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Zelda What-Ifs

twilitfalchion

and thus comes the end of an era
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I've always liked the idea that the deities of Hyrule are distant, merciless entities. They don't care about the lives of those who worship them, whether it's Hylia or the three golden goddesses. They just set things in motion (including the curse as you mentioned) and watch it play out. That's why you have situations in BotW where the solution to defeat Ganon is given too late and the world is ravaged by Ganon.

The curse of the conflict between Link, Zelda, and Ganon (and their equivalents) is the same way. They decide to be a bit sadistic by letting Ganon out to play every once in a while, knowing the same spirit of the hero will rise up alongside the princess to stop it, not caring for the casualties that result from such a reckless action.
 

Uwu_Oocoo2

Joy is in video games and colored pencils
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Well guys, it's been a week! Discussion on the previous question is now closed, unless there's something you really want to add!


Or, well, not quite. I really like that last what-if, and I think there's more that can be said on the topic if anyone is inclined to do so. Plus, first week of summer break and I need to give my brain a vacation! So here is this week's prompt-

What if the 3 goddesses created the "curse"? When Demise casts his curse at the end of SS about the descendant of the goddess and spirit of the hero returning to fight a great evil, it almost sounds as though it was a preexisting cycle. So maybe it was the goddesses that created it (and yes, I know I have no evidence, that's why this is a what-if to speculate about- use your imagination!)
 

Uwu_Oocoo2

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Well guys, it's been a week! Discussion on the previous question is now closed, unless there's something you really want to add!


What clever responses! Oh, how fascinating the conclusion was (I wasn't expecting that at all!) Sarcasm aside, we have a new what-if this week, be wary of Skyward Sword spoilers ahead. I have a LOT of thoughts about this one, so please at least one person say something so I can interject my opinion.

What if Link hadn't opened the gate of time in SS?
 

Uwu_Oocoo2

Joy is in video games and colored pencils
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It's a problem I've always had with SS- the reason Link opens the gate of time is so he can see Zelda. Zelda tells him he needs to get the triforce and then he goes back to the present. The thing is, she could have told Impa to tell Link about the triforce. Then in the future old Impa would pass along the message and Link wouldn't have to open the gate of time. He would use the triforce to stop Demise, Zelda would wake up, and Girahim wouldn't be able to kidnap Zelda and use her to wake up Demise in the past because there would be no gate of time. Sure, Girahim would still be around but he couldn't awaken Demise since he's dead in that timeline. But because Zelda wanted to have her sweet sentimental pre-nap goodbye with Link and risk the future of Hyrule.
 

Uwu_Oocoo2

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Well guys, it's been a week! Discussion on the previous question is now closed, unless there's something you really want to add!


Well since nobody else sees a problem with that I guess I must just be overthinking it. I have a very serious question this week, one that is deeply tied to the very root of lore in the series.

What if Zelda was a girl?
 

Spiritual Mask Salesman

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What if the 3 goddesses created the "curse"? When Demise casts his curse at the end of SS about the descendant of the goddess and spirit of the hero returning to fight a great evil, it almost sounds as though it was a preexisting cycle. So maybe it was the goddesses that created it (and yes, I know I have no evidence, that's why this is a what-if to speculate about- use your imagination!)
I actually pretty much agree with you that this is how the curse works, and went in depth on my thoughts in other threads. The japanese text of the game really makes it seem like Demise didn't set the curse in motion, but rather was invoking it or re-mentioning that it's a thing.
"My hate... never perishes. It is born anew in a cycle with no end! I will rise again! Those like you... Those who share the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero... They are eternally bound to this curse. An incarnation of my hatred shall ever follow your kind, dooming them to wander a blood-soaked sea of darkness for all time!" - Demise
I don’t view these things as eternal forces of nature that were created in that brief moment simply by a curse Demise set in motion with his dying breath. With all the influences of eastern culture in this game, Buddhism in particular, the theology of reincarnation in the game is more than likely closer to the philosophy in Buddhism itself, rather than being some new version fitted into the game. In Buddhist theology, reincarnation is a naturally occurring cycle that has simply existed from the beginning of time, and which will always continue existing as a force within temporal cosmology, thus, nothing ever truly stays dead, everything is reborn anew. I think there is enough in game evidence to say the cycles of reincarnation at work in Skyward Sword are more akin to this theology.


During the battle with Demise, Fi gives some very interesting info.


"This eternal being has conquered time itself. It is the source of all monsters. According to tales passed down through generations, it appears differently in each epoch and to each person who lays eyes on it." - Fi
This quote might confirm that the ancestors of the Skyloftians, and definitely Hylia knew that Demise, as a force of evil, cannot be completely destroyed. Demise knew this about himself as well it seems. The hate curse itself doesn’t come off to me like a last minute thing, it’s more like Demise is pointing out something that Link is unaware of as a sort of last laugh. Consider the way it’s worded. He begins by establishing that his hate never perishes, and it will continuously be reborn, and this is before he even goes on to set his “curse”. The Japanese version of the dialogue is slightly different, and stresses this isn’t some random force coming into play suddenly.



"My hatred... The curse of the Demon Tribe... They shall continously go on reincarnating until the end of all times.

Do not forget it! I shall repeat it!!

You people shall... You people who possess the blood of the Goddess and the soul of hero shall... forever be unable to escape from this curse!

This hatred and grudge... Its evolution shall forever painfully wander across this blood-stained "Dark Sea" along with you lowlifes forever!!” - Japanese Translation of Demise’s hate curse

The first section establishes it as a force already in play within the “Demon Tribe”, which as a whole is the army that Demise led against Hylia, mentioned in the game’s intro scene. So this at least gives some support to my interpretation of the curse.


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To clarify, I’m not saying the curse is metaphorical, I view it as a literal curse,or cycle. Afterall, the whole point of the curse is to give an explanation for Ganondorf, and possibly other villians in the series as well. In Shinto, everything is part of nature and shares the interrelated complexity that is Kami, or the divine essence. It’s also noteworthy that a curse in this sense is defined as “invoking a supernatural power”. It’s not a power that has been created on the spot, it’s a pre-established power that is being tapped into to torment a person, or group. With all this considered, it makes more sense that the curse existed long before Demise mentioned it, or at least the groundwork for the curse was already set, and it just took Demise invoking it to really set it in motion, maybe.

How the goddesses tie into this, I'm unsure. First, we have to wonder if the Triforce was made intentionally or not, and throughout the games the lore swings back and forth on this, making an answer unclear. Most of the time it's implied it was an intentional creation. Hyrule itself was intentionally made for some reason too, so the cycle of reincarnation must also be part of the design for some reason.
 

Uwu_Oocoo2

Joy is in video games and colored pencils
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Well guys, it's been a week! Discussion on the previous question is now closed, unless there's something you really want to add!


Totally memeworthy.

What if Nintendo brought Tingle's Baloon Flight of Love and Tingle's Rosy Rupee Land to switch? Would you buy them?
 

Uwu_Oocoo2

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Wow Chevy, that was a bit of a necro.

I agree that Wand of Gamelon and Faces of Evil I would probably want to play more, just because of how meme worthy they've become. The tingle games are, by extension, a part of the Zelda series (unfortunately) so I think it might be fun just to play like one level just to say I did.

Since we're here now anyway, I've been considering reopening this thread. I stopped coming up with topics due to a lack of interest, and I made this thread with the hopes of stirring some fun or weird conversations. If anyone would be interested in it being revived, you can leave a message on my profile.
 

Uwu_Oocoo2

Joy is in video games and colored pencils
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Well guys, it's been (more than) a week! Discussion on the previous question is now closed, unless there's something you really want to add!


When I closed this thread I hadn't planned on starting it back up again, but I've been considering it for a while and since there seems to be some interest, let's give it a shot! Let's start super smartly by doing a what-if that's a good concept but kinda hard to respond to-

What if Ganondorf wasn't "born" in the traditional sense, but was actually made by Kotake and Koume with magic in hopes of seizing rule over the gerudo?
 

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