Your Opinion on Emulation

[Michael Heide]

It could be considered less-illegal being that the punishment is less severe, or that the action is not as persecuted.

Not really. The police and the FBI might have other priorities, but "less illegal" is like "a bit pregnant". There is no gray area.

In Kentucky, its technically illegal to carry an ice cream in your back pocket. Do you think there are people here going to jail for such things? No.

On the other hand, that might have something to do with nobody carrying ice cream in their back pocket. Because it melts. And ruins your clothes. And the police might not follow up on this because nobody's property got stolen or damaged (except for your pants), and they have to catch murderers and the like.

So what if its illegal as long as no one cares is basically what I am saying.

But the game developers do care. Nintendo does care, as evidenced by the link provided by MrLuigi. The ice cream vendor won't complain when you put ice cream in you back pocket, as long as you pay for that ice cream. When you don't pay for the games, then of course Nintendo will complain.

If you want to be a type that says, "OH I'm just too good to do anything illegal. Don't wanna get in trouble and do something "bad" because these other people say its bad so I'm just gonna listen to them", then that's fine.

It has nothing to do with what others say. It has everything to do with what my moral compass tells me. Deep within, we both know that stealing is wrong. That has nothing to do with what others say. You are taking money out of another man's pocket. In the case of emulation, you do it figuratively, but the developer still has a smaller paycheck because of your actions. And no farfetched ice cream comparison will change that. Stealing isn't wrong because it's the law. It is the law because it's wrong.

And so is stealing food from a store, regardless of if you are starving to death or not.

Yes. Of course stealing to keep yourself from starving to death is illegal. But at least I can understand your motives when you do that. Stealing to play an old game you're too cheap to buy on the Virtual Console or in its original form on ebay or at Gamestop is a different thing altogether. Because that act doesn't keep you alive.

Making it "okay" by saying "Oh, well he's starving to death so its cool, let him steal", is just the same as saying "Well ya know these games are pretty old... They've made their money, doesn't really matter if we have a way to get em for free". Same deal.

Uh... no, it's not.
Look, I'm a huge fan of the original Tron. And I've been looking forward to watching the sequel ever since it was announced. In the US, the film is out already. Over here in Germany, we have to wait an additional three weeks before it hits the theaters. Now the film's budget was 170 million dollars. According to Boxofficemojo, it's already grossed $246,784,368. Disney made their money back. Now if I had a rare medical condition where I would die if I didn't see that movie, I would search the net for a divx version, because I know it is out there. And by your logic, it's perfectly excusable. But if I watch a pirated copy instead of watching the film in a movie theater,
a) Disney would make less money than they would if I went to the theater. Which would decrease the possibility of another sequel (which I would like to see).
b) Theater ownders would make less money than they would if I went to the theater. Now I don't know how it is in your neck of the woods, but Cologne has lost about half of its movie theaters in the last decade or so. I don't like that trend, and I don't want to support it. Especially because it wouldn't just be the theater owner. The ticket vendor would lose his job. So would the guy at the popcorn stand. Or the one who cleans up after the show. Or the little old lady that scrubs the men's room. And
c) I will have a guilty conscience about all of this, preventing me from truly enjoying the movie. Not because anyone says that it's wrong. But because it is wrong.

Same thing with video games. You don't just harm a greedy faceless corporation. You're harming the developers of the game (who depend on royalties to put their kids through college). You're harming the stores that sell physical copies of the game you steal, and all of their employees. You're screwing with statistics like the official sales charts, thereby making it less likely that they will make a sequel.

Now I know that I alone won't make a difference, and neither will you. I won't singlehandedly save the gaming industry, and you won't destroy it on your own. But it's the whole mentality that offends me. And when you or FierceDeity are actually promoting illegal downloads as a perfectly reasonable thing to do, I can't stay silent. Maybe I can convince only one more guy that doing the wrong thing is wrong than you can convince people that if nobody looks, why not take money out of the cash register while you're at it, because you won't get caught and you only hurt a faceless corporation that charges too much money anyway. But that one guy will be worth it.

 

[Michael Heide]

It seems you're taking emulating way too seriously.

It seems you don't take intellectual property seriously enough. While I wouldn't be as drastic as MrLuigi, that could indeed become a problem later on.

I'm not promoting it, I'm just saying that I emulate old games that I can't get because my family has no money to spare

I don't have money to spare. In fact, I'm very deep in debt. But I don't download pirated games. Sure, I would like to play tons of games I keep hearing great things about, but either I get the money somehow (by selling my stuff, for example) or I wait until the game gets cheaper. Yes, I would like to finally be able to play Super Mario RPG, but I don't have the money. So I can't play it. It's as easy as that. I mean, I've waited 14 years to play it so far (since it was never released in Europe until it hit the Virtual Console a while back), waiting a few more months won't kill me. Sometimes, you have to be patient.

I don't care what the "Law" says.

Then you shouldn't be offended by what MrLuigi said.

 

[MrLuigi]

But stealing games people worked years on doesn't bother your mind?

 

[mooper11]

Originally posted by FierceDiety
Because the people who are enforcing the rules on this forum care. But the people enforcing the law in real life don't care

Well don't come cryin to us when you have to pay some heavy fines for emulating

 

[MrLuigi]

I'm out of the argument.

Excuses, piles of them.

 

[Michael Heide]

Also, I'd like to know. Would you care if it wasn't games? What about music? I'm sure you've downloaded a song from the internet once, it's the exact same thing.

I've downloaded music years ago, when I was in my early twenties. Then I stopped, for the reasons I've already told in this thread. If I like a song or an album or a band, then that band deserves to get paid if I listen to their music. It's far beyond common courtesy, it's my godforsaken duty. I mean, if I recorded a song, I would be pretty angry if thousands of people downloaded it through torrents or rapidshare or whatever while I sit at home eating nothing but rice with soy sauce.

I believe you took that out of context. I meant that I didn't care what the law specifically says about me emulating.

Oh, so you're cherry-picking which laws you care about? Interesting concept. So... does everyone else have the same right to decide which laws they follow and which they ignore? Or do they have to follow the questionable code of honor you came up with? Just curious. Could somebody steal your money, because they just don't care about what the law specifically says about them stealing from you? Or do you get to say which laws one should care about? In which case I'd kindly ask you to keep the law about not killing my grandma please. I kinda like her.

 

[MrLuigi]

I'm half your age, do you expect me or anyone of my generation to have the same morals as you do?

Back in the argument.

I'm in your age range and I do.

Out of argument.

 

[Nicole]

I'm half your age, do you expect me or anyone of my generation to have the same morals as you do?

Hate to break it to you, but I do. I find most of your posts quite amusing, but I think you should be more open-minded to people's opinions on this thread. Most people are against emulating, and they have valid reasons for it.

Oh, so you're cherry-picking which laws you care about? Interesting concept. So... does everyone else have the same right to decide which laws they follow and which they ignore? Or do they have to follow the questionable code of honor you came up with? Just curious. Could somebody steal your money, because they just don't care about what the law specifically says about them stealing from you? Or do you get to say which laws one should care about? In which case I'd kindly ask you to keep the law about not killing my grandma please. I kinda like her.

You also seem to be avoiding this. Michael came up with a very good point here. I think you're being a bit immature, by posting things like "No one cares, I won't get caught," etc., etc. Just a thought: If you murder someone, and no one catches you, you don't get punished, is it still okay?

 

[korp]

I've never emulated before but it seems really cool because I mean besides finding one online, where am I going to find an old game that I really want to play again.

That reminds me, I was actually planning on downloading Super Mario 64.

I've pirated music AND movies and no one cares really. So I'm going to do it regardless. Unless the law enforcement really starts cracking down on these kinds of things, I'm going to do what I want.

 

[Nicole]

It wasn't what I meant, that's why I was avoiding it. No, it isn't okay. Emulating is not as serious as murder is. I'm just defending my opinion because I think that you people are acting as if me emulating old games is evil, really immoral, and I should be sent to jail or something.

That's fine. As long as your not ignoring other people's valid opinions. I understand you have your own opinion about emulation. And the analogy I used was the only thing I could think of, but it concerns the same principles. I actually think it is okay to emulate as long as 1) You don't sell the copies 2) You don't give out or trade the copies. I believe it's perfectly okay as long as it is for your own personal use. It's like taping a movie on TV if you don't have a DVR. It's okay as long as you don't make a profit.

 

[Michael Heide]

Emulating is not as serious as murder is.

That's what you say. But why should anyone care what you say?

 

[Nicole]

Um. No. The fact is that emulating isn't as serious as murder. I believe this to be a fact. It doesn't matter to me if people don't care what I say.

It's true, that's the only analogy I could come up with; Please, guys, just respect each other's opinions. This could escalate and I'd prefer if it didn't.

 

[Random Person]

I have come back and I'm seeing... many different things.

First off, the "why should anyone care" argument is pretty... well... not well thought out. I understand why Michael said it, he was trying to make a point. Still, from both sides when a decent point is thrown out, especially dealing with points like this in morality, the "who cares?" isn't going to work.

Second. I don't think we're talking about whether something is right or wrong anymore. I think we're talking about where one's conscious is. FD has admitted that this is a "crime" and it is "wronging" someone in a sense, he is just saying it's not registering to him as "wrong" which would mean his conscious (yes the jiminy cricket kind) is different than Michael's. And if something doesn't make your conscious feel guilty, then to you, it isn't wrong. That's a factor of how one grew up.

Now then, I already said where I stand, but I'll just point out somethings your arguements have shown me.

Michael, I understand where you're coming from completely. Maybe it's because we have a similar sense in morality but everything you said to me seemed well thought out. Though we disagree on few things, even with those I see where you're coming from and it makes sense. The only thing was the comment about why should anyone care about what FD said. Like I said, I know you didn't mean it literally and you were trying to make a point but I think the point could have been better explained.

FD, I must say, you aren't convincing me at all. Everything you're saying is stemming from an excuse.
"Well... I know it's wrong, but I won't get caught."
"Well... I know it's wrong, but I don't have enough money."
"Well... I know it's wrong, but people my age don't care if it is."
Etc.
When dealing with morality, you can't say "Well... I know it's wrong but..." The statement ends at "I know it's wrong." In morality, if it's wrong, you don't do it. Period. Yes, there are things with grey areas where it gets complicated, but thus far this isn't talking about that. And just because I want to sound deep, I'm going to use an analogy.

Morality is like multiplication. If you have a series of multiplications, no matter how many positive numbers you have, one negative number makes the result of the whole thing negative.

If you do something wrong, no matter how many positives you stick in there, in the end, you know it was wrong.

 

[MrLuigi]

I clicked the thread's link just because I liked Random Person's video about "them".

 

[AlaskaAce1996]

FD by saying you don't care that it's illegal you present the image that you have a disregard for the law. You may want to take people's opinions less personally because this is more of a flame war rather than a thread on the legality of emulation.