addition of the gyro sensor already. And in addition to that magnifying glass feature that we just talked about, we also discussed another topic quite a bit. There are times when you read or type with a PC or a smartphone, and when you watch something on a big screen TV while you take a break, or when you want to watch with a group of people so you could share that experience. At first glance, these instances are commonly treated as the same thing, in the way that they are something that are displayed on a screen. But actually these are completely different experiences from one another. Internally we talked a lot about distances whether it's a foot or ten feet, or whether it's thirty centimeters or three meters. In that respect I think this new controller is very interesting in the way that it can accommodate both situations.
Miyamoto: Yeah, that's right.
Iwata: There were things that weren't suited to do on video games… Like when trying to enter text on Wii, even though we placed a lot of effort into it, I do not think we ever reached a point where we could proudly say that it was a stress-free experience. But this time, I feel that will change greatly.
Miyamoto: Back when we proposed connectivity in the past by offering two screens between the TV and the Game Boy Advance, we were told that humans aren't able to watch two screens. But in actuality there are many situations where it's better to have a separate information display. I mean, on my desk I have two PC monitors! (laughs) So you can't say people aren't able to watch two screens.
Iwata: Right, well, it has become very common these days where you will be at home watching TV while you have another device in your hands. I even feel this idea, that you aren't able to watch two screens at once, is a thing of the past.
Miyamoto: Yeah. It's more convenient to have things like a software keyboard at your fingertips. Like with a painting tool, it's better to have two screens because the one where you draw, and another to show to someone are two different functions. With the Nintendo DS you can draw on it and show it to people but with the household TV, it's too far to go up to it and draw on it, and then you don't exactly want to show something very small that you drew on your handheld device, you would rather show it on a bigger screen. Even with just this situation, with this new controller, you can draw on the handheld real-time, and you are able to present it to everyone on the big screen. And with photos, they're much more suited to display on a big screen when you want to show it to a lot of people, and it's better to have something in your hands when you select the photos.
Iwata: There are pictures you don't want to show people. There will probably be times where you don't want to have all the pictures you've taken to be displayed on the big screen at once.
Miyamoto: Exactly. You can be ready for those situations if you have two screens. There are a lot of situations like that every day, and features like that are also useful with videos. It has functions that can be useful in daily life.
Iwata: That's a very similar structure with the Karaoke example we just talked about.
Miyamoto: Oh yeah, that's definitely right.
Iwata: It's very similar with how in Karaoke, the information of the song that's playing now is being displayed on the bigger screen, while someone's choosing what to sing next in the palm of his or her hands. Searching and selecting the next picture or video, reading text and then looking for detailed information is easier to do on a handheld device, and sharing that with a group of people is better suited on a big screen. So including that structure, it's critical that this environment is available to everyone from the very beginning.
Miyamoto: Right. As Nintendo, it's something we are always conscious of. It's vital to provide the same environment to everyone who purchases our consoles and systems.
Iwata: Wii U can connect directly with the Wii Balance Board. From here on out, how do you want to change Wii Fit?
Miyamoto: You're asking good questions! (laughs) Of course I'd like people to play Wii Fit, I don't think people have to do training in front of the big screen every day. I think it's enough if people just check their weight.
Iwata: I see.
Miyamoto: At first I only thought "it would be great if you could check your weight with just Wii, without having to turn the TV on." And then I thought this new controller could be the middle ground. Instead of turning on the TV, just this is enough to display graphs and such while your checking your weight, so it's handy in a way that you are able to play Wii Fit with just this and the Wii Balance Board.
Iwata: I see.
Miyamoto: And you can leave it in a state where you're able to check your weight right away. In that way, it'll be closer to what we envisioned Wii Fit to be. I can't really talk about it in detail, but we're working on new ways to do training exercises with Wii Fit, like using the camera, you can place it against something and play while the game looks at your status.
Iwata: It certainly seems possible from an engineering standpoint that the camera will recognize you if you position the new controller to look at you. Moreover, it would be much more accessible if all you have to do is to hold it, press a button and stand on the Wii Balance Board.
Miyamoto: I think so. I hope it turns out that way.
Iwata: And by having two screens, aside from the ways to play which involve the connectivity that we just talked about, there are an endless possibility of ideas which can change, for example, highly strategic games like sports game, where things can move back and forth between the screen in your hands and the TV monitor that's away from you.
Miyamoto: Yeah, there's a lot to it. Games are basically simulations, but it's too much if you try to take it too far and do something too true. That's why we've been making a lot of "fake play that seems real" up until now.
Iwata: Yeah.
Miyamoto: The reason for that is there were restrictions that limited what you could do when making the simulation only with a single screen and a controller. You had no other choice but to make it that way. But now it can be more real, or "seem more realistic". I think we're able to add more realism in different ways without making the gameplay too difficult. Um… I laugh at myself about this but the game of golf. I don't play a whole lot of golf at all, so when the golf ball gets stuck in rough terrain, I don't really understand how tough that is! (laughs) But if I put this on the floor, it shows images of the ball buried under the grass, I get a sense of how tough it is in the rough.
Iwata: Right, and another thing, is that you can look at the ball, then see what's ahead of you, and look at the ball again and see what's ahead again. You can look down, and away as you swing the club. Even with the Wii Remote and how it can be swung like a golf club, you never looked down. Until now, at least.
Miyamoto: It makes it more realistic, it's very good.
Iwata: That way you look down as you play, it's so fun whether you're the one doing it or watching someone else play it. (laughs)
Miyamoto: It really is. It changes things in baseball too. Until now, baseball games were more about how to control the professional athletes. But now you actually feel like you're the softball player, and there's this sense of immersion that you're protecting the field.
Iwata: Like this. (as if raising a glove)
Miyamoto: Yeah, it feels like you're chasing after the ball. So you can run really fast to catch a ball, and feel as if you just made a play of the day. In that sense, you can now play in more of a simulation mindset.
Iwata: Now, can you talk about how this new controller works together with the Wii Remote that we have been using until now?
Miyamoto: Sure. Actually, as I was making it I didn't have a whole lot of doubts in my mind that the Wii Remote would still be used as it was. I feel like the Wii Remote has pretty much become its ideal form with the Wii Remote Plus.
Iwata: I see, you mean you can do just about everything you want to do with it.
Miyamoto: That's right. And when I thought whether we really needed to require the purchase of something completely new, I felt that we could continue with this way to play for another while. I feel that way even when I play The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword.
Iwata: It feels like it moves just the way you want it to.
Miyamoto: It does. I get so into it and swing my arms around that I laugh at myself! (laughs) You can freely do a lot of different things.
Iwata: It's very interesting to hear you getting so into it even though you're the one making the game! (laughs)
Miyamoto: So when I think about it within the concept of bringing the Wii to a place that's further ahead, I think it's fine the way it is now aside from how we wanted to add an independent screen like with this new controller. The other thing was we wanted to make the switch to HD. But I had no hesitation in going that direction. Right now I'm planning that people can still be able to use their Wii Remote controllers that they already have, which means this time you now have five controllers to play with.
Iwata: You mean this new controller, and four Wii Remote Plus controllers for a total of five.
Miyamoto: Right. Five controllers. And we have people play in many combinations.
Iwata: When you play alone, you probably would be able to just play with the new controller, without having to play on the TV.
Miyamoto: I think so. We can make games that you play only in the palm of your hands even when something else is on the TV screen, and we can also make entertainment that requires both TV and the smaller screen in your hands. That is up to the designers to decide depending on the type of games they're making. The hardware itself has the capability so that games can be played both ways.
Iwata: It will probably be used in many ways.
Miyamoto: I think so. More than anything, I'm really looking forward to new ways of play, in ways we haven't come up with yet. I think it has a lot of possibilities.
Iwata: We showed a glimpse of all the things it can do in the concept video that we showed during the presentation on stage.
Miyamoto: There is so much there that we're just trying to decide what to start with.
Iwata: So you won't have a shortage of ideas.
Miyamoto: We won't have a shortage of ideas.
Iwata: There are so many great ideas in sight, you're having a hard time figuring out which one you should start cooking.
Miyamoto: Yeah, we are still trying to decide. I think if the licensee developers can come up with all kinds of new ideas as well, then our vision for the future of the Wii console will include numerous ways to play.
Iwata: I think people all over the world are eager to find out how Mario and Zelda games would change with Wii U. What can you say about these, Miyamoto-san?
Miyamoto: Um…I can't really talk about them a whole lot yet, but Nintendo is finally entering a level of HD graphics, where we're now using shaders and such. In that way, it's more… How should I put it, I think people can expect to play more immersive game experiences than before.
Iwata: Immersion.
Miyamoto: Yeah. And with Mario… Let's see. It's actually a little heart pounding for me when I test the landings after Mario makes a jump, because the graphics are finer than ever before. I haven't really figured out the direction for this yet, in terms of whether it should be combined with the new controller, or using it as a sub-screen like in Ocarina of Time 3D, or whether it should be playable just with the new controller. With a Mario game, there are both possibilities.
Iwata: Well, with New Super Mario Bros. Mii, you're now able to play Mario games with Mii characters.
Miyamoto: Right.
Iwata: How did this happen?
Miyamoto: Well…we really debated about this, but when playing New Super Mario Bros. Wii on the Wii console with four people, people always talk about how there are Mario, Luigi, and two Toads, and they wonder why the two are Toads.
Iwata: Right, it's already been great fun playing with four players but sometimes you can't tell who's who.
Miyamoto: Oh, that's right! (laughs)
Iwata: You say things like, "who's that Toad that just messed up?" (laughs) The characters have a distinct color on them but you start losing track in the heat of the moment.
Miyamoto: But if we made it so that people can play with Princess Peach, you have to think about how to change her gameplay with her physical proportions, and if we went with Wario people would expect a different ability from him. But we're not able to make all the player characters Toads either. That's when someone brought up how great it would be if you could use Mii characters.

Although, I actually still debate by myself if it's ok for a Mii character to be the main character of a Mario game! (laughs) But I made the decision thinking that our customers would want to play with their own Mii characters the most. I hope people play it thinking that they're their own Mario, rather than their Mii.

And by the increased resolution, you're able to see the Mii characters even when they're very small. And in terms of gameplay, there's already that established environment where four people could play holding the Wii Remote sideways.
Iwata: And the environment has started to emerge for it. With the increasing number of households with one Wii Remote for each member of the family and a big screen HDTV, there are many customers who are prepared to play in situations like these. I think that part is fairly easy to communicate.
Miyamoto: I think so.
Iwata: I wondered how much benefit a Mario game could have with higher resolution. When the development team showed me a prototype of New Super Mario Bros. Mii for the first time, I thought the benefits were obvious.
Miyamoto: That's the case, especially with 3D games.
Iwata: In how you're able to tell whom it is right away, even when they're far away.
Miyamoto: Right, that's what I mean. Also, with side scrolling games like that, you can play with just the screen on the new controller without having to use the big screen when you're playing by yourself. When someone else in your family wants to watch a show on TV while you're playing, you can keep playing on the screen of the new controller, or you can show off your gameplay to the people in the room on the big screen. I think there is a wide range of options in what you can do.
Iwata: On the other hand, how is it making something that's completely new? Now that Wii U has been made, is it easier for you now to think of those things?
Miyamoto: Hmm… Well… It's just that I actually never worry about what to do when I think about new things. I'm the type that thinks there has to be new things to do. And, every time I finish something people question if I can surpass my past creations.
Iwata: That's the same when you work on a series. People ask you what will you do next when you've done everything with Mario and Zelda?
Miyamoto: That's right. I always say we've done everything we wanted to do every time we finish a project.
Iwata: You did everything you wanted at that moment, but new ideas keep popping up?
Miyamoto: Yeah, I always think that new ideas will come out again. It's just that this time around, there are so many options in what can be done; it's actually difficult to narrow down what I should do next.
Iwata: Ah, because you have so many ideas flowing, they may disperse unless you narrow them down well. That's your dilemma.

Lately, it has become more difficult for game developers to see what they need to do next to make players happy. So far, I think developers have built in more content to make the games denser, and added quantity hoping that will please the players.

Now I'm really looking forward to what kinds of ways to play you're going to come up with Miyamoto-san, I have high expectations of you.
Miyamoto: I got it, I'll do my best! (laughs)
Iwata: Now, this is something that has been pointed out by developers outside of the company. Including HD support, there had been times up to now where you could do things on other companies' hardware, but was difficult to do on Wii.
Miyamoto: Yeah.
Iwata: With Wii U, I also wanted to alleviate those restrictions as much as possible. I may be exaggerating by saying that with Wii U, we are posing a challenge against all creators. I want to challenge them by saying, "Wouldn't your creation be better, while keeping all of its strong points with this new structure that we are offering?" and "Doesn't this hold the key that could resolve a years-long dilemma?"
Miyamoto: I think so. Well, I think that's really aimed towards me, actually.
Iwata: With this new structure that we are now offering, we have come to recognize that we are now able to solve a number of issues that we feel have been surrounding us for years, so we really feel that this has potential. I think this is something that developers outside of the company are feeling, and developers besides you, Miyamoto-san, are thinking of as well.
Miyamoto: If they can think of it that way, drastically new play styles can become possible, and what had been thought of as the limits of past play styles may change.

We debated for quite a long time about all kinds of things, but particularly, we discussed extensively about how we can talk about possibilities of what can be done for people who are connected to a network, but what kind of value it would have to those who are not connected.
Iwata: Right.
Miyamoto: From those discussions, I think we're now able to start preparing for solutions for both types of people.
Iwata: For those who aren't connected, what aspect of its possibilities are you most interested in?
Miyamoto: I think first and foremost it's the new possibilities of multi-person play the new controller can offer, but I'd like to point out the relationship that video games have against standard television programming. With the way it is now, I think video games very commonly are responsible for creating situations that either takes the TV away from the parents when the child wants to play video games, or the children can't play because the parents are watching a show on TV. But with the new controller, it has become clear that the two can now coexist.
Iwata: Because of that conflict, until now an entirely new problem existed because video games were invited in to the living room. That has ironically limited its playtime, even though it was such a wonderful thing that video games could be invited in to the living room to begin with.
Miyamoto: That's right.
Iwata: The new controller resolves those situations in a different way.
Miyamoto: I think so.
Iwata: The other things is, shortly after the Wii console was released, people in the gaming media and game enthusiasts started recognizing the Wii as a casual machine aimed toward families, and placed game consoles by Microsoft and Sony in a very similar light with each other, saying these are machines aimed towards those who passionately play games. It was a categorization between games that were aimed towards core, and casual. I've been having a sense of disagreement as I personally think the definition of a core gamer is much wider, namely, someone who has a much wider range of interests, someone who enthusiastically plays many types of games that challenges different creative directions.

On the other hand, I certainly do not think that Wii was able to cater to every gamer's needs, so that's also something I wanted to resolve.

The keyword for our presentation at this year's E3 is "Deeper and Wider". With Wii U, I would like to offer this proposal with that concept.

Of course, with the Wii console I'm sure everyone would agree that we tried really hard to go wider, but even though we worked aggressively to go deeper in certain areas, the general public's impression that Nintendo was casual grew as time went by.

But first of all, your works have definitely laid the structural foundation of games that are considered core today, Miyamoto-san.
Miyamoto: Well…people in the media tend to categorize into different genres, the core and casual because it's easier to characterize it that way. But as you can see with games like The Legend of Zelda, Nintendo is fully staffed with members who are into working on a very core level of detail. And because we know that, we haven't really taken those accounts seriously.

But one of the key reasons that such things as the core and the casuals exist today is that we decided not to adopt HD on the Wii console. Of course, besides that there are things like issues with the controller and the challenges that it brings, network functionalities and many other things, but I think HD was the biggest factor that everyone was able to clearly understand the difference.

In terms of the HD capabilities, Wii U can do something similar, and on top of that, it is equipped with this new controller that adds an entirely new structure to games. I think this is an opportunity for those games that were considered to be core up to now, to evolve into something even more interesting structure. In that sense, I do wish all kinds of games would be released, regardless of the debate over core or casual.
Iwata: That core vs. casual debate seems like something that can never see a resolution, but with Wii U, I have a feeling that it all may change. I even feel that the barrier that separated the two genres was only something psychological, just an impression that people had towards them. For example, The Legend of Zelda games were something geared towards the toughest audience, and it has been so from the beginning. So it's not like Nintendo doesn't have it in us. But there are quite a number of people who assume that Nintendo is the equivalent of being casual.

If we are able to break those psychological barriers with Wii U, I feel like we will be able to take our goal of expanding the gaming population even further to the next step. It would even be possible to expand our customer base and bring in more people, and out of those new people, there will be those who will find certain controls or elements of deeper gameplay intriguing, and eventually will become passionate game fans. That was the way the history of video games has been, and I want to keep the tradition going so it doesn't fade away. That, I think is the true meaning of "a game for everyone". A game for everyone isn't just wide, but also very deep. That's how it will become everyone's game.
Miyamoto: I agree. I feel like it's becoming a device where it can perform really well whether it goes in the living room or in a bedroom.
Iwata: Now to close this interview, as Nintendo is working to deliver Wii U to customers, can I ask you to say a message to our readers, Miyamoto-san?
Miyamoto: Let's see… I think what I want to say is that finally, in the long history of video games, you're now able to play our (home console) games only using a device made by Nintendo, and nothing else. We always depended on the television until now, but it feels like we're finally leaving our parents' house.(laugh)
Iwata: Right.
Miyamoto: I have a feeling that this feature will change the limits of the home console, and I'm looking forward to what game developers around the world can come up with. I really would like for people to proactively use it in their everyday lives.
Iwata: It's a matter of how we can actualize, with this new format, on what we debated over many years. It's the vision of a new game console that exists in the living room, and how it should be played within the household. I think it's a lot of responsibility, but it's very exciting at the same time. So you'll do your best working hard until launch, right?
Miyamoto: Yeah, I think so. I want to make it a machine where it's fully leveraged in the household. I hope it becomes something where people won't be able to imagine life without it.
Iwata: It's not just for everyone who's reading this interview, but also for everyone in his or her family. Thank you very much for your time today.
Miyamoto: Thank you.